Why I don't Open Carry

[Smoke]

off topic...

There is nothing "ironic" about folks having a lively discussion about gun carry issues in a gun carry discussion forum.

An example of ironic might be someone posting a lengthy lecture about folks wasting their time posting.

...back on topic

I see what you did there

 

[Mister X]

Since this is "seen on a relatively frequent basis" you shouldn't have any problem posting numerous verifiable links to news reports that document your claim.

Alternatively, you can retract it

We'll wait

Open carry is not all that common among civilians, but I see news stories of folks robbed of their own firearm on what I would label a fairly regular basis considering how uncommon it is.

The Perils of Open Carry | Active Response Training

Man Practicing Open Carry Rights Gets Robbed Of His Gun

Unarmed man attempts to rob EMU student of holstered gun

Opelika man robbed with his own gun, car & money stolen - MSNewsNow.com - Jackson, MS

Syracuse man was killed while being robbed of his gun, prosecutor says | syracuse.com

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/20...p-dont-chase-the-guy-who-just-stole-your-gun/

 

[Smoke]

Open carry doesn't piss me off in general.

The tone of your posts suggests otherwise

As for the guy in the park, he was looking for a confrontation and he got one.

There are certain parts of this story I'm not allowed to comment on here. What I can tell you is that the guy was on his way back to his car from a parade he was a South Dakota resident who had not lived in Co Springs for the 6 months required to get a Colorado Permit so his only option was open carry.

Yeah, the cop was unaware of the legality of open carry, which just goes to show how rare it must be in that area. Thank God for the "pioneer".

Open carry is not rare in Colorado Springs it's not an everyday occurrence but it's not "rare".

The arrest was made based on a city ordinance that was 10 years out of date.

The police had been aware that he was open carrying on the street while watching (and possibly participating in) the parade but they didn't detain him until he walked down a public sidewalk that bordered a city park. As a side note after this incident the city sent crews around to every park in town to check the signs and take down any sign that said that firearms were prohibited in any park.

It's Easter morning. Kids are opening eggs and we gott get ready to go to church in my OC legal, gun friendly state. Wonder how many guns I see today? Wanna bet ZERO?

Ok how is that at all relevant? I didn't see anyone OCing at church today either I didn't see anyone in a Kansas City Royals jersey either does that mean that only idiots like the Royals?

Plenty of reasons behind my opinion. You just choose to ignore them.

All the reasons in the world don't make your opinion any more than just that youropinion and remember I don't open carry either but unlike you I don't choose to belittle those who do.

There is no tangible "proof" that supports either argument.

Then why not let folks open carry or not as they see fit without denigrating them?

When you Ask an OC person why they do it, it's the same "this is my right".

And that's all the reason they really need. What other civil liberties would you take away from others based on your disapproval of them ?

It's my right to protest at a military funeral. To hold up signs calling the dead soldier a murderer. To tell the grieving family their loved one is in Hell. Who here supports that? And if you do, how would you feel if it was one of your loved one?

Yes, it is and when I took an oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies foreign and domestic there were no caveats that I didn't have to support Rights I didn't like.

Personally, I think that anybody who has the time to stand on a street corner for hours at a time trying to "educate" people could be making better use of their time.

No one is discussing political activism we're discussing open carry as a choice people get to make

The Park Pioneer could be in a gym, for example.

What kind of shape are you in? I notice you spend a lot of time insulting open carriers based on their looks. You call them retarded, you denigrate them for being out of shape you don't necessarily refute their arguments but you sure do personally attack them a lot.

Why is that?

 

[Smoke]

Open carry is not all that common among civilians, but I see news stories of folks robbed of their own firearm on what I would label a fairly regular basis considering how uncommon it is.

The Perils of Open Carry | Active Response Training

Man Practicing Open Carry Rights Gets Robbed Of His Gun

Unarmed man attempts to rob EMU student of holstered gun

Opelika man robbed with his own gun, car & money stolen - MSNewsNow.com - Jackson, MS

Syracuse man was killed while being robbed of his gun, prosecutor says | syracuse.com

You really should read your cites before posting them

The Perils of Open Carry | Active Response Training

Op-Ed piece lists one example of an attempted robbery (see your third cite)

Man Practicing Open Carry Rights Gets Robbed Of His Gun

Already discussed the guy was OCing an empty gun

Unarmed man attempts to rob EMU student of holstered gun


Attempted robbery see (1st cite)

url=http://www.msnewsnow.com/story/21837023/opelika-man-robbed-with-his-own-gun-car-money-stolen]Opelika man robbed with his own gun, car & money stolen - MSNewsNow.com - Jackson, MS[/url]

No mention of open carry at all

Syracuse man was killed while being robbed of his gun, prosecutor says | syracuse.com[/QUOTE]

Again, the words "open carry" don't even appear in the article

Thanks for playing though

We'll be waiting for that retraction

 

[Mister X]

My original post didn't specify civilian, LEO or military. Open carry simply isn't that common among civilians. Simply look at the stats of officers killed by their on firearms. Disarm attempts are even relatively common among our Military personnel under current conditions. If open carry among civilians was more commonplace, you'd see similar numbers. Even so, the examples are still there.

 

[Smoke]

My original post didn't specify civilian, LEO or military. Open carry simply isn't that common among civilians. Simply look at the stats of officers killed by their on firearms. Disarm attempts are even relatively common among our Military personnel under current conditions. If open carry among civilians
was more commonplace, you'd see similar numbers. Even so, the examples are still there.

You stated the OPEN carriers were routinely disarmed when asked to back your claim you provided ONE example.

Now you're claiming that Service Members are being targeted for their weapons.

Did you really think I WASN'T going to ask for a cite?

Up it

 

[Mister X]

You stated the OPEN carriers were routinely disarmed when asked to back your claim you provided ONE example.

Now you're claiming that Service Members are being targeted for their weapons.

Did you really think I WASN'T going to ask for a cite?

Up it

Are police officers not open carriers? And another civilian case FWIW http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/20...p-dont-chase-the-guy-who-just-stole-your-gun/

As far as service members being targeted is concerned http://www.dtic.mil/get-tr-doc/pdf?AD=ADA612103

 

[Philadelphia Patriot]

Are police officers not open carriers? And another civilian case FWIW Personal Defense Tip: Don't Chase the Guy Who Just Stole Your Gun - The Truth About Guns

As far as service members being targeted is concerned http://www.dtic.mil/get-tr-doc/pdf?AD=ADA612103

Yeah, but cops go after criminals and attempt to apprehend them. They also respond to calls of dangerous people. They're more likely to shoot at or fight people, hence the higher number of people fighting them and trying to disarm them.

Regular people try to avoid danger and, in theory, only engage people in a defensive role. Regular people are less like to have criminals attempt to disarm them since they do not pursue offenders.

 

[Smoke]

Are police officers not open carriers? And another civilian case FWIW Personal Defense Tip: Don't Chase the Guy Who Just Stole Your Gun - The Truth About Guns

As far as service members being targeted is concerned http://www.dtic.mil/get-tr-doc/pdf?AD=ADA612103

I'll go ahead and accept this as your retraction

 

[ClayCow]

Are police officers not open carriers? And another civilian case FWIW http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/20...p-dont-chase-the-guy-who-just-stole-your-gun/

As far as service members being targeted is concerned http://www.dtic.mil/get-tr-doc/pdf?AD=ADA612103

Im so confused as to what youre trying to use that dtic paper for. Did you actually read it? What is your argument? That in a ground to ground encounter the enemy will try to go for the weapon? If thats the case youre trying to prove then yes, it is true.

If youre trying to prove theyre being disarmed at a frequently. Youre absolutely wrong. 7.9% of those surveyed had faced hand to hand combat, of those who encountered it, the study never states how many were disarmed. Even assuming 100% were disarmed (highly unlikely as most were checkpoints) thats only 7.9%disarmed. A bit far for "frequent" basis

 

[ladder13]

The anti's are a spunky bunch aren't they?

 

[Mister X]

Im so confused as to what youre trying to use that dtic paper for. Did you actually read it? What is your argument? That in a ground to ground encounter the enemy will try to go for the weapon? If thats the case youre trying to prove then yes, it is true.

If youre trying to prove theyre being disarmed at a frequently. Youre absolutely wrong. 7.9% of those surveyed had faced hand to hand combat, of those who encountered it, the study never states how many were disarmed. Even assuming 100% were disarmed (highly unlikely as most were checkpoints) thats only 7.9%disarmed. A bit far for "frequent" basis

Just that attempted disarms in that particular context occur relatively frequently irrelevant of whether it was successful or not. Open carry in any context carries with it a higher risk that someone will try to take that weapon from you. That's been my point all along, maybe I didn't make that clear. For me, the risk is simply too high and why I would advise against open carry. If someone comes to a different conclusion, that's their choice and they are free to do so.

 

[Muss Muggins]

Just that attempted disarms in that particular context occur relatively frequently irrelevant of whether it was successful or not. Open carry in any context carries with it a higher risk that someone will try to take that weapon from you. That's been my point all along, maybe I didn't make that clear. For me, the risk is simply too high and why I would advise against open carry. If someone comes to a different conclusion, that's their choice and they are free to do so.

You're trying to compare military operations in a hostile environment to a civilian with a barbecue rig?

 

[ClayCow]

You're trying to compare military operations in a hostile environment to a civilian with a barbecue rig?

Well he had a good point as poorly as he initially framed it. If someone knows you have an item which can kill you faster than bare hands, of course theyll go for it. The possibility if that happening much less being successful? No studies on that which have been shown.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

These links sure have been informative.

Knowledge is power and it liberates! Now I'm going to feel much safer hanging out with armed thugs smoking cigs on the street corner at 2AM.

 

[JohnHancock]

Wow, this thread got heated since last I checked it! As for me, I was raised with firearms and have owned them practically all my life. My old man lives in a rural area and won't check his mailbox without a large OC. When I visit him or go hunting, I also OC and I'm proud to have the ability to do so. Luckily I live in a state in which many of the Dems are even pro-gun! However, I live and work in the city with a large number of transplants and a fair amount of crime.The element of surprise combined with the risk of alarming some mamby-pamby transplant keeps me CC. Besides, my wife, who was raised by a father who regularly OCed, says I look like a "goober" when I OC.

 

[ClayCow]

People say dress around your gun. But i refuse to give up fashion. Im pretty sure i dont print. I do have a larger upper body and as long as im more upside down triangle shaped, it should help conceal my gun

 

[keith44spl]

Boys, this here thread's got legs!

Although, I open carry and conceal carry (bug) I ain't never been
jumped, mugged er robbed nary a time, in my entire life.

And, I never looked down my nose at others for any reason,
lit'l on for carrying a sidearm any which way they chose to do so.



.

 

[mustangman]

Sorry I'm late, did I miss anything?. Here's my 0.02 for what its worth.

The Bloombergers don't care about banning OC, CC, or whatever carry, they just want your guns. They want an opening, and "divide and conquer" is the way to do it. Nothing could help or please them more than infighting in the pro 2A ranks.

Personal opinions about how some choose to carry is irrelevant and should be put aside for the good of all gun owners. These laws help everyone that owns a gun, not just a certain subset.

If pro gun laws aren't moving forward, then they're going backwards, and next thing you know, you're battling for CC, or whatever type of carry they can sink their teeth into.

We should all be "pro gun", and let the individual decide for himself. Everyone bemoans the lack of personal responsibility that permeates this country, well here's a chance to let people do that without being infringed upon by anyone.

 

[Reggie Dunlop]

I'm not sure you read the story but the guy was open carrying an unloaded gun.

Think stupidity might have played a part in this incident?

Surely if this is a common occurrence you can find numerous other verifiable examples right?

We'll wait

It matters not if the fellow was stupid, many stupid people open carry and that is what's troubling, and it matters not if his gun was not loaded, his open carry made him a target of opportunity.
You can spin this any way you like but you can not deny the fact that a person who was open carrying had his weapon taken.

 

[Mainsail]

You can spin this any way you like but you can not deny the fact that a person who was open carrying had his weapon taken.

So how would you spin the concealed carriers whose guns get taken? Oh wait, everyone who isn't showing a gun openly is a potential concealed carrier, and they get robbed on a daily basis.

So if open carry makes you a target, and concealed carry makes you a target, and no carry makes you a target; do you ever leave your basement?



EDIT to add: By the time you finish reading this post, another person not carrying openly will be the victim of a violent crime. Maybe it's no so black-&white.

 

[RobzGuns]

It matters not if the fellow was stupid, many stupid people open carry and that is what's troubling, and it matters not if his gun was not loaded, his open carry made him a target of opportunity.
You can spin this any way you like but you can not deny the fact that a person who was open carrying had his weapon taken.

If this is the story I'm remembering, from Last Year, this guy was not actually 'Open Carrying' as we're discussing the term. According to one telling of the story, Yes, he was carrying the gun 'openly', but it was being 'carried' in the manufacteror's box, not in a holster and showing it to a friend, when they were approached by the perpetrator and robbed.

So... Does that actually count as an 'Open Carry' encounter?

 

[Reggie Dunlop]

So how would you spin the concealed carriers whose guns get taken? Oh wait, everyone who isn't showing a gun openly is a potential concealed carrier, and they get robbed on a daily basis.

So if open carry makes you a target, and concealed carry makes you a target, and no carry makes you a target; do you ever leave your basement?



EDIT to add: By the time you finish reading this post, another person not carrying openly will be the victim of a violent crime. Maybe it's no so black-&white.

Exactly the type of spin (bs) we expect. Good job!
Edit to add: By the time you finish reading this another selfish person open carrying wil make a spectacle of themselves and continue to give all gun owners a bad name. Thanks a ton.

 

[BC38]

Guys... guys... you're wasting your breath. It would appear we've got a couple of folks here who've been drinking the liberal Bloomberg cool-aid.

They are citing the "Truth (actually LIES) About Guns" site as their source for goodness sakes! What does that tell you? Logic isn't going to work in this case.

 

[7shooter]

Last week I was waiting for a haircut at a Great Clips when a man finished his haircut and stood up and his holstered pistol became visible. I thought he would immediately put his jacket on which would have concealed it but he didn't. I made the assumption ( maybe not correct ) that he likely had a carry permit so was legal. I think most people in the waiting room saw what I saw. He then paid and sat down to wait for the woman he was with to finish. Amazingly he sat with his back to the door when he could have sat near me with my back to the wall. He did not appear to be in any way alert to his surroundings. My wife came in to see when I would be done and she saw his gun in his open top holster by the door and said she could have easily snatched it.

No one in the shop seemed concerned and nobody called the cops. This was in a town right next to the town that I described in starting this discussion. Interesting contrast to the other situation.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

It matters not if the fellow was stupid, many stupid people open carry and that is what's troubling, and it matters not if his gun was not loaded, his open carry made him a target of opportunity.

To the contrary, stupidity matters.

Standing on a street corner at 2AM smoking cigs and chatting with armed street thugs is stupid. It's begging for trouble and making yourself a target. Doesn't matter if you're carrying a gun or not.

Anyone not understating this reality, there's not enough bandwidth to explain it.

 

[ladder13]

Edit to add: By the time you finish reading this another selfish person open carrying wil make a spectacle of themselves and continue to give all gun owners a bad name.

Be sure to provide us with pictures.

 

[LimaCharlie]

To the contrary, stupidity matters.

Standing on a street corner at 2AM smoking cigs and chatting with armed street thugs is stupid. It's begging for trouble and making yourself a target. Doesn't matter if you're carrying a gun or not.

Anyone not understating this reality, there's not enough bandwidth to explain it.

Oregon has open carry but allows local governments to restrict it. He was in Multnomah County which allows unloaded guns to be open carried. He had bought the .22 that day and was showing the unloaded gun to his cousin out of the box. Stupid? Yes. Open carry? No.

 

[keith44spl]

Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop
Edit to add: By the time you finish reading this another selfish person open carrying wil make a spectacle of themselves and continue to give all gun owners a bad name.

Be sure to provide us with pictures.

Yes, by all means Reggie, we like pictures here.........

Oh, if you see a feller wearin' this rig up there in the great pacific northwest....



Tell him Ol Dave sad hey!!!


.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

I'm sure the good people of Multnomah County sleep better at night knowing OC armed robbers are carrying unloaded guns. If they would also outlaw robbery then Mr Coleman might still have his gun to carry around in the box at 2AM while he's hangining out on street corners smoking cigs with armed thugs.

I might have to rethink the arguments about OC. The evidence in these links is quite compelling.