I've sent LESTERT357 the best picture I could get. The straight top half of a "5" is clearly visible but the rest of the number is somewhat distorted by what may have been an over stamp. At a casual glance it looks like a "5". Don't the serial# and the Registration number have to match in the factory record?
What's my barrel length on this Reg. Magnum?
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Supadupa69
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Well there's a new bookmark for me. Thanks!
I've sent LESTERT357 the best picture I could get. The straight top half of a "5" is clearly visible but the rest of the number is somewhat distorted by what may have been an over stamp. At a casual glance it looks like a "5". Don't the serial# and the Registration number have to match in the factory record?
The invoice is for REG. #1705. REG. #1706 has a 6-inch barrel and a McGivern front sight. I knew someone would ask so I checked it out. The order form filled out by S&W has #1705 clearly written on it. I will post it later today.
Bill
Bill
Here is the picture of the REG# from the OP. Based on this picture and the above information from Dr. Cross I have listed the gun as serial # 49820/REG# 1705 in the database…..
Terry...the serial number and the REG number are both correct for this .357 Magnum with a 5 1/2-inch barrel.
Bill
Bill
The S&W order form for REG. #1705 filled out by S&W after the order was received from Edw. K. Tryon Company. The registered number is written on the lower left hand corner of the form.
Bill
Bill
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StrawHat
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StrawHat
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Dave,
December, 1935 had to be an early one. What is the registration number? One or two digits?
Kevin
RM Vivas
US Veteran
The Magnum was shipped from S&W's plant on Stockbridge Street (letter is incorrect). See invoice below. There are four other documents concerning your .357 Magnum, namely, the order sent to S&W by Edward K. Tryon Co., Philadelphia, PA, for one .357 Magnum with a 5 1/2-inch barrel, the S&W order form filled out by company after the order was received, a letter to S&W from Frank Mitsch asking a new certificate be issued to Abe Hepner, Gary, IN the new owner of the Magnum, and the response from S&W stating a new certificate has been issued.
Bill
There's a very important caveat here that I think is not discussed much, and that is that a Registration Certificate is not a final and definitive proof of a Magnums ownership or configuration.
This example shows that certificates were re-issued once a gun entered the used gun market. I've seen a few letters between DBW and various purchasers where they will mail in their old Registration Certificate and ask a new one be issued in the new owners name.
Where this becomes especially interesting is that on occassion a purchaser of a second hand RM will send it back to the factory to have the barrel changed to a different length and a new certificate issued reflecting the new barrel length.
Fast forward 80 years and you find an RM in your local shop with a 4 inch barrel. You get a factory letter that states it left the factory as an 8.75" barrel. Unless you do a deep dive on the document side, you're going to figure that the gun was re-done by someone who had a spare 4 inch barrel lying about and the value takes a hit.
What actually happened was the initial purchaser who bought it as an 8.75" gun sold it to Deputy Smith who wanted a shorter barrel to use it as his on-duty piece. Deputy Smith sends it to S&W and gets it re-barreled to 4 inch. Original purchaser sends back his certificate and a note saying Deputy Smith is the new owner. The gun gets re-barrelled to a 4 inch, a new certificate issued in Smiths name describing the gun as 4 inch BUT the factory shipping records still identify the gun as a 8.75".
The theory was that a new Certificate would not be issued unless the old one were turned in, this way there would not be two Certificates floating around for the same gun. I do not doubt that there were instances of Certificates being lost or destroyed and new ones issued and then the old missing one turning up.
If one is paying anything near what current market value id for an RM, it absolutely pays to do a DEEP dive on the records and get every scrap there is out there. Don't stop at S&W; once you know who it went to, start grabbing newspaper articles and the like. Sometimes the chain of custody is pretty clear and sometimes it is a real byzantine path that can lead you to some wild places. I know!
Best,
RM Vivas
Your comment about the original Registration Certificate not being the last word on the ownership seems spot on. With reference to my Reg.#1705, a Mr. Frank Mitsch (the original owner?) asked for his Registration Certificate to be transferred to a Mr. Abe Hepner of Gary, Indiana. Turns out that Mr. Hepner, who died in 1970, lived about 50 miles away from me. I bought #1705 in 1973 from a local gun dealer who undoubtedly obtained the RM, not long after Mr. Hepner's passing, probably from his family. I now know probably all the owners of this gun since it was shipped in December 1936. I'm doing more research, but it appears that a few scraps of info has revealed quite a lot of history!
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StrawHat
Member
Dave,
Thank you for refreshing my memory with that tidbit.
So, during the Depression, some say the height of that era, 724 gun wise individuals were able to find the $$ to buy the new revolver! Kind of makes the RM the Apple Watch of the 1930s.
Interesting!
Kevin
RM Vivas
US Veteran
I can tell you that an astonishing number of 'swells' were amongst the first purchasers in 1935. Not only that, quite a few of them bought more than one. There was one fellow who was probably the most enthusiastic of RM purchasers who bought at least 8-9 and gave them away as gifts as well as directing his %1 peers to place their own orders directly. Like many other early RM purchasers, he was a man of means at the top of his game in business.
The really interesting thing about the first years purchasers are that while it is true that many were men of means, a surprising number of average Joes also bought a very expensive gun in the midst of the depression.
I was discussing this with one of my professors whose field is crime and law enforcement of that era and he made an interesting observation: what can be inferred from a Sheriffs Deputy in East Jesus, KY who can afford to blow 1.5-2 weeks pay on a revolver? Certainly he could be a straight arrow who just wants the best gun going and is willing to save and scrimp to get one...... or is he using his 'tip' money?
To be fair however, it seems like quite a number went out the door at the discounted rate offered to NRA, USRA, LE and military rates which is rather logical when you think about it; a man who has the experience and taste to appreciate an RM is the sort of man who takes the practice of arms quite seriously and would very naturally be a member of one of these groups.
I was never really an RM guy but the more I look into them and their history and the folks who acquired them.......
Best,
RM Vivas
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I would like to emphasize much of the information discussed in this thread would not be available if it weren't for the project to digitize and index the records of S&W from 1920 through 1967. This project was funded by the S&W Historical Foundation. A good reason for collectors to join and support this organization.
Bill
Bill
It's a damn fine gun whatever the barrel length is. Congrats to the owner.
