what would you consider to be realistic effective accuracy"

The first thing to do and teach is awareness. Most people have the situational awareness of a rock. Many are even worse because their face is in their phone, or they wear earbuds (or even worse, the great big headsets). I don't even do that in the gym, and almost ever at home (which is the only place I go that is potentially secure enough for that).

Then - looking at and assessing the situation around you. Is there someone standing around store doorway when the armored trucks pulls up? It's probably someone waiting for their spouse to drive up and get them - but if you assume that, you're an idiot. Work from the position that it is a bad guy, and LEAVE. I have no interest in being around when the truck pulls up to Safeway with the cash, pharmacy delivery, etc. If I am walking the dog and see LE activity, I go a different direction.

One needs to know why one is justified in shooting. Remember that self-defense is preemptive. Observing things consistent with threat behavior is important. Placement is vital. The actual target areas on a human are as point out above, not what is shown on many targets. A horizontal line through the nipples (except on the really saggy) is the bottom; another through the armpits is the top, and basically straight down between the two at or slightly inside the armpits.

Keep yourself in good shape - the ability to perceive, move, and the like is often driven by physical condition. If you are disabled like my wife - plan around that. My eyes suck. I have worn glasses since I was 7. For a long time, with glasses or contacts, I could see well and shoot real well. Now, my eyes do not adjust quickly due to age and developing cataracts. (That surgery is in my future - just had an eye exam.) Day in, day out, I carry a G33 with XS Big Dot sights - I expect most threats to be close and sudden. If I leave town (my usual life is a short commute to/from work, maybe a stop at the PO or store), I carry something with a red dot. I need that to see and shoot at a reasonable speed according to my testing at the range.

A really good shot, young and well trained (shooting is a perishable skill, and accord to USMC research done for Force Recon and others of that ilk, after SEVEN DAYS the loss is obvious) should be able to keep all shots on an index card at 7 or more yards, shooting pretty fast. Someone real good can do that at 25. Not me. I can't see that far.

As a practical matter, if you can hit from the holster one (first) shot on the 3x5 at seven yards on demand, you should be in decent shape. Three shots as fast as you can from the holster should also be on that index card.

There is a lot more than goes into this stuff than simple marksmanship. Tactics matter. If you are getting good hits on demand with a .38 SWC at standard velocity, or good 9mm service ammo, you are probably of adequate skill.

Cops don't have a choice; they generally have to answer up on the call. If they are not taking a rifle to any call when there is a predictor of violence, their training and command personnel suck. Security guards are stuck with their route, but generally are armed only for self-defense.

The rest of us should be trying to be somewhere else when there seems to be excrement headed for the air circulation device.
 
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I'm not a competitive shooter nor do I shoot that much. I'm thinking 10 rnds on a regular 8 1/2 x 11 sheet of paper at 15 yds in 20 seconds would be acceptable for the unwashed masses. Might take some awhile to get there but shooting with bystanders in the area it needs to be a little more refined. Just my 2 centavos.

There are probably plenty of LEO's that can't do that. :(
 
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To me accuracy depends on the gun, the distance and the circumstances.
I practice for what I consider realistic self defense distances to save my life.
Five yards for a small gun and ten yards for a normal size gun.

First is a M&P Bodyguard 380.
Second is a M&P EZ 9mm.
 

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My standard is an 8 inch paper plate at 7 yards with a defensive pistol, 100 yards with a rifle.
You should be able to put most of them in there, as fast as you can shoot.
 
38 special - 10 shots inside 2" at 25 yards .

22 LR - 10 shots inside 1" at 25 yards

45 acp - 10 shots in 3" at 25 yards .

At least those are my limitations
Gary

That would be some very good shooting, as I get to compete in Bullseye competitions that military and Olympic team members attend and High Masters mostly shoot about 2.5" with 22LR and 3.5" with 45 ACP at 25 yards. (Inspirational target results to look at during score-and-repair) Only a few can hammer a 1" 22LR on a Reduced Slow Fire target at 25 yards.
 
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"My standard is an 8 inch paper plate at 7 yards with a defensive pistol, 100 yards with a rifle.
You should be able to put most of them in there, as fast as you can shoot."

Id agree that's a rather realistic ,
and for most of us hard to achieve expectation,
when you put

"as fast as you can shoot."
in the requirements,
but Id put in the though process and idea mix.. I've always thought

"ONLY HITS COUNT"
so slowing the pace just a bit,
if it allows a significant increase in the hit ratio, is well worth the effort.

my favorite competition, because its both fast, and obvious whos winning to spectators is bowling pin shoots where they place 5 bowling pins on a plywood/ saw horse table,
that's about 3 ft square with a 2" lip around the circumference
the object is to knock all five pins off the table, usually with a handgun as fast as possible usually at 7 yards, but 25 yard black powder rifle bowling pin matches are a real grin to watch and compete in also.
rules and distances vary with the range or match but its generally a contest where, a range officer blows a whistle, you shoot against both a timer and a competitor, you can shoot and reload if required until one competitor clears his table, of pins
winner takes on the next competitor , until the fastest times recorded/ or the most wins are recorded
again
rules and distances vary with the range or match
 
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Don't active shooters MOVE?

I have yet to see a comment about drills involving moving targets except references to some practical shooting matches that may include them. Drills with a stationary shooter taking shots at stationary targets are what most of us know, but consider adding moving targets and or having to move before taking shots at targets partially concealed behind no shoot targets.
 
I am sure many of you have seen and used this handy handgun shooting aid.

Attached is a black and white with Rt & Lt Hand photo of the shooting aid. I added this photo so it could be printed by anyone who would like it.

Also attached is a handgun shooting aid I used as a target many decades ago. This was shot standing with single right hand.

I shot this with a custom Browning Hi-Power, 1975 vintage. It had a Smith J-frame rear sight and a Smith corresponding J frame front sight. Frame was Armoloy coated, slide was blue with glass bead finish on the top. Internas were tuned.

This shooting aid is 4.25" x 5.5" with a 1.5" blue bullseye

These were printed and handed out by this local gun store & indoor shooting range. This shooting range was the first indoor shooting range in Arizona.

Unfortunately I had to sell this Hi-Power.

I have been looking for it. If anyone has seen it please let me know - I really want it back.
 

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You are right. Most handgun shooters cop out by saying that so and so distance or time limit isn't like the "real world". They never improve and with age they decline like the rest of us. You asked who could shoot better than 6" at 25 yards. I have and pretty much can even do so today, but I have trained under some pretty good instructors and have a pretty hefty handgun competition shooting background. I also have no talent for pistol shooting. It's like anything else, you get what your put into it. BTW all shooting I do is unsupported.
GAmlOLk.jpg
 
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