novalty
Member
The Square Deal B also uses proprietary dies from Dillon.
Why a turret press?
- Thread starter flyrobb
- Start date
fixitfred
Member
Not to argue with you but I think I'm lazier.It's more for us lazy people.
Heck I bought separate 38 special and 357 Mag dies and have them is separate turrets. At the time turrets were $10 or less.
I thought about getting separate dies too so I wouldn't have to readjust 38 to 357 and vice versa.
I think the RCBS turrets run $75.
It might take me 2-3 minutes to screw out then screw in 4 dies. I like to do it at a leisurely pace so it may be closer to 5 min.
Swap out the shell holder. Caliber change complete.
Last edited:
fixitfred
Member
Yea that's a deal breaker for me.
Price out what everything you need to change to a different caliber. That should answer your question. (besides the fact that it only uses their dies.
10mmauto
Member
I love my Lee Classic Turret. (I also love my SDB).
I guess I'm conflicted......
I guess I'm conflicted......
OP
You realize two loves can be a real problem. You've obviously not suffered through "Life Time Movies" with your wife.
OP
It starts to get pricey for sure. I want to be able to use the dies I have already purchased in my Spartan and whatever press I end up with. Really leaning toward the LCT.
Clovishound
Member
If you go with a turret, I would suggest picking up a powder check die. On the LCT, this will work if you use the 3 die sets. With .38, that is the way I go. .38 is such a deep cartridge, and the charges are so small, even eyeballing them in a loading block you could miss an over or underthrow if you aren't looking really carefully. The powder check die will catch some pretty small departures IME. I have played around with mine and found I can spot just a few tenths of a grain.
- Joined
- May 12, 2011
- Messages
- 1,547
- Reaction score
- 865
In engineering terms, a turret press reduces the external time over a single station press - not used for production - by simplifying setup. LIke a progressive press, additional turrets are inexpensive.
Typical usage would be to process many cartridges under a single die, then rotate the turret for the next stage. The powder dump would be external, using a loading block so each dump can be inspected before proceeding. Each cartridge would be placed and removed several times, but that's more efficient than rotating the turret for multiple operations on one cartridge, and more consistent.
A turret press might be the best choice if you weigh each powder load or use a bench priming tool, take special care to inspect the results of each stage, or process fewer than 100 rounds or so per session.
A progressive press is three or four times as efficient because each cartridge is handled once, and three or four operations are performed in each stroke. The powder measure is not as accurate as weighing each load, with a standard deviation of about 0.2 grains (or more). Even on the simplest progressive, you can load 300-400 rounds per hour, but avoid pushing the powder load limits closer than about 0.5 grains.
If you have a quick setup, with dies and powder funnels in a separate die block for each caliber, the setup time is minimal. The longest setup is if you change primer size, or if you have an automatic case or bullet feeder.
A progressive press is great if you load 300-400 rounds per session, and/or have several calibers to load, and use mostly the same components for each size.
Typical usage would be to process many cartridges under a single die, then rotate the turret for the next stage. The powder dump would be external, using a loading block so each dump can be inspected before proceeding. Each cartridge would be placed and removed several times, but that's more efficient than rotating the turret for multiple operations on one cartridge, and more consistent.
A turret press might be the best choice if you weigh each powder load or use a bench priming tool, take special care to inspect the results of each stage, or process fewer than 100 rounds or so per session.
A progressive press is three or four times as efficient because each cartridge is handled once, and three or four operations are performed in each stroke. The powder measure is not as accurate as weighing each load, with a standard deviation of about 0.2 grains (or more). Even on the simplest progressive, you can load 300-400 rounds per hour, but avoid pushing the powder load limits closer than about 0.5 grains.
If you have a quick setup, with dies and powder funnels in a separate die block for each caliber, the setup time is minimal. The longest setup is if you change primer size, or if you have an automatic case or bullet feeder.
A progressive press is great if you load 300-400 rounds per session, and/or have several calibers to load, and use mostly the same components for each size.
Last edited:
ozo
Member
If you loaded only one handgun caliber, the Square Deal is super.
I have loaded almost 50 yrs and bounced around with a lot of equipment. My Uncle always gave me a ration of **** and told me to quit playing and get a 550B......and I always had a solid reason not to. As friends and family followed his lead they ceased to even mention equipment any longer. I finally did get my own, and I could give you as many reasons as have been discussed here, pro and con, but I can simplify it this easily.........until you get a 550B you will never understand the reason you should have already gotten one.
I have loaded almost 50 yrs and bounced around with a lot of equipment. My Uncle always gave me a ration of **** and told me to quit playing and get a 550B......and I always had a solid reason not to. As friends and family followed his lead they ceased to even mention equipment any longer. I finally did get my own, and I could give you as many reasons as have been discussed here, pro and con, but I can simplify it this easily.........until you get a 550B you will never understand the reason you should have already gotten one.
Attachments
OP
In your scenario, with a powder check die, how would the turret be set up? Would priming be a separate operation?
fredj338
Member
Not really venom. Put locking rings on your dies, it's only screwing them in & out. That adds about 2min to the reloading process, no extra fiddling The issue is how many times you have to handle the case & pull the handle. Why a turret is only a marginal upgrade to a ss press. You are still pulling the handle the same number of times, just handling the case less.
If I were shooting less than 500rds a month & just starting out, I would look at a turret. If I even anticipated a higher rd count in the future, buy once, cry once & pony up for a Dillon 550. Again, Cost is just not an issue when buying gear that will last you 30-40yrs. Even a fully loaded 650, all the bells & whistles, sets you back a whopping $3/month. Few of us need such production. I run a 550 & 650, but honestly, my 550 is all I need for 1000-1200rds a month.
I run six presses and each has a purpose for my loading requirements. After so many years loading I've probably gone thru twelve presses - several like my old Co-Ax I wished I still had but I've settled on these six and they simply do the job accurately, consistently and easily. I run two Stars for match loading 38 midrange and 45acp -- they handle only these cartridges and they are 100% reliable and dead-on accurate and have been for about 60 years -- thirty with me. Mike Dillon owes those clever machinists at Star a big thanks for such a reliable design.
I run two Hollywoods, one big 12 station Universal turret and one supremely accurate and powerful single stage Senior. The other two presses are Lyman All-American turret heads. These are solid old style presses that once set up just do a great job on larger caliber pistol loads 357-454. If you see one these I suggest grabbing it as these are really well designed beefy little presses that can be set up on a bench top, not over the edge, either left or right handed.
The turret presses offer me a simple method of controlling every stage of the loading process which gives me plenty of hands on inspection time to cull out cases with split mouths, sloppy primer pockets, wrong head stamp etc etc. After decapping/sizing I load my blocks in lots of fifty, they are hand or bench primed then moved to the press and the process moves all the brass through one stage at a time, i.e., size the mouth if some bullets need special treatment, charge with powder, seat bullets and apply crimp per cartridge needs. In other words I do not rotate the head and use the dies sequentially but instead move the die and process the entire batch one step at a time. With a good turret press once the dies are set up you don't worry about re-setting since the depth is right on every time provided your brass length is consistent. . Since I do not throw powder from a press I can install and set up the fourth hole with a special seating or crimp die if I change bullets or need more or less crimp. Obviously there is a lot more to loading than this brief overview but hopefully you get the idea
This method is plenty fast and offers the careful reloader full control over each step. I don't own a bullet puller. For those who are concerned with speed and quantity my approach will sound overly complicated but quality and control take a bit more time. Nobody can tell me that their Dillon or any progressive allows the loader to feel primer seating depth or a sloppy blown out pocket. These presses, by their design, more or less remove tactile feed back at those stages where you need it the most such as seating primers, roll crimping etc. For those competing at the upper levels with deeper pockets or sponsors running thousands of rounds thru a Dillon or air operated Star, then chances are your running new or near new brass so concerns over brass wear aren't really ah serious concern. However I have to watch my cases closely and my match brass represents hours of prep and trimming so I kind of like to hang on to it as long as I can. In the final analysis a good turret head press is a very reliable and consistent press if used one loading stage at a time. There is a lot to be said for taking your time setting up the dies and leaving them locked down and ready to crank out a bucket full of high quality built 45Colt or 41 Mags from a press that can be quite affordable. I'm seeing quite a few turret heads selling for short money by shooters that want to join the big blue train. Though the turret press was originally billed years ago as a hand operated progressive style press most people I know have learned long ago that banging and turning a powder throw atop a press is not a good idea if you want consistent drops. Some powders are more tolerant but many aren't.
I run two Hollywoods, one big 12 station Universal turret and one supremely accurate and powerful single stage Senior. The other two presses are Lyman All-American turret heads. These are solid old style presses that once set up just do a great job on larger caliber pistol loads 357-454. If you see one these I suggest grabbing it as these are really well designed beefy little presses that can be set up on a bench top, not over the edge, either left or right handed.
The turret presses offer me a simple method of controlling every stage of the loading process which gives me plenty of hands on inspection time to cull out cases with split mouths, sloppy primer pockets, wrong head stamp etc etc. After decapping/sizing I load my blocks in lots of fifty, they are hand or bench primed then moved to the press and the process moves all the brass through one stage at a time, i.e., size the mouth if some bullets need special treatment, charge with powder, seat bullets and apply crimp per cartridge needs. In other words I do not rotate the head and use the dies sequentially but instead move the die and process the entire batch one step at a time. With a good turret press once the dies are set up you don't worry about re-setting since the depth is right on every time provided your brass length is consistent. . Since I do not throw powder from a press I can install and set up the fourth hole with a special seating or crimp die if I change bullets or need more or less crimp. Obviously there is a lot more to loading than this brief overview but hopefully you get the idea
This method is plenty fast and offers the careful reloader full control over each step. I don't own a bullet puller. For those who are concerned with speed and quantity my approach will sound overly complicated but quality and control take a bit more time. Nobody can tell me that their Dillon or any progressive allows the loader to feel primer seating depth or a sloppy blown out pocket. These presses, by their design, more or less remove tactile feed back at those stages where you need it the most such as seating primers, roll crimping etc. For those competing at the upper levels with deeper pockets or sponsors running thousands of rounds thru a Dillon or air operated Star, then chances are your running new or near new brass so concerns over brass wear aren't really ah serious concern. However I have to watch my cases closely and my match brass represents hours of prep and trimming so I kind of like to hang on to it as long as I can. In the final analysis a good turret head press is a very reliable and consistent press if used one loading stage at a time. There is a lot to be said for taking your time setting up the dies and leaving them locked down and ready to crank out a bucket full of high quality built 45Colt or 41 Mags from a press that can be quite affordable. I'm seeing quite a few turret heads selling for short money by shooters that want to join the big blue train. Though the turret press was originally billed years ago as a hand operated progressive style press most people I know have learned long ago that banging and turning a powder throw atop a press is not a good idea if you want consistent drops. Some powders are more tolerant but many aren't.
OP
I must admit, a strong case for the 550. I watched the Dillon video on the 550, pretty sweet.
In the LEE 4 station turret you would have to seat and crimp on the same die. So 3 dies and one Powder cop or check die.
This would of course be great for all those who hate the Lee FCD as that is just for dummies that make mistakes.
OP
You trying to start a riot...I'm not touching that one!In the LEE 4 station turret you would have to seat and crimp on the same die. So 3 dies and one Powder cop or check die.
This would of course be great for all those who hate the Lee FCD as that is just for dummies that make mistakes.
You trying to start a riot...I'm not touching that one!
You are very Wise Grasshopper.
Just saying that regardless of press with 4 stations if you use a powder check die, then you can not have a separate crimp die of any brand.
Last edited:
silentflyer
Member
Have used the same Lyman All American for 40+ years, .38,.357,.41,.44 and a few 22 Hornets. Use Skeeter loads for the wheel guns mostly Unique,296 and 2400, never had a problem. If I have everything prepped, about 100 rounds an hour.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
As I said before I have horse traded myself into a nice stable of presses but I could do very nicely with a Rock Chucker or accurate single and a Lyman All-American and some hand tools. That combo would cover all my bases short of full on competition demands. I never see these presses anymore but I'd buy them if I could. They are deceptively great presses simple in design, heavy clean castings and rigid where they need to be and very very portable. I used to mount mine on the tailgate at the range for work ups.
Regards
SLT223
Member
- Joined
- Jan 19, 2009
- Messages
- 3,534
- Reaction score
- 5,582
What complexity do you speak of? A progressive advances for you. Makes it much more difficult to duplicate a stage.
I would say operating a progressive is less demanding than operating a vehicle....specifically in terms of input once you have the powder measure set up for your load and have a powder check.
ChiefStealth
US Veteran
Someone mentioned home chores, yard work, etc.. That's the main reason I got the turret press. I used to load 9mm & .45ACP on a single stage. Worked fine. Just took to danged long. Hard to find the time. Now I load 100 rounds in about 40-45 minutes. I get the chores done and have time for reloading.
fredj338
Member
You are very Wise Grasshopper.
I've managed 10s of 1000s of rounds w/o a powder check die. Most of the time, your eyes do fine & you should be visually verifying every powder charge anyway, regardless of your backup powder check.
Btw, yes, a progressive like the 550 or 650 easily allow you to "feel" primers seating. Anyone telling you otherwise, just hasn't spent much time loading on one.
I mentioned this issue earlier and not trying to start a argument here but you can't be entirely serious on this claim really. I have run I think every model Dillon makes or has made from a Square Deal , 550 to 650 and while talking performance progressives a few Stars also and NO you cannot feel what is going on during primer seating in any of these presses. You may feel a slight bump or resistance at the stage but that is it. I might add the 550's at one time had some primer feed/seating problems that were an issue that may or may still be there I don't know. These are really good presses for the right kind of loader who wants cheaper ammo faster but they cannot be expected to offer the operator who is cranking the handle every 1-2 seconds any true feel on the pressure needed to properly seat a primer flush without crushing the cup and disturbing the anvil both very critical ignition elements for accuracy and reliability.
With new prepped cases I'm betting any problems are eliminated but the more times a bottleneck rifle case is fired the more the brass flows, the longer the case gets and the tighter the primer pocket gets resulting in all kinds of problems which much of the time shows up as vertical stringing on the target or click --no bang.
When you're moving at speed on these presses it is almost always the case that the handle-cranker rarely perceives any problems until after pooping out a box of defective cartridges. Just how easy is it to stop and conduct a priming feed-seat inspection in the middle of a 400-500 round per hour session ? Of course it can be done but I find it curious that bullet pullers are selling so well these days.
On blown out slack primer pockets I seriously doubt the 550-650 operator will have any idea and will continue to keep loading. On high pressure pistol cartridges slack pockets can cause real problems. I know my advice and opinions seem dated to many on this forum but hand or bench priming separately makes really good sense as ignition and primers can initiate many problems after the sear releases. When you consider most rifle firing pins protrude around .045-.065" and primer pockets and seating depths can vary .010-.015" it becomes obvious that there is roughly a 20% variable. Again for those who work with properly prepped new brass properly prepped this entire discussion is irrelevant -- maybe
Regards
Why quote me?
I do not use one either. I was answering the OPs question, he is interested in one. He asked how it would be set up.
You either look at the case and powder or you look at the warning flag pop up.
ozo
Member
You trying to start a riot...I'm not touching that one!
I use different brands of dies, but I do use a Lee FCD
in stage 4 on my 550B.
<<<<<Originally Posted by Rule3 View Post
In the LEE 4 station turret you would have to seat and crimp on the same die. So 3 dies and one Powder cop or check die.
This would of course be great for all those who hate the Lee FCD as that is just for dummies that make mistakes.>>>>>>>
Last edited:
fredj338
Member
Sure I am serious. I can feel a worn out primer pocket or whether the primer is fully seated, using a 550 or 650. Maybe my sense of feel is just diff than yours. To say you can't tell the diff, I just don't see why not. So for me, your statement doesn't fly, for you, that well may be the case.
fredj338
Member
Why not? Just pointing out one rarely "needs" a powder check die.
SLT223
Member
- Joined
- Jan 19, 2009
- Messages
- 3,534
- Reaction score
- 5,582
Sorry, brother. Completely disagree with you. I can even tell a sideways large pistol primer by the feel of the handle. Yes, you can absolutely tell whats going on during the priming back stroke by the feel in handle...at least I can with a high degree of confidence. Haven't set off primer on the deck yet. I've been loading about 1000 rounds a month since last August on a 650.
