Annihilator
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Where is the quality control......
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pittpa
Member
Was planning to buy a 686 competition and sold a gun to fund it. I've pretty much decided against purchasing any new Smith handgun in light of the prices versus the reports of ridiculous issues I've seen and read about. .
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You didn't have to pay.....
You didn't have to pay a nickel. Call S&W and they'll send you a shipping label. Turnaround has been slower but warranty jobs get priority. They send it back to you. As far as your question goes, S&Ws business model seems to be that the customer is the quality control. If a gun comes back, they fix it. If it doesn't come back, it's a good gun. I don't agree with it, but up til now it works.
One thing that I find doubtful is that they may not find all of these flaws and the gun would have to be sent back for a repeat. You should give S&W first crack, though.
You didn't have to pay a nickel. Call S&W and they'll send you a shipping label. Turnaround has been slower but warranty jobs get priority. They send it back to you. As far as your question goes, S&Ws business model seems to be that the customer is the quality control. If a gun comes back, they fix it. If it doesn't come back, it's a good gun. I don't agree with it, but up til now it works.
One thing that I find doubtful is that they may not find all of these flaws and the gun would have to be sent back for a repeat. You should give S&W first crack, though.
To the OP. Based on your own dating, your gun was built three years ago, yet you present it as an exemplar of current production. Then you didn't even give the factory a chance to address your concerns. It's my understanding that Smith & Wesson is pretty good about correcting problems free of charge when they are at fault; yet you state that it would have cost you more than your gunsmith charged to let the factory make the needed changes.
What exactly was/is the point of your post?
For what it's worth; I've purchased four new S&W revolvers in the last few months. All of them have been outstanding. None of them have had a single issue that needed to be addressed by the factory or by a professional gunsmith.
I like the old Smith & Wesson's. I like the new Smith & Wesson's.
What exactly was/is the point of your post?
For what it's worth; I've purchased four new S&W revolvers in the last few months. All of them have been outstanding. None of them have had a single issue that needed to be addressed by the factory or by a professional gunsmith.
I like the old Smith & Wesson's. I like the new Smith & Wesson's.
riverrat38
US Veteran
I just bought a new M66-8 snub about a month ago, and am having issues with it, mainly, it is ejecting "something" out the gap, some of which was hitting me in the face.
I emailed S&W, and they returned shipping authorization within an hour. I took the revolver to FedX, and they used the provided label to ship it back to the factory at no cost to me. I just had to box the unloaded gun. Tracking info showed it was delivered in a couple of days. After about a week, I got an email saying that they had received the gun, and would let me know. I think the forcing cone may not be cut deep enough. Only kind of a hint of a "cone", in my opinion. Timing may be off, also.
These revolvers are very close tolerance, and the BC gap is .004, about half of what I have found on other S&W revolvers that I have checked in recent years.
I really like the gun in other respects, and hope they can fix the problem. The guns are tight enough that others have noted that there seems to be a "break in" period before they function well. The locking detent for the cylinder has changed from the early 4.25 inch barrel versions. The locking ball is not visible when the cylinder is closed. I hope that is not the cause of the "spitting" problem.
I don't think the MIM parts are a problem, just the opposite, since gun manufacture don't seem to hire skilled builders anymore. An industry wide condition, except for custom shops that get several times what a S&W sells for.
Best,
Rick
I emailed S&W, and they returned shipping authorization within an hour. I took the revolver to FedX, and they used the provided label to ship it back to the factory at no cost to me. I just had to box the unloaded gun. Tracking info showed it was delivered in a couple of days. After about a week, I got an email saying that they had received the gun, and would let me know. I think the forcing cone may not be cut deep enough. Only kind of a hint of a "cone", in my opinion. Timing may be off, also.
These revolvers are very close tolerance, and the BC gap is .004, about half of what I have found on other S&W revolvers that I have checked in recent years.
I really like the gun in other respects, and hope they can fix the problem. The guns are tight enough that others have noted that there seems to be a "break in" period before they function well. The locking detent for the cylinder has changed from the early 4.25 inch barrel versions. The locking ball is not visible when the cylinder is closed. I hope that is not the cause of the "spitting" problem.
I don't think the MIM parts are a problem, just the opposite, since gun manufacture don't seem to hire skilled builders anymore. An industry wide condition, except for custom shops that get several times what a S&W sells for.
Best,
Rick
Ashlander
Member
I am wondering how a gun shipped in June '14 is only now being sold as new. Where has it been? Has it been sitting on a shelf that entire time?
I've had old vintage S&W revolvers with very little use that had problems, likely from the factory. In fact, with a couple of them, I figure that's why they got very little use - they never worked quite properly, so they were put aside. One was a '68 model 36 and another was a late 1940's M&P, both in .38 Special. I had the 36 fixed and sold back the M&P.
And what do these two anecdotes prove? Not very much, I'm afraid, other than even high quality stuff can leave the factory with problems. The Bentley motorcar company has a warranty department. That means they can sometimes have issues they shouldn't have. It doesn't mean they're substandard cars, generally speaking.
And what do these two anecdotes prove? Not very much, I'm afraid, other than even high quality stuff can leave the factory with problems. The Bentley motorcar company has a warranty department. That means they can sometimes have issues they shouldn't have. It doesn't mean they're substandard cars, generally speaking.
bigwheelzip
Absent Comrade
Who you choose to have work on you firearms is your business, but part of the cost factored into that new 66 is the lifetime warranty. The only warranty repair cost to you normally, is the time to make a phone call. They even pay all shipping.
From one of your posts seven years ago:
I know it's frustrating when a new firearm doesn't work right, but perhaps let Customer Service do their job before you flame the company.
From one of your posts seven years ago:
I know it's frustrating when a new firearm doesn't work right, but perhaps let Customer Service do their job before you flame the company.
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Collo Rosso
Member
No, please, you need to sell it. The legions of "I'll never buy a new S&W" need another soldier.
While I do agree that S&W quality control is lacking, I do believe they still make lots of quality guns. They now assemble guns instead of fit them. Some of the assemblers need more training or a different job. That is our world. Check out the problems people have with any new car or truck. But, they will fix the problems.
We do hear about the guns that have to go back multible times, some of this is not excusable. Some of it is intermittent problems are hard to diagnose. Part of it is customers who don't really get revolvers. Some of it is S&W failure. Also once something has a problem it is going to get nit picked to death from then on. If your gun doesn't work right at first afterwards your going to double check every minor detail. Plus, as the most popular S&W website on a internet connected world we are going to hear about almost everyone of them.
Were all the older guns perfect? I highly doubt it. People and machines have NEVER been infallible and never will be.
I have several S&W revolvers that are under 10 years old a 396, a 500, a 325, a 640. All of them work flawless. On the other hand I have picked up several much older used guns with issues. Some of them from some type of abuse, some who knows. My favorite shooter is a 18-3 I got new years ago. Had a horrible trigger, had to clean up the ratchet, barrel started to unscrew. Got those fixed and have run thousands of various 22lr through it since with no problems and thats without cleaning it nearly as much as I should. Sure glad I didn't give up on S&W when I got that gun because of its horrible quality control. I absolutely love that gun now and I would have missed out on the great enjoyment of some built after that.
Hate the lock, don't mind MIM at all, think CNC is great, in frame firing pins are fine as are hammer mounted. They had some learning curve problems with stainless. There is always a learning curve. I doubt the first time they tried to make a triple lock that it came out perfect, but then it also didn't leave the factory until it was. But, then where thousands of people lighting up the internet and the phones asking for one. How many people have asked about the model 69 snub, where are they, when are they coming, how come I can't find one? How much competition did S&W have in 1910? How much now? How many stock holders did they have breathing down their neck for dividends in the 19 teens? Yada yada yada.
We do hear about the guns that have to go back multible times, some of this is not excusable. Some of it is intermittent problems are hard to diagnose. Part of it is customers who don't really get revolvers. Some of it is S&W failure. Also once something has a problem it is going to get nit picked to death from then on. If your gun doesn't work right at first afterwards your going to double check every minor detail. Plus, as the most popular S&W website on a internet connected world we are going to hear about almost everyone of them.
Were all the older guns perfect? I highly doubt it. People and machines have NEVER been infallible and never will be.
I have several S&W revolvers that are under 10 years old a 396, a 500, a 325, a 640. All of them work flawless. On the other hand I have picked up several much older used guns with issues. Some of them from some type of abuse, some who knows. My favorite shooter is a 18-3 I got new years ago. Had a horrible trigger, had to clean up the ratchet, barrel started to unscrew. Got those fixed and have run thousands of various 22lr through it since with no problems and thats without cleaning it nearly as much as I should. Sure glad I didn't give up on S&W when I got that gun because of its horrible quality control. I absolutely love that gun now and I would have missed out on the great enjoyment of some built after that.
Hate the lock, don't mind MIM at all, think CNC is great, in frame firing pins are fine as are hammer mounted. They had some learning curve problems with stainless. There is always a learning curve. I doubt the first time they tried to make a triple lock that it came out perfect, but then it also didn't leave the factory until it was. But, then where thousands of people lighting up the internet and the phones asking for one. How many people have asked about the model 69 snub, where are they, when are they coming, how come I can't find one? How much competition did S&W have in 1910? How much now? How many stock holders did they have breathing down their neck for dividends in the 19 teens? Yada yada yada.
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Jim1392
US Veteran
The part that confuses me besides you paying to get it fixed rather then send it back, is you knew the gun had a problem when you checked it. I've had a gun come in and my LGS call me and when I checked it had a canted barrel. Rather then me buying it and then complaining that it had a canted barrel I just said "Thanks but no thanks" and left without it. Not to mention any problem I've had with any of my S & W guns were fixed without any cost to me except my time to get it to them. Yes, sometimes it takes them time to get it back to you but my experience has been nothing but positive with customer service.
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Arik
Member
Well here's one conclusion. My Model 12 and 27-2 (1966) had the same issues. What conclusion should we draw from that?
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Actually I see that a lot in local shops. Stuff from the back room, "found" by a distributor, demo guns (everyone wants the new one from the back). For a few:
A Ruger SS that actually had rust, NIB from about 5 years ago.
A Para that was on clearance - mfg in 2014
A Reminington 25 on clearance (demo) mfg several years ago.
But to be correct, I think the OP's gun should have gone back to S&W unless there was an overriding reason not to ship it. The more they see of their "failures", the more they can do to fix things in the production cycle (at least we would hope that).
My experiences with S&W CS have been good.
jhnttrpp
Member
I think the OP gave a fair and balanced report of his new purchase. He mostly just gave us the facts, as he should. This is a Smith and Wesson forum and we should eagerly accept the good and the bad reviews. I gather that he would rather pay the 50 dollars than to send his gun off and be without it for what ever period of time it would take to get his gun back. Apparently he trusts his local gunsmith more than the smiths at S&W. He also complimented the gun once it was repaired as being "awesome". I for one appreciate his candor. He didn't flame S&W, he just gave us a report.
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I'd say calling the workers @S&W "drones" when you don't know them is flaming.
Great post
Really well written and a dead on assessment of the current gun manufacturing business regardless of brand. We just hear less from the owners of semi autos with stamped out drop in parts that require little or no precision to assemble and still operate correctly.
I participate at two other forums: RugerTalk and PA Firearms Owners Assoc. From my experience the number of complaints about QC are quite like those here. At Ruger the majority of complaints are obviously about Ruger guns. At PAa Assoc the complaints cover many more manufacturers.
Was planning to buy a 686 competition and sold a gun to fund it. I've pretty much decided against purchasing any new Smith handgun in light of the prices versus the reports of ridiculous issues I've seen and read about. .
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PRICE
1969 min wage $1.30 2017 min wage $7.25 (times 5.58)
1969 Camaro with all the options $5000 2017 with most options $50000 (Times 10 the price)
S&W model 27 maybe $250 with targets etc. New Performance center 627. $1250 (5 times the price)
A new S&W is still a good deal
Valid, and in my mind correct point, but probably unobtainable in today's environment.
I believe that the only way to bring a company's attention to issues is to just keep reporting the problems, be it a battery, a gun, or a car.
American1776
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Quality control on new revolvers (all major brands) is much lower than before.
That said, I think that if you want a revolver that will 'go bang' and work when you need it, the vast majority of the new ones still do that. There's a big difference between a revolver that simply shoots fine, and one that is built to tight specs like they used to be.
The *vast* majority of gun owners who buy S&W revolvers new will shoot the gun a few times, put it in a safe or carry it, and not shoot it much at all again. Many gun owners buy the gun, load it, and stick it in a drawer where it sits for 50 years untouched.
That said, I think that if you want a revolver that will 'go bang' and work when you need it, the vast majority of the new ones still do that. There's a big difference between a revolver that simply shoots fine, and one that is built to tight specs like they used to be.
The *vast* majority of gun owners who buy S&W revolvers new will shoot the gun a few times, put it in a safe or carry it, and not shoot it much at all again. Many gun owners buy the gun, load it, and stick it in a drawer where it sits for 50 years untouched.
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