Where is the FBI load?

[JayFramer]

Hello everyone!

I've had a heck of a time finding a box or two of any 158 grain .38 special +P Lead Semi-Wad Cutter Hollow Point (LSWCHP) ammo, otherwise known as the "FBI load". I was planning on getting some for my Model 64 police trade in that's coming to me from J&G Sales.

I just have searched EVERYWHERE, Gun Broker, Ammoseek.com, Arms List, Gun Auction... for whatever reason I just CANNOT find this load for sale either commercially or in private transactions.

I know Remington still has this load in there lineup, marketed under there "HTP" line. Here it is at Sportsman's Guide dot com, but it's out of stock w/ no backorder like every other place on the internet:

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/prod...terminal-performance-ammo-50-rounds?a=1500063

I understand this was a popular defense round in .38 special revolvers, and gave good performance out of both snubs and service revolvers. So what gives? It appears that it has all but disappeared on this planet and for the life of me I don't know why, so if anyone can help me in finding some that would be TREMENDOUSLY appreciated!

Thanks!

 

[dpast32]

Buffalo Bore has it in both +P & Non +P velocity versions. I use the +P for my steel frame .38's, & the standard velocity loading in my alloy framed revolvers. Yes, they are expensive. You have to decide for yourself if they are worth the cost.

dpast32

 

[Hapworth]

Buffalo Bore has it in both +P & Non +P velocity versions. I use the +P for my steel frame .38's, & the standard velocity loading in my alloy framed revolvers. Yes, they are expensive. You have to decide for yourself if they are worth the cost.

dpast32

BB's standard power more accurately replicates the old FBI load; the heavy +P is closer to low power .357.

 

[shouldazagged]

The real Remington FBI load (the best version, according to a number of experts) got the job done very successfully for decades. One member here had to use it twice in his law enforcement career, and it saved his life.

Unfortunately, people who have chronographed the new HTP rendition find it significantly slower.

The Buffalo Bore standard pressure load clocks at the same velocity as the old Remington stuff and has the advantage of a gas check and lower flash. It's in my carry J-frame and my K-frame house gun. Pricier, yes, but I feel more comfortable with it.

I have a few rounds of the good older Remington ammo in reserve. I won't be buying the HTP version.

 

[JayFramer]

The real Remington FBI load (the best version, according to a number of experts) got the job done very successfully for decades. One member here had to use it twice in his law enforcement career, and it saved his life.

Unfortunately, people who have chronographed the new HTP rendition find it significantly slower.

The Buffalo Bore standard pressure load clocks at the same velocity as the old Remington stuff and has the advantage of a gas check and lower flash. It's in my carry J-frame and my K-frame house gun. Pricier, yes, but I feel more comfortable with it.

I have a few rounds of the good older Remington ammo in reserve. I won't be buying the HTP version.

Yeah I remember reading how someone chrono'd the new HTP FBI load and yeah it was quite a bit slower. Not cool, probably Remington pinching the wrong pennies or something.

 

[CoMF]

Yeah I remember reading how someone chrono'd the new HTP FBI load and yeah it was quite a bit slower. Not cool, probably Remington pinching the wrong pennies or something.

Anecdotal sources state the alloy seems to be harder also, which is another point in the "minus" column. I'd still recommend it for 3" or longer barrels, and even short snub barrels (albeit grudgingly).

 

[JohnHancock]

Although a little pricey, Buffalo Bore +p FBIs are hard to beat! You might also try Georgia Arms if you can find them at a gun show in your area. Their site currently has the FBI +p listed out of stock, but they usually have everything at the shows.

 

[Hapworth]

I'm doubtful about Remington's HTP versions of the FBI load, especially after chief38 posted his chrono results. But any chance they've changed the construction somehow to maintain quality penetration and expansion at lower velocities? I've looked for gel tests with the new stuff to no avail. Anybody else?

 

[Pigirondan]

I use the Buffalo Bore in my K-frames, both standard and +P, however one little wrinkle I've been trying lately in my J-frames is the Atomic Ammunition 148 grain reversed hollow body wadcutter. It is advertised as being +P. IMO, the recoil was okay. But, the big point, it is very accurate from 12 yards in. YMMV (Previously, I was using the Buffalo Bore 150 grain wadcutter in the J-frames.)

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I'm doubtful about Remington's HTP versions of the FBI load, especially after chief38 posted his chrono results. But any chance they've changed the construction somehow to maintain quality penetration and expansion at lower velocities? I've looked for gel tests with the new stuff to no avail. Anybody else?

Remington didn't change anything with their FBI Load. They came out with a new line of ammo called HTP for marketing purposes and moved some of their older products into the line. The only thing they changed was the box and the price. (and added 2 letters to the part number)

*EDIT*
Midway has it on backorder but they claim it's overdue. Put your email address in their notification system and they will let you know when it comes in. http://www.midwayusa.com/product/59...d-hollow-point-box-of-50?cm_vc=ProductFinding

 

[Jessie]

For a reloader, what replicates the FBI load, with say Unique or similar powder? I have a box of bullets already and would like to make some up.

 

[Malpasowildlifer]

ammunitiontogo had some a while back

 

[Pigirondan]

For a reloader, what replicates the FBI load, with say Unique or similar powder? I have a box of bullets already and would like to make some up.

With Unique start with 5.0 grains (or less) and see how it goes. I've found 5.1 grains to be best in my mohaska's. YMMV

 

[JayFramer]

Remington didn't change anything with their FBI Load. They came out with a new line of ammo called HTP for marketing purposes and moved some of their older products into the line. The only thing they changed was the box and the price. (and added 2 letters to the part number)

*EDIT*
Midway has it on backorder but they claim it's overdue. Put your email address in their notification system and they will let you know when it comes in. Remington High Terminal Performance Ammo 38 Special +P 158 Grain Lead

Not so. Someone on this forum posted chronograph results and the new HTP load was something like 100 FPS slower than the old "FBI" Remington load. When velocities are only cruising around the 750-950 FPS range for these loads out of snub bbls, you better believe that much velocity loss can make a difference, sometime dramatically in the fact that the bullet overpenetrates/fails to expand etc. etc.

I would love to see and actual IWBA protocol ballistic gelatin test for the new HTP load from both a snub nose and 4" service revolver, but alas!

 

[jeeps]

5grs of Unique with the 158lswc-hp. =FBI load.

 

[Old cop]

I've got some Federal FBI stuff in my carry guns that is about a year old now. Should I be thinking about replacing it? I also have it in all my speed strips and speed loaders.

 

[CoMF]

I've got some Federal FBI stuff in my carry guns that is about a year old now. Should I be thinking about replacing it? I also have it in all my speed strips and speed loaders.

I would. That is, if doing so didn't wipe out your stash. I know it's a hard decision to make when you've only got a limited supply of the real McCoy.

This predicament is part of the reason why I carry the Speer GDSB load now.

 

[bubbajoe45]

I've got some Federal FBI stuff in my carry guns that is about a year old now. Should I be thinking about replacing it? I also have it in all my speed strips and speed loaders.

It's not cottage cheese! I'd personally rather defend myself with old 158 gr. +P than fresh, shiny new 110 gr. anything . . .

 

[jeeps]

At these slow speeds of the 2" barrel heavy is the King to reach vital's. Not 110gr.

 

[JayFramer]

Thanks guys!

So I got two boxes of Remington HTP .38 special +P 158 gr. LSWCHP in the mail the other day. They look pretty good, but the hollow points cavity on some of them is sort of malformed and appears "squished", maybe not the best QC on this new load.

I shot half a box or so at a swinging plate target, and it did seem to knock it around more than the el cheapo 158 gr. standard pressure bulk ammo I was shooting along side it. Pretty scientific, eh?

One day soon I hope to chrono this new HTP load from both my 642-1 1 7/8" bbl and 64-6 4" bbl. But first I need to buy a chronograph!

 

[ironhead7544]

Over the years I have seen this load vary in velocity quite a bit. The reason they came up with the "+P" version is that the standard velocity did not work all the time with a hollow point, even soft lead. I have seen some lots of the +P 158 gr SWCHP only show 780 fps from a 4 inch. The standard 158 gr LRN shows about 700 fps or a little more in a 4 inch. YMMV.

If you do get some of this ammo, run your own velocity test in your revolver.

I would just get the Buffalo Bore ammo. The +P version should give enough velocity to get the hollow point to work.

 

[Hapworth]

...So I got two boxes of Remington HTP .38 special +P 158 gr. LSWCHP in the mail the other day. They look pretty good, but the hollow points cavity on some of them is sort of malformed and appears "squished", maybe not the best QC on this new load...

Ironically, it may also be a good sign that soft lead is still being used; the soft stuff is likelier to mushroom.

 

[Hapworth]

Over the years I have seen this load vary in velocity quite a bit. The reason they came up with the "+P" version is that the standard velocity did not work all the time with a hollow point, even soft lead. I have seen some lots of the +P 158 gr SWCHP only show 780 fps from a 4 inch. The standard 158 gr LRN shows about 700 fps or a little more in a 4 inch. YMMV.

If you do get some of this ammo, run your own velocity test in your revolver.

I would just get the Buffalo Bore ammo. The +P version should give enough velocity to get the hollow point to work.

I agree about factoring in variations due to batch and revolver.

Wish some of the usual suspect -- Brassfetcher, tnoutdoors, etc. -- would run some gel tests.

As for the BB +P Heavy version -- it's good, but it's a monster out of a J snubby.

 

[nawilson]

Although a little pricey, Buffalo Bore +p FBIs are hard to beat! You might also try Georgia Arms if you can find them at a gun show in your area. Their site currently has the FBI +p listed out of stock, but they usually have everything at the shows.

I agree completely on Buffalo Bore. All reports say they get an honest 1000 fps or slightly faster. Georgia Arms is generally good ammo, but they seem to use a different alloy than BB. Though unscientific, the finger nail test makes me think it is much harder.

 

[PALADIN85020]

Good news and bad news. The GOOD news is that there is still some of the original FBI load around, and it's still a very effective .38 special self-defense round.

The BAD news is that most of it is still hoarded by old-timers like me who only use it to stoke our steel J-frames for potential serious social work.

John

 

[CO_Kid]

Im in the same boat looking for that stuff. NOBODY carries it around here. One gun store, the guys had never even heard of it.

 

[Pigirondan]

As an aside, I use to use the Buffalo Bore hardcast wadcutter in my J-frame. It is a good round. However, I've gone to using the Atomic Ammunition reversed HBWC. It is just as accurate as the Buffalo Bore wadcutter 12 yards in. It is listed as a +P load.

To check the efficacy of the round I shot it into water soaked newspaper. It expands like a mofo. YMMV

 

[358156hp]

One of my local dealers looked me square in the eye and told me that 158 gr bullets are too heavy for a 38 Spl, and that the new 110 gr ammo is the only way to go. I told him that only 158 gr shoots to the sights of my J frame, and he told me I was just imagining it, and that I need to practice more. I haven't been back since. My 649 shoots 158 Hydrashok 357 mag loads to the sights out to about 15 yards, so that's what I'm using now.

 

[12string]

Thinking about trying some of these out of my S&W Model 36 no dash

38 Special +P 158 Grain Lead Semi-Wadcutter Hollow Point Gas Check Box of 50

or maybe the hard cast stuff, much cheaper than BB

38 Special +P 158 Grain Hard Cast Keith Box of 50

 

[Black_Sheep]

It appears the old Remington #R38S12 is no longer available. I'll have to conserve the few boxes left in my stash...