Where did all the 158 gr SWC go?

[Hovnnes]

When I was with the SO, we commonly used 158gr LSWC in our .38s &.357s. It was considered the minimum duty load. RN bullets were a thingof the past(and for good reason, apparently) Eventuallywe moved to 125gr SJHPs in .357 but .36 Spls still were 158 gr.LWCs---it was the ubiquitous .38 Spl load, even our reloads were 158 LSWCs.
I recently was looking at some catalogs and it seems like the.38 LSWC isn't as popular these days, I only found Magtech and Winchester Super-x (curously not WINUSA) listed as loading this bullet wieght---but lots of outfits are loading 150 gr LRN and even 130 gr FMC under the promo brand labels USA,UMC,American Eagle---even some eastern european marques!)
Whats with that?
Most.38 Spl revolvers are regulated for the 158 grain load, and if a 158 gr LRN is less than marginal, why load a 150 gr LRN? And 130 gr FMC? I could see the reason for Air Force using FMC ammo in Viet Nam with the Geneva Convention and all, but it simply dosen't make sense for civilians. Even the lead ammo enviremental arguement dosen't quite sound right since the lead base of the FMC would still be exposed.
So,where did all the 158gr.LWSC go? And why?

 

[lebomm]

The feeling I've been getting is that many of today's shooters can't handle the brutal recoil of the massive 158 gr. bullet being launched at a blistering 850 fps, hence the proliferation of lighter-bullet loadings to avoid bruising their palms.
Besides, most .38s weren't designed around such a huge chunk of
.........................oh, wait a minute..............

 

[Steve C]

LSWC's are still very popular with hand loaders. Solids are considered practice or target ammo as the manufacturers would rather sell 20 to 25 round boxes of premium "personal protection" jhp's to consumers looking for self defense ammunition at premium prices.

If you look at the MS data you will see that the SWC and the RN have almost exactly the same street performance with no real superiority to a flat nose solid vrs a rn solid even though the SWC 158's where loaded to +P and the RN 158's generally are standard pressure.

Before there was a lot more testing and comparison of ammunition for law enforcement the police fell to the same misconceptions of the general public in believing that if something "looks" like it would be better, then it "must" be better, rather than relying on empirical data mostly because there was none.

 

[sbcman]

Hadn't thought about it till this post, but I don't think I've ever seen a box of 158 lswc for sale- but I'm young. Maybe it has something do with guys that reload buying lswc bullets and there's just not much demand for factory(?).

 

[Murdock]

Solids are considered practice or target ammo as the manufacturers would rather sell 20 to 25 round boxes of premium "personal protection" jhp's to consumers looking for self defense ammunition at premium prices.

Yup, it's all about profit margin. And those pesky reloaders do cut into profits.

 

[JohnnieB]

1/.........I only found Magtech and Winchester Super-x (curously not WINUSA) listed as loading this bullet wieght.............
2/.........So,where did all the 158gr.LWSC go? And why?........

1/ You need to look further afield.

2/ I don't know where all of it went, but I do know where 6,000 rounds or so are.

Kidding aside, there are several lesser known ammo manufacturers and commercial reloaders that still turn out 158gr LSWC and LRN by the ton. Georgia Arms and Bitteroot Valley Ammunition Company are a couple that come to mind and I'm pretty sure there's some Ma&Pa shops that only sell locally.

I reload, but I replenish my brass by buying bulk ammo loaded in new brass and I usually buy 158gr LSWC or LRN because it's usually the least expensive.

 

[GyMac]

150's, I can somewhat understand, but the 130 grain MC...what is up with that?! Why would anyone choose that round for anything. Maybe if your gun hit really high and you wanted something to lower the POI?

 

[97thSignalman]

I reload more 158 gr LSWC than anyother bullets. I also have some Magtech 158gr LSWC factory ammo that I bought before I got back into reloading. I think they are favored for low cost and target accuracy. I'm not crazy about scrubing lead out of some of my barrels but it still shoots better than just about anything else for me. I also have been loading some 148gr HBWC and DEWC bullets...nice round holes in the target.

I have played around with plated 158 gr bullets but they aren't all that cheap and have their own reloading challenges as far as crimping is concerned.

 

[john traveler]

I have a theory, and that is all it really is until extensive research can prove it out.

The M41 130 grain FMJ .38 Special that was formerly US Military standard was developed for the hundreds of thousands of .38 Special M&P revolvers in US Army and Navy inventory after WWII.

With the formation of the US Air Force in 1948 and it's (probably) separate procurement branches, the USAF was able to buy specialized personal defense weapons for the pilots and base police personel. The Aircrewman series of light-weight revolvers comes to mind.

The lighter weight (130 grain) FMJ .38 Special M41 met international convention requirements at the somewhat less-than spectacular performance of it's 158 grain FMJ predecessor. The main reason for the aircrew sidearm was the ability to chamber and fire tracer rounds for emergency and rescue signalling. Actual antipersonnel use was a distant secondary consideration.

Please remember that the standard sidearm at the time was the M1911A1 and the standard Air Police shoulder arm were the M1 and M2 .30 caliber carbines. The M41 ammunition met requirements for personal defense and lighter weight for air crew personel. So, the 130 grain FMJ round soldiered on for a couple generations for all .38 Special revolvers in all the services. It was declared obsolete in the late 1980s several years after the adoption of the 9mm M9 pistol.

Well, now the manufacturers of the old M41 ammunition had a problem. What to do with the in-stock inventory of 130 grain FMJ ammunition and components? Why not sell it on the civilian market? And that is almost certainly what they did. We are now buying, and shooting, the surplus M41 components that the US Government stopped buying a generation ago!

 

[pharmer]

I've fired 100 rds of these through my wife's 642. I wouldn't feel "unarmed" if this was all I had. Wish I had bought more than 1K when J&G had it for $150/K. Joe

 

[Texas Star]

I recently fired a box of Winchester "white box" 130's, and it shot fine, and cleaned up with almost no effort.

But I wouldn't rely on it for anything but paper shooting and maybe small rabbits.

When I was in the USAF, one base used unit funds to buy some Hi-Velocity .38 ammo locally. I felt better carrying that. It was probably .38-44 stuff, Plus P not being developed yet. But we practiced with wadcutters, so the guns didn't take a beating. A lot were leftover Victory Models scrounged from the Navy.

T-Star

 

[JayDubya]

Do you want some .38sp 158gr LSWC standard pressure range loads? Check www.mastercast.net. I fired off thousands of their reloads before switching to their 148gr WCs. It's a Mom and Pop operation in rural NW Pennsylvania. Reliable, inexpensive, excellent service. I currently have about six hundred rounds of their .38sp WCs and a similar number of 9x19mm 124gr LTC waiting to be fired off at my range. You can save a bundle by sending your spent brass in exchange (same type and number) via USPS Priority Mail. I can get about two thousand cases into one of their ten dollar boxes. Any other way I know of costs at least twice that.

Cordially, Jack

 

[sw282]

si--------

 

[glenwolde]

It's still around...but the 158gr +P SWC hollow points have mostly disappeared. I know Remington discontinued theirs. But standard loads with solid bullets are still made.

38 Special | Handgun Ammo | Ammo

 

[Nevada Ed]

2/21/17
Midway did not have the Remington 158 FBI load listed....... !!

Lots of 158 LRN standard and "Cowboy" loadings at 755 to 800fps........ out of a 4" ?

Just that the 130grs are less recoil and a little cleaner for shooters........... and about $8.00 a box cheaper.

 

[jtmo3]

I contacted Remington back in dec 16 and their response to the 158 +p was..

"Thank you for contacting Remington! We appreciate you taking the time to write in with your question. This ammo is not currently in production and I do not show that it is scheduled. Thank you!"

 

[JWM]

Federal .38C

Circa 1979-82, I could visit my local Kmart and easily buy Federal's 158 grain SWC in 50 round boxes, item #38c. A nice standard pressure load. Shot point of aim, point of impact from my two inch Charter Arms Undercover. These days I have to either reload it, or special order it on line for delivery.

 

[Papaw]

158 SWC is all I reload for .38 SPL.

 

[THE PILGRIM]

Lately I have bought some HSM 158 gr Remanufactuted 38 Special.
It works for me!
Have shot it in 60, 640, 649, 642 and 66s.

 

[THREEDFLYER]

Load you own!!!!
I have loaded and shot many thousands SWC bullets in several calibers over the years, they are super accurate and easy on the body with the right loading.
Problem we are having is the lead bullets are being slowly phased out by commercial manufacturers and most of your indoor ranges are looking for "lead-safe" ammo.