What Would You Do?

[Frizzman]

I have been trading guns for fun for many years and have never had a bad experience until recently. I guess I have been lucky. I traded a revolver not long ago. The revolver I traded was in proper order because it had been checked by a gunsmith. The gun I received seemed to be OK. I put the one I got away in the safe and forgot about it for awhile. I had some health issues to deal with. I took it out recently and while handling it I found it to have a major problem.

I emailed the guy who traded it to me and explained what happened. He denied knowing there was any problem and recommended a local gunsmith. A couple of emails were exchanged and I just let it go because of other more pressing health issues. He never offered any remedy. I wound up taking it to the gunsmith and found it would take a minimum of $50-$100 to fix and about 10 weeks to get it back. I let the person who traded me the gun know that and I got a "I'm really sorry." reply. There has never been any offer to give my old gun back or help with repair, etc.

Now, the question is should I expect someone to stand behind what they trade to others or is it tough luck if one gets a lemon in a trade? My policy has always been that I will return anything I trade for if it is defective and it was not screwed up by the person who had it. Is that too much to expect of others? Unless one gets a contract saying otherwise do most of you consider it "as is" even if the defect is not caught right away? I may publish negative feedback about this trade but just want to be sure I'm not being unreasonable. Whay is your opinion? What would you do?...Thanks

 

[Frizzman]

I have been trading guns for fun for many years and have never had a bad experience until recently. I guess I have been lucky. I traded a revolver not long ago. The revolver I traded was in proper order because it had been checked by a gunsmith. The gun I received seemed to be OK. I put the one I got away in the safe and forgot about it for awhile. I had some health issues to deal with. I took it out recently and while handling it I found it to have a major problem.

I emailed the guy who traded it to me and explained what happened. He denied knowing there was any problem and recommended a local gunsmith. A couple of emails were exchanged and I just let it go because of other more pressing health issues. He never offered any remedy. I wound up taking it to the gunsmith and found it would take a minimum of $50-$100 to fix and about 10 weeks to get it back. I let the person who traded me the gun know that and I got a "I'm really sorry." reply. There has never been any offer to give my old gun back or help with repair, etc.

Now, the question is should I expect someone to stand behind what they trade to others or is it tough luck if one gets a lemon in a trade? My policy has always been that I will return anything I trade for if it is defective and it was not screwed up by the person who had it. Is that too much to expect of others? Unless one gets a contract saying otherwise do most of you consider it "as is" even if the defect is not caught right away? I may publish negative feedback about this trade but just want to be sure I'm not being unreasonable. Whay is your opinion? What would you do?...Thanks

 

[Texas Star]

Caveat emptor. As true now as when the saying was first used.

That's the main reason why I NEVER buy a gun that I haven't personally examined.

Sorry that you got burned. Your best course is probably just to get the gun fixed. If you really like it, it's only money. But a good gun is a good gun!

Hope that your health is better. God bless you.

T-Star

 

[crofoot629]

Considering the totality of the circumstances……

1) the length of time before you discovered the problem.
2) the relatively small dollar amount involved
3) his unwillingness to pay for the problem

Live and learn and LET IT GO!

There's no payback for you to spin over it.

 

[Jack Flash]

Originally posted by Frizzman:
... I traded a revolver not long ago. ... The gun I received seemed to be OK. I put the one I got away in the safe and forgot about it for awhile. ... I took it out recently and while handling it I found it to have a major problem. ...

Sir:
You are very vague about what kind of time has elapsed. Before I could make much of a judgement, I would have to know if we are talking about days, weeks, months, or ... what?

I think the usual rule of thumb is a three day inspection period. If there are special circumstances, like your health issues, I could see asking the other party to be more flexible, but my goodness, there has to be SOME KIND OF TIME LIMIT, doesn't there?

Crofoot makes a valid point. How much heartburn do you want to invest in a $50 - $100 problem that the other party may well have been ignorant of?

 

[Frizzman]

It was perhaps a month or two. I guess I am just too easy about such things. I guess I am too old fashioned for today's internet scene.

 

[Jack Flash]

If it bothers you that much, why don't you ask him straight out if he will pay for the repairs or undo the deal? He's obviously not going to volunteer to do anything, so it's time to quit hinting around and just come right out and tell him what you want.

 

[BE Mike]

I feel like I know quite a bit about S&W revolvers, but I have unknowingly bought used ones with problems. One I bought sight unseen on the web and the other I bought FTF. Each time I got such a good deal that I was able to fix the problem or have it fixed and still feel like I wasn't burned. Buying a used gun is like buying a used car, except that some used cars come with a limited warranty. I'd just get it fixed and enjoy it.

 

[Frizzman]

I guess I expect too much of people. I had hoped it would have been offered. I would probably just let it go as is if that had at least been done by the other party. The usual cause of conflict is a clash of one's beliefs and values with those of another. Based on what I was taught about ethical behavior I would have offered to do something to remedy the situation. Again, I guess I am a dinosaur...

 

[diamonback68]

If I were him and I hadn't heard from you in reasonable amount of time, say a week or ten days, I would have to assume that you were OK with the transaction and put it behind me.
Now I hear from you two months later that the gun had a problem, when you received it, but during that two months time I have no knowledge of were that gun has been, who has handled it or took it apart and or how many rounds may have been put through it and only now you say the gun was not proper when you received it, two months earlier, I think I would be reluctant to assume any responsiblity too.

Caveat Emptor.

I did buy a 625 one time from a guy at a gunshow that had a serious "push-off" problem. Now that is a serious safety and liability problem. I took it back to him the next day, showed him the problem and he gladly refunded my money.
I would just suck up the $50-100 gunsmith cost and chalk it up to experience an know better next time.

 

[Frizzman]

Yep, caveat emptor indeed. I am just going to let it go. There are more important things to be concerned about. It seems the consensus is that I expect too much. The lesson is I will only trade with people I know from now on who think like I do about such things. Thanks for the responses...

 

[feralmerril]

I am a dinosaur too. You probley have carried it far as you can go without makeing a life mission, small claims etc.
If I had all the money I got screwed out of, stolen from me or flat gave away, another person could retire on it! With me, I have always been too easy, although with my many posts here, most wouldnt suspect that!
But you know what? I am still alive, live comfortable and it hasnt changed my lifes destiney!
I belive in heaven, hell and a day of reconing. I imanage that some day people that purposely skin others will wish they hadnt!
I still cant quit grippeing about my loss,s either though!

 

[Frizzman]

Thanks feralmerril. I guess us "grumpy old guys" have to have something to gripe about. Maybe its just different upbringing and values. Maybe not. I got it off my chest and I feel better. I am a big boy and can take my licks without crying too much...

 

[Noah Zark]

Frizzman:

For what it's worth, I share the same beliefs about honor and integrity as you do. I've stood up when it was right to do so.

However, given the situation as you describe, I share the same feelings as Diamondback68 expressed:

Originally posted by diamonback68:
If I were him and I hadn't heard from you in reasonable amount of time, say a week or ten days, I would have to assume that you were OK with the transaction and put it behind me.
Now I hear from you two months later that the gun had a problem, when you received it, but during that two months time I have no knowledge of were that gun has been, who has handled it or took it apart and or how many rounds may have been put through it and only now you say the gun was not proper when you received it, two months earlier, I think I would be reluctant to assume any responsiblity too . . .

Three days to a week is one thing, but 30 to 60 days is something else. When I sell a firearm it is "as-is", but that doesn't mean I wouldn't stand behind it as I described and represented it. And I don't sell a firearm if there's a problem with it functionally. Cosmetics are photographed and called out in ads.

In this case, IMO you had a responsibility to the seller to respond that you were satisifed after examining the weapon. It is unfortunate that you had pressing health matters that precluded your examining the weapon and responding to the seller with your dissatisfaction in a timely manner.

How would you feel if you were the seller in this situation, with the one slight change that the weapon was in working order when you sold it, and the buyer came back a month or two later? IMO, no seller of a used firearm is required to provide more than a five-day "warranty" period.

JMO, no flame.

Noah

 

[Erich]

I bought a S&W J-frame online last year from a seller on GunBroker. Great guy, had great feedback. He told me that he had considered keeping the gun for himself and I believe him. Said that the action was fine.

When I got the gun, it turned out that some moron had "worked" on it. The action would not detonate primers. I wound up having to change out quite a lot of the internals, as they'd been "worked" over pretty well.

I didn't say a word to the seller: I gave him good feedback for his great conduct during the transaction and his accurate reporting of the observable condition of the revolver. There was no way that he could have known that the revolver was broken short of shooting it (which most used gun dealers do not do) or tearing it apart and examining the innards (which I'm glad most used gun dealers do not attempt. I wound up swapping out a bunch of parts, taking a great deal of my time and quite a decent value-amount of my spare parts. And I'm carrying the working gun today!

Another story: I consigned a Charter Arms to the gun store where I worked back in '89. It had always worked fine for me, but when someone bought it, he brought it back complaining of light-strikes. The store owner paid a gunsmith to do something to it, and the new owner was happy. The store owner then told me about it and I immediately offered to pay for the gunsmith work. He refused, but was happy that I'd offered.

Okay - that's sort of where I'm coming from. I don't know what problems you had, Frizzman, so I don't feel as if I can comment on whether what the guy did was right. I know that I feel that I want a person to be happy with any deal he does with me, but if someone had problems months later, I'd be disinclined to offer to fix them. I understand that your health issues unavoidably delayed your ability to check the gun out, but I think that bad-luck health-related delay has to be attributed to you. And that, to me, is sort of the deciding factor.

So, I'm sort of with Noah on this one. I don't know that anyone's saying that you "expect too much," but I see where the other fellow is coming from on this one. I suspect that I'd very likely do as the other fellow on this one, assuming that I truly did not realize there was a problem (and I wouldn't have traded the gun without full disclosure of any problems of which I was aware - just a bad idea).

I do thank you for bringing up this topic, though, as I think that it's gotten a lot of us to exercise our thoughts a bit on trade ethics and that's not a bad thing to consider from time to time. Also, folks seem to be enjoying discussing the problems - so it's kind of you to share. I hope that the problem wasn't too inconvenient and that you aren't too upset with being out the time and money.

 

[Frizzman]

That's OK I don't take it as a flame. I asked for opinions. It wasn't a "sale" it was what I thought to be a friendly trade between local people. I guess I read too much into that. If its going to be strict "return policy requires...etc" then I would just deal with a local dealer. Again, it seems most think I expected too much. What is done is done. I don't expect more than I got now anyway. Thanks...

 

[feralmerril]

To carry the subject a litte farther off thread, it seems that years ago things were actualy worse than now days. Way back, especialy with horses, it seems that it was a game and "art" of skinning someone on horsetradeing! People that were good at it actualy felt a big pride in it! Maybe I got that from old time movies? Nowdays it seems most dealers are honest maybe because of a lot of competition.
I have to live with myself though.

 

[Denver Dick]

Over the past six years, I've sold (I don't do trades) approximately 12 firearms by running ads on the internet (on forums, not GB or the like). I've never sold a firearm that I had not personally inspected and shot. I am well aware of the condition of the firearm when I ship it. Now, I'm not saying there might not be a wart or two, but if there is I fully disclose the wart, usually with very clear photos. In 80% of the transactions, I've gotten an e-mail from the buyer a day or two after receipt to tell me he's very happy. Some guys never say anything, but I've never had anyone complain.

Since I've fired each firearm I've sold, I've specifically given a 3 day non-firing inspection period. However, if a buyer tells me that he may not be able to inspect the firearm for a week or two (as a guy did once), I give him what he needs. After the inspection period, I go on with life and don't worry about it. If I heard from someone 30 or more days later, I might think he was trying to pull something. But, that's me.

I follow this rule: "Make it clear on the front end of the deal to avoid a fight on the back end."

FWIW

 

[Frizzman]

KKG, That's what I would expect from a dealer in most cases. Frankly, that's why I don't trade with dealers with a couple of exceptions. I have several people I trade with and we all have the expectation that a trade can be reversed if someone winds up with something that turns out to be a lemon. It really discourages one from being tempted to trade off their problems on others. Again, I think the expectations I had were not shared by the other guy. I tried going out of my usual circle and that's what happened. Another lesson in life for me. Too bad because I was testing to see if I wanted to invite him into the group of traders. I am glad nobody I normally trade with got stuck.

 

[beemerrider]

I feel for your situation and had something similar regarding a Forum member's ethics. I consulted Lee on the situation and received excellent advice. I can't speak for him, however I think you are best served to take the high road. You did the right thing. It's impossible to know if the other party was dealing honestly or not, and the passage of time clouds things more. Learn from this experience and don't wave from your own ethics and standards. Doing the right thing always has it's rewards. Feel good about the person you are and put this in the rearview mirror.