Nice shorter barreled pre-lock unfluted 610, eventually I'd like to acquire one.
What’s so great about 10 mm?
- Thread starter Plinkasaurusrex
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Nice shorter barreled pre-lock unfluted 610, eventually I'd like to acquire one.
My 57 nickeled 6" 41 Magnum is nice but I'd rather have a M58, or M57 4", or M657 4", or a 41 Magnum Mountain Gun. The 6" would be great for hunting but I don't hunt.
I'd like to add a 610 4" pre-lock unfluted as 'jughed440' shows.
I reload 10mm/40S&W so I can reload to mild levels as 'pistol cycling' isn't required with a revolver. Sort of like 38 special in a 357 Magnum revolver.
I'd like to add a 610 4" pre-lock unfluted as 'jughed440' shows.
I reload 10mm/40S&W so I can reload to mild levels as 'pistol cycling' isn't required with a revolver. Sort of like 38 special in a 357 Magnum revolver.
Texas S&W Shooter
Member
Send the cylinder out to Mark at Pinnacle Precision and you'll have a 10mm. Magnum the equivalent of the .41 Mag.
I did.
Texas S&W Shooter
Member
Send the cylinder out to Mark at Pinnacle Precision and you'll have a 10mm. Magnum the equivalent of the .41 Mag.
I did.
I did.
IT"S GREAT..........Because I like it.
I'm not saying one way or another except that if you want a 10, get the 10.
As for myself, I don't have a need or want for one. I have a number of 357's, 45 colts and 44 magnums plus I hand-load. As I can power up and down as I please, the many niches in between like 9mm, .41's, 10mm, get sort of overshadowed. I don't use things like 38 specials in my 357's. I have 38's for those. I do use speed loaders so moon-clips, I don't know. I'm not sure if it matters that much at my age. If I were to add something to my line-up, I would probably get a 460. I'd keep standard loadings for the 460 but power down for the 454 or 45 Colt equivalents using 460 shells.
I would however like a 1911 in 10mm. I have 45 ACPs and 9mms. I like single stacks so I'd be in it for the power factor over the 45 and not so much carrying capacities. 99.9% of our wildlife isn't armor plated including the bears. There is however the slim possibility of a moose.
As for myself, I don't have a need or want for one. I have a number of 357's, 45 colts and 44 magnums plus I hand-load. As I can power up and down as I please, the many niches in between like 9mm, .41's, 10mm, get sort of overshadowed. I don't use things like 38 specials in my 357's. I have 38's for those. I do use speed loaders so moon-clips, I don't know. I'm not sure if it matters that much at my age. If I were to add something to my line-up, I would probably get a 460. I'd keep standard loadings for the 460 but power down for the 454 or 45 Colt equivalents using 460 shells.
I would however like a 1911 in 10mm. I have 45 ACPs and 9mms. I like single stacks so I'd be in it for the power factor over the 45 and not so much carrying capacities. 99.9% of our wildlife isn't armor plated including the bears. There is however the slim possibility of a moose.
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SuperMan
Member
...435 grains...isn't that enough? Only gun I can think of that typically has a heavier load is a .458 Winchester...ever shoot one...you don't want to....
A good pump action shotgun is a) cheap b) rugged c) points fast d) compact...and when the bear is within "feet" do you really think anyone uses their sights...
Bob
Well Plink, did you end up getting it? You never responded on which iteration of the 610 it was or the asking price. I've been following some 610s as well as other 10mm revolvers on GB lately because I'd like to add one to the stable and convert it to 10mm Magnum. Of three recently completed auctions, all revolvers being in very good condition and with box, tools, and paperwork here are the results:
Revolver 1: 610 no dash 6.5" (original run) went for $1576
1991 Smith & Wesson 610 NO DASH 10mm Stainless 6.5" *1 OF 4,560 EVER MADE* - Revolvers at GunBroker.com : 891489988
Revolver 2: 610-1 6.5" MIM parts, pre-lock went for $1341
Pre Lock Smith and Wesson 610-1 Classic 10mm Auto 6" BBL w/ Blue Case - Revolvers at GunBroker.com : 892818497
Revolver 3: 610-3 6.5" MIM parts, internal lock went for $1325
1998 Smith Wesson 610-3 10mm Stainless 6.5" *LIMITED PRODUCTION RUN* - Revolvers at GunBroker.com : 891339623
Mike_Fontenot
Member
The 10mm round is a good cartridge, but it's not the equivalent of the .41 mag. It's the equivalent of the .357 mag.
The 10mm Magnum, which Tex was referring to, is darn close.
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Loyaljeeper
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That's not true. It's no 41mag but it isn't, in general, the equivalent of most 357 mag. For decades the standard 357 mag was a 158gr bullet at 1250fps in a 4" revolver. A 5" 10mm auto shooting a standard 180gr bullet is 1250 fps. A 4" 10mm revolver should be the same. That means you have a 10% heavier bullet, with 10% more cross sectional density, traveling the same 1250fps. This is not even a nuclear boutique load. Federal's 10mm loads are neutered to 40s&w power levels. Remington, Sig, and Winchester get a little closer to the original Norma loads of 180gr@ 1200 plus. Speer's new 10mm is a little weak with 200gr @ 1100. Boutique 10mm loads can reach close to 1400fps with 170-180 grain bullets.
I have shot more 10mm ammo than many of you guys have seen on shelves. My 3" 10mm revolver hits plates harder than my 3" 357 mags and it recoils more.
uncleted327
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It is absolutely true. At it's best the 10mm is the equivalent of a good 357 Magnum. Underwood makes the hottest ammo I've found in either caliber and they have both 180 and 125 grain 357 loads that deliver more energy than any of their 10mm options in any weight. If you find a 10mm load that can outdo their stated 125 grain 1700fps and 800 ftlbs then you can back up your claim. Until then its unsubstantiated opinion...
Mike_Fontenot
Member
I've never heard of 10mm magnum. Underwood doesn't list it. S&W's description of the 610 doesn't say anything about 10mm Magnum. But the above posters have apparently seen it. And I guess they've established that the 610 can handle it if the cylinder holes are elongated.
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Loyaljeeper
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I knew someone would quote the ft/lbs of energy, the most worthless numbers in ballistic studies. This Underwood is the hottest 10mm I will dare shoot. I will not buy anymore. It's too much for a 40oz revolver and I was told to not shoot anymore steel plates with it at our LE range. At first they accused me using a rifle on them.
Find me a 357 mag load over 200grains that will produce more than 1200fps.
I normally don't bother with any 10mm load under 180grains. There is no point. The guys that tuned me into 10mm handloading push 155 grain loads 1600 fps in full size Glocks. I just like the revolver because I get free 40 ammo and loads of it.
Find me a 357 mag load over 200grains that will produce more than 1200fps.
I normally don't bother with any 10mm load under 180grains. There is no point. The guys that tuned me into 10mm handloading push 155 grain loads 1600 fps in full size Glocks. I just like the revolver because I get free 40 ammo and loads of it.
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Loyaljeeper
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My argument was meant to be strictly store bought loads by the big three and 10mm beats 357mag. Of course there are exceptions.
sparkyvega
Member
The 10mm Magnum runs at the same max pressure as the 10mm Auto, 37.5K psi. The 610's N-frame can handle it.
It's a wildcat cartridge as no one has had it SAAMI certified/standardized yet.
You have to ream the standard 10mm Auto M610 cylinder's chambers longer to accept the 10mm MAG, which can be done with a standard Dave Manson 10mm Auto reamer.
A Starline 10MAG case has ~5.9% less capacity than a Starline 41MAG case.
I load my 165gr & 180gr 10MAGs to approximately 41MAG 170gr load data.
TAFFIN TESTS: THE 10MM MAGNUM
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Taffin Test the 10 mm Magnum
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The N-Frame can handle .44 Magnum, 10mm Magnum will be no problem.
If all outside dimensions are the same, the 610 has thicker cylinder walls and barrel than the .44s.
My question for the knowledgeable ones...is the stainless alloy used to make the 10mms any different from the .44 Mag. models??
Frank Black
Member
Actually, the 10mm Magnum exceeds the ballistics of the .41 Magnum, per John Taffin. He thought the 10mm Mag was the better round due to its versatility.
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Loyaljeeper
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There is reason to believe the metal from one steel model to the next will be the same provided both frames were manufactured around the same time.
I would think so too, but knowing that S&W used different alloys for older .38 and .357 models i can never be sure.
uncleted327
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Funny how ft-lbs of energy is only meaningless once it disproves someone's BS. The fact remains the 10mm doesn't beat the 357 Magnum unless you start adding in your yeah buts, what ifs and so forth. Of course you won't find a 200 grain 357 load because the 10mm can utilize heavier bullets, who cares. Cherry picking two loads to compare in order to try and prove your feelings correct about the 10mm doesn't make you right. It doesn't beat the 357 and was never close to the 41 Magnum. You people who want to worship the 10mm as some hammer of Thor are welcome to your own opinion, but not your own facts.
Loyaljeeper
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I didn't cherry pick loads. Someone cherry picked a specific 357 load that I have never seen on shelves because it's ridiculously pushed past what most 357 mags could handle and expensive. I own about seven 357 mags and one 10mm. I have no biased interest in 10mm.
If 10mm was as common as 357mag I'm sure we would have some ridiculous loading for it also. Until then, handloaders will rival that one load that you cite that represents less than 1% of 357 mag ammo sold.
I am only talking mass produced ammo by large manufacturers which for years has been a 158gr 357mag at 1250 vs a 180 10mm at the same velocity. A heavier bullet, with a larger diameter, at the same velocity or even slightly less is more powerful.
Mike_Fontenot
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I DID find some 10mm magnum listed on Doubletap's webpage. They didn't include any ballistic or dimensional info on it though.
Mike_Fontenot
Member
That surprises me. I had assumed that most of the extra performance was due to a higher max pressure. That must mean that the extra power comes from having room for a lot more powder in the case. (A better way to put that is that, if the max pressure is the same, the only way the bullet velocity or energy could be substantially higher is if the high pressure lasts for a longer time of bullet travel).
In your photos of the three cartridges, the 10mm magnum case looks a LOT longer that the 10mm case. I'm surprised there is enough extra length in an N Frame cylinder to accommodate that.
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Frank Black
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Don't know why. Not very long ago the fps/fpe stats could be found listed under each 10mm Mag load that DT offered. I think there were four such loads. They must've removed the ballistic stats when the ammo sold out.
Below are Taffin's chronographed readings from his handloads. (The link to his article on the 10mm Magnum is posted below the quoted material).
Note that his AMT semi-auto 10mm Mag pistol had a 8 3/8" barrel, but a good chunk of that measurement included the chamber. So it would be interesting to do a comparative range session with Ruger's 7" 10mm SRH, with its cylinder chambers suitable reamed to 10mm Mag specs, to fire the same loads and see if the same or closely similar velocities would result, other variables being equal.
Or failing that, maybe one of the many 6.5" S&W 610s whose cylinders wheelgun 'smiths like Hamilton Bowen converted to 10mm Mag specs.
Taffin's full article on the 10mm Magnum and its background can be found here:
Taffin Test the 10 mm Magnum
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The 10mm Magnum shows an overall cartridge length 1.555". The N-frame handles 357M-1.590", 41M-1.590", 44M-1.610", & 45LC-1.600". There's adequate length in the N-frame cylinder to accommodate it.
