who wants to help a new guy??? 9mm and .40 questions...a bunch of them!!!

Some ranges offer an NRA introductory course, which is very good. Finding a range that offers the course is variable, depending on where you live. A group of young ladies locally got a group deal on the introductory course and the Concealed Carry course.
Some local ranges have package deals including rental multiple gun shooting and cleaning. One wag said it was the only time the range guns got properly cleaned. At least one range, all I know it was somewhere in Georgia, included a discount and various package deals on guns and shooting. The young Navy officer I talked to was much impressed by his Mother's competence and confidence.
Geoff
Who knows a couple of ranges in NE Florida...
Florida Outdoor Shooting Range | American Tactical Training Arms Center | A.T.T.A.C.
 
MP 9/40

Welcome !!

If you buy a 40 you can get an aftermarket bbl in 9mm. Most work

well, just change mags. IMO 40 kicks more than 45 in FS guns. As

stated 9mm is cheaper, but still have great carry ammo out there. 40

has alot also. But so does 45acp. Try all the guns you can find.

Ask friends and rent if possible. Shoot the ammo you want to carry

in it.

Good luck

8th
 
I broke in during the days when "real cops" carried a .357 mag. and the lessor ones carried a .38. There were two manufacturers, Smith and Colt, with S & W by far in the majority. That said, having broken in with the magnum, the recoil from any automatic is pretty tame. My experience as an instructor leaders me to believe the problem most people have with recoil is a matter of mindset and training. With proper grip and grips and technique, almost anybody can handle almost any handgun, with the exception of some extremes. My wife weighed about 100 pounds soaking wet, but she could handle the full power magnums. Best investment might be a good, I repeat, good, shooting course.

Back in the day I had many handguns in all calibers. Today the only working handgun I own is a Smith & Wesson 4013 just the way it came from the factory. I opted for .40 deliberately: The .40 and .357 Sig seem to come closest to the performance I wanted, which was really my old .357. I went to an automatic not because I believe it is superior in any way, but because I know I can't afford to shoot as much as I did, therefore I'm not as confident in my shot placement as I was. Also, the price of compact revolvers today is just prohibitive and what I wanted was a Model 65 with a three inch barrel and they are just hard to come by. It's also getting toughter to find leather and even ammunition without paying a premium price.

I went back through some old notes and records when I moved. Interestingly, most of the homicides I worked involved .22s. Those guys were just as dead as any of the others. It was all about shot placement. I would not volunteer to carry a defensive firearm in .22, but we send people into harms way every day with .223 and that's really just a souped up .22. That said, stick with .38/9mm or larger. Consider buying used if you're buying from a good, knowledgable dealer. Don't buy online until you have a lot more experience.

That advice to go to a range and try several different weapons is gold. Also, try some different loads. Then sit down and draw up a chart for each gun you are considering and the pros and cons of both the weapon and the caliber. Rank them from one to five or one to ten. Before long you'll find youself shading your numbers in favor of one caliber and one gun. That should probably be your choice, unless you can really justify soemthing else to yourself. That it's not the most popular or the gun writers don't tote it as the best thing short of an atomic bomb should not be a concern, but don't go too much upstream. You're not a salmon.

As to the cost of the guns, there are some real pieces of c-----p out there. Stay away from them. Purchase your first handgun from one of the major manufacturers. They have enough choices to keep everybody confused. Every gun will have its drawbacks. I don't like the grips on automatics or the long trigger pull on the 3rd generation Smiths, but what am I carrying?

Also, John Browning gave some advice: A handgun usually works best in the caliber it was designed for. Do your homework. There are no shortcuts unless you are satisfied being a danger to yourself and everybody around you. When I was training, I explained to students that I feel free to shoot anyone who points a gun at me, even on the range. Learn muzzle discipline. Obey the rules. You want a simple explanation? Do the reading for yourself. I'm not willing to bet my life on what a bunch of faceless guys say online, but if you are, that's okay. Just include me as a beneficiary on your life insurance policy.

Remember, all gunnies have their opinions. Usually, we voice them pretty strongly, but then most of us have strong opinions because we've bet our lives on those guns and our ability to handle them. That tends to make a man dig in his heels. Best advice, for a first gun, I'd still recommend a good K-frame revolver loaded with hot .38s. Not much to go wrong with it and it'll still get you through the night. They hold their value and when you've mastered the basics, trade it. You say revolvers aren't sexy anymore? Well, just what are you planning to do with that thing anyway? No, don't answer that.

Wild Bill Hickok carried a Colt Navy in .36 caliber. Today, that load is about the same as a .380 and we all agree its a marginal round for defensive purposes. But I don't recall Ol' Bill complaining and he had other options too.

Oh, about the "magic bullet." I've been searching for it for more than 30 years. All I can say is that it better be the load I'm carrying when I need it. Power's fine, but accuracy is final. Like the man said, Gun control is a good trigger finger and hitting what you aim at.

I couldn't agree more! You can't go wrong with a good revolver.I too started on the street with a 357(telling our age now). I wouldn't feel under gunned with one today. Shot placement is the key. A hit with a 22 is better than a miss with a 9,38,40,45,...........

My best advice is to find a gun range that rents guns. Try them all and pick the one that fits you best. Spend the time and money to be proficient with the weapon. Best of luck to you
 
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Welcome to the forum, I am rather new and went thru several guns before purchasing for CC the SW MP 9c (compact. It is a great gun for target, IDPA matches, home defense, easy to disassemble & clean, and general concealed carry (CC). Using Crital Defense ammo in one mag & target ammo in the others makes it easy for CC or target. Recommend Wal-Mart Federal ammo at $9.47/box of 50.
 
Hi gamble and welcome! I own two M&P .40's one is a full size and the other is a compact. I am an older female who weighs 115 lbs and I have no problem with the recoil on either of them. We purchased the full size first for home protection but my husband has now taken it over for his carry weapon. I then went out and purchased the identical M&P Compact for my carry. I love them both. Since both the 9mm and .40 M&P frames were the same size, we decided to go with the larger caliber, and are totally happy with our decision. Just my experience. Good Luck
 
I have a full size M&P 9mm. Very easy and enjoyable gun to shoot. One of the reasons I went to the 9 was to allow the kids and wife to shoot it also.
You asked about price. Based on what can be found today, you can buy a new M&P for much less than $700. I don't think many retail stores sell them at that MSRP price, since you can get them on the internet, etc. for as low as $400. I paid $600 a little over a year ago, and am now looking for a .45 expecting to pay low $400's.
Good luck, be safe, shoot them before you buy, and have fun.
 
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I would suggest that you handle and possibly fire as many different guns as possible and get the one you are comfortable with.
Generally you get what you pay for as far as price difference, but if you can not handle the higher priced "better" gun, it is going to be a problem. buy the gun that you can shoot accurately (even if it is a 9mm).
 
I have a full size M&P 9mm. Very easy and enjoyable gun to shoot. One of the reasons I went to the 9 was to allow the kids and wife to shoot it also.
You asked about price. Based on what can be found today, you can buy a new M&P for much less than $700. I don't think many retail stores sell them at that MSRP price, since you can get them on the internet, etc. for as low as $400. I paid $600 a little over a year ago, and am now looking for a .45 expecting to pay low $400's.
Good luck, be safe, shoot them before you buy, and have fun.

I picked up a M&P40 for $550 last night. Very reasonable price considering the MSRP (in the S&W catalog) is $718.
 
To the OP

Maybe I missed this but to the OP, at current do you have a pistol permit?

As for the caliber pistol, if you can shoot at a range and see and feel the difference that would be the best way to go, or hope that who you buy from has an exchange program, or better yet buy used.

As for stopping power, plain and simple 40 over a 9mm. Theres no if's and's or but's.

Good luck in your quest and make sure you get the proper training
 
I picked up a M&P40 for $550 last night. Very reasonable price considering the MSRP (in the S&W catalog) is $718.

Cherokee Gun in Canton GA is currently advertising 9mm and 40 caliber M&P's for $399.95 after the rebate!
 
The additional "stopping power" of the .40 is mostly hype. The best loads in both calibers do essentially the same thing in human tissue; bore a hole between 1/2" and 2/3" in diameter from front to (almost) back, ideally stopping under the skin instead of exiting. There is no "hydrostatic shock" at typical pistol bullet velocity, only the hole. The location of the hole is far more important than a couple of hundredths of an inch in the diameter.

Best advice in the thread......

With today's bullet technology, the difference in performance between 9 and .40 is very small. .40's main advantage is slightly better performance through barricades such as window glass and sheet metal. That slight performance benefit comes at a cost of higher recoil, less capacity, and more stress to the gun.

You can choose either, you won't be making a "wrong" choice.
 
If there is such a small difference between the two, why is the majority of law enforcement using the 9mm? I mean every time I turn on the TV we see that the cops of most cities are broke, so why would they waste the extra money on the 40 if the 9mm is "just as good".

Actually, .40 is the dominant LE caliber today.

But using what LE chooses as a litmus test, isn't always the best idea. When I first became a cop, we carried 158 grain round nose .38's, even though both hollow points and semiwadcutters had been around for many years. When law enforcement finally did go to hollow points, many adopted rounds like the 110 grain +P+, which was a dismal round, probably less effective than the round nose 158's.

.40 became a popular choice before some of the better 9mm bullets came out, and the choice was based on the failures, or in some cases, supposed failures of earlier ammunition. Today, I doubt it would have become as popular. I know of a couple agencies that have traded their .40's for 9's.

I only know 2 people (both cops) that have shot other people, one has done so twice and he said he felt better with the 40 compared to the 9mm. That is all the proof I need.

Well, with scientific data like that, who could blame you?

In my opinion any difference no matter how small when my life depends on it is a no brainer.

And that's why they make different calibers. I know a lot of guys that would never carry a "pipsqueak" round like a .40 as well. 25 years ago, I worked with a US Marshal on a joint task force who always carried a .45. When guys would ask why, he always said "because they don't make a .46". If they had let us at the time, I would have carried one as well.
 
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Actually, .40 is the dominant LE caliber today.

But using what LE chooses as a litmus test, isn't always the best idea. When I first became a cop, we carried 158 grain round nose .38's, even though both hollow points and semiwadcutters had been around for many years. When law enforcement finally did go to hollow points, many adopted rounds like the 110 grain +P+, which was a dismal round, probably less effective than the round nose 158's.
I was just using that as an example of what I have seen and heard from people that have shot other people. The person that shot 2 people used a 9mm the first time and a 40 the second. 2 to the chest one to the head and there were much different results.

.40 became a popular choice before some of the better 9mm bullets came out, and the choice was based on the failures, or in some cases, supposed failures of earlier ammunition. Today, I doubt it would have become as popular. I know of a couple agencies that have traded their .40's for 9's.
Why soup up a 4 cylinder when you can buy a 6 or 8 cylinder to do the job. The only 9mm guns I own are not rated for todays popular ammo.



Well, with scientific data like that, who could blame you?
Making people no longer exist is better then shooting a blocks of gel in my opinion.



And that's why they make different calibers. I know a lot of guys that would never carry a "pipsqueak" round like a .40 as well. 25 years ago, I worked with a US Marshal on a joint task force who always carried a .45. When guys would ask why, he always said "because they don't make a .46". If they had let us at the time, I would have carried one as well.
But those guys wouldn't reccomend the pipsqueek caliber if asked about a 40 or 45 or say pick either if they gfelt that one was inferiuor, even if only slightly?

I thought I deleted the first post figuring it was not worth the effort since these type threads usually don't go over very well, but see you commented before I did.
I should have used the would NOT (why are they not using) in the first sentence. Because yes the 40 is more common.

I forgot to ask in the last post If the 40 is more stressful to the gun why are my 3rd gen 9mm's not rated for +p+ ammo?

BTW: I agree with your comments on the 45 vs 40, but the OP question was about 9mm vs 40 so I tried to not stray too far.
 
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Making people no longer exist is better then shooting a blocks of gel in my opinion.

Although I have my own "street" experience to call on as well, since I didn't manage to kill a couple hundred people in my career, I accept the efficacy of 10% properly calibrated ballistic gelatin as more accurate than my own experience, in predicting the effectiveness of projectiles in human tissue, since it was proven many years ago, largely through the efforts of a friend of mine, the late Gene Wolberg. Working with Dr. Martin Fackler, Gene compared the results of bullets pulled out of dead guys, with the same bullets fired into gel, and found a direct correlation.

As much as writers in gunzines, (many of whom had direct financial connections with ammunition companies selling whiz bang ammo), wanted to contest the science of wound ballistics to fit what they were trying to sell, 25 years later, the results of Wolbergs and Fackler's studies keep proving themselves correct. We know what works in pistol bullets.

And if your 9mm pistol was made in the last hundred years, it's perfectly capable of digesting today's most effective rounds in that caliber.

:Hint: They don't have +P+ written on the end of the box.

And to correct you, I never said 9mm is "just as good" as .40. I just pointed out that the advantage .40 has, is not as vast as many of those that carry it, think it is.
 
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And to correct you, I never said 9mm is "just as good" as .40. I just pointed out that the advantage .40 has, is not as vast as many of those that carry it, think it is.

Sorry, I just figured that since you said, neither would be a wrong choice that means that one is "just as good" as the other.

Elmer said:
You can choose either, you won't be making a "wrong" choice.
 

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