What would have happened?

[Khurrle]

While out at the range Saturday, I was using some 9mm factory reloads that came from Washougal River Cartridge Company and came across a cartridge that just didn't look right. I couldnt quite place it at first glance but then I realized that it was a .380 casing with the bullet barely seated. This was my first outing with my new Shield 9mm.

What would have happened if I hadn't noticed it?

 

[Rastoff]

The gun would have fired and you wouldn't have noticed anything. As long as the overall length is the same as the other rounds, it would have been fine.

The .380 is basically a 9mm short. They are intended for smaller guns and have less recoil because of a lighter charge. The bullet is still the same diameter (.357"). So, a 9mm will fit in the case, just not as deep as the .380 would have been seated.

 

[Khurrle]

It is about a mm or two shorter than the other 9mm but I don't think its much shorter if at all than my carry rounds.

 

[ronnie gore]

380

the cartridge would be held against the breach face by the extractor and most likely would have fired, but this is not a good thing to be doing knowingly. but I have loaded some 115 9mm bullets into 380 cases when I still had a 380 just lighten the load.

 

[blujax01]

Good eye! If I am using any commercial range ammunition, be it remanufactured or first run, I alway examine it closely. There are far too many pictures of wonky Winchester White Box ammo floating around the Net not to.

 

[Rastoff]

It's a slippery slope here. If it's shorter than the other rounds from the same box, don't use it. You cannot compare it to rounds from other boxes.

Take the same amount of powder, cram it into a smaller space and you get more pressure. That pressure increases at an exponential rate. In a situation like you have, set back becomes critical. You can't compare it to other rounds because they have different load recipes.

What happened is a .380 case somehow got in the 9mm production line. Because all the dimensions are the same, except case length, it went through without anyone noticing. Because it's shorter, I'll bet the crimp isn't that great. A not as tight crimp would reduce the amount of pressure built, but there's no way to know how much.

Would the round you have been too much pressure in your gun? I have no idea. The only way to tell is to fire it. It probably would have been OK. Since you caught it, why take chances?

I had a similar thing happen to me. I found a .45GAP in a group of .45ACP rounds. It fired fine, but felt a little stronger. I probably should have just disassembled it, but I didn't and nothing happened.

 

[handgunner356]

If their quality control isn't catching the wrong case I'd be worried about what else they might miss.

 

[Hillbilly77]

An M&P 9MM will chamber and fire a .380.
If I am correct, they are both the same diameter.
You may notice less recoil, and the action won't cycle, but the gun will fire it.

A while back a forum member posted that he had inadvertently fired a bunch of .380's out of his M&P9. It didn't hurt anything but his pride (but not so much that he wouldn't admit his mistake here).

 

[Bkreutz]

The 380 case is also slightly smaller in the head area. If I miss a 380 case when I'm handloading on my 650 the 380 case will pop out of the shell holder at the priming station. The 9mm case is the same diameter at the case mouth but tapers out toward the head. I remember reading (on this forum) about someone who had loaded a mag with 380's and shot the whole mag through his M&P but I'm a bit dubious. If the round wasn't held in place by the extractor, then it would have gone an extra mm into the chamber and would have a good chance of not firing, and if it did fire, there would be a good chance of not extracting. I had a strange event last week, I was loading a mag during one of my practice sessions and something didn't feel right, I unloaded the mag and found a 38 super comp round (9x23). I figure someone was trying to be nice at my last match last Tuesday night, found it lying on the floor, figured it was one of mine from a "unload and show clear, and dropped it into my ammo bucket. Wouldn't have been a problem since a 4mm longer case would not have allowed the slide into battery but it was long enough to drag on the mag. (initially I thought I had some grit in the mag).

 

[Hillbilly77]

I remember reading (on this forum) about someone who had loaded a mag with 380's and shot the whole mag through his M&P but I'm a bit dubious. If the round wasn't held in place by the extractor, then it would have gone an extra mm into the chamber and would have a good chance of not firing, and if it did fire, there would be a good chance of not extracting.

I also remember that thread - that was the one I was referencing in my post above.
If you remember, in the post he said that the action didn't cycle. He had to manually rack the slide each time.


EDIT - Here is the thread in question:
http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-...d-entire-magazine-380s-through-my-m-p-9c.html

 

[Khurrle]

See I'd be willing to bet it's not a 380 charge but a full 9mm charge in a smaller case. I definitely won't fire it but between that and the first box of ammo I had from them experiencing nearly a 50% failure to fire rate I doubt I'll ever use their ammo again.

 

[Rastoff]

See I'd be willing to bet it's not a 380 charge but a full 9mm charge in a smaller case. I definitely won't fire it but between that and the first box of ammo I had from them experiencing nearly a 50% failure to fire rate I doubt I'll ever use their ammo again.

I don't blame you. Call the company and ask for a refund. If nothing else it may help them fix their QC issues.

 

[GregoryJ]

I'm glad the OP caught the different round before firing it. I am not certain I would have and this is why I don't shoot reloads.

 

[Saudade]

I buy a lot reloads. Guess I better take a closer look when I load them!

Thanks for the lesson.

 

[Culina]

I am pretty sure it would have went off, after that, best case you wouldn't have know, worste case the head could have ruptured and you might have ended up with some damage.

Several years ago I took a freind shooting. I made the mistake of bringing a 9mm and .40S&W to the range. He was loading magazines and put a 9mm cartridge in the .40 S&W magazine. I was the "lucky" one who ended up firing it in my Glock 23, it went off, cycled the slide and loaded another round. It felt different and sounded funny so I stopped shooting and made safe the pistol until I figured it out. It didn't take long to find the de-formed 9mm shell. There was no damage to anything so I seperated the ammo and we kept shooting. To this day, I never bring 9mm's and 40's to the range on the same day.

 

[Doug M.]

See I'd be willing to bet it's not a 380 charge but a full 9mm charge in a smaller case. I definitely won't fire it but between that and the first box of ammo I had from them experiencing nearly a 50% failure to fire rate I doubt I'll ever use their ammo again.

*
This is what would scare me. Someone else noticed this possibility, too. It is far more likely that the .380 case went through the 9mm line and got loaded with what is probably way too much powder for the shorter case. The results might have been a lot more exciting than you want to know. I think you made the right choice here, and it is a good thing that you were paying attention.

Going cheap on ammo is a losing proposition. Saving a few bucks, then blowing up a gun and maybe being hurt, is not a place to which you want to travel. At best, the ammo won't work as well, giving you a skewed and negative impression of the gun for no good reason.

For the last 10-15 years, I have been saving up to buy ammo, then buying a lot at a time so that I save money by getting volume discounts. Getting good ammo that way is workable, and beats the heck out of a bad experience.

 

[Rastoff]

This is what would scare me. Someone else noticed this possibility, too. It is far more likely that the .380 case went through the 9mm line and got loaded with what is probably way too much powder for the shorter case. The results might have been a lot more exciting than you want to know. I think you made the right choice here, and it is a good thing that you were paying attention.

I agree that it was probably a .380 case that got in with the 9mm process. Therefore, it was probably a 9mm amount of powder that got in there too. However, Because the case is the same diameter and the bullet was only seated to the same depth it would have been in the 9mm case, the actual volume under the bullet would have been the same. So, I don't think it would have been an over pressure situation.

Still, it's wise to play it safe when it comes to ammo.

 

[Kanewpadle]

An indoor range I go to has had nothing but problems with this brand. Low quality ammo that they sell for new prices.

No thanks.

 

[Khurrle]

I emailed them when I originally had the FTF issues but they never replied to me. The last time I checked their site there was no phone number listed. Like I said, I'll not be using their ammo again.

 

[dav2no1]

I have never had a problem with their ammo. It's one of the few reloaded ammo I would use, other than ones I had reloaded. It's made somewhere near me in the state. usually pretty good stuff...

**Contacted Brad to help you..he is my local dealer**