Why isn't 357 sig popular?

[StatesRightist]

Because of its relatively high velocity for a handgun round, the .357 SIG has a very flat trajectory, extending the effective range. However, it does not quite reach the performance of the .357 Magnum with bullets heavier than 125 grains (8.1 g), with the same usable barrel lengths, the typical commercial loadings using 125-grain (8.1 g) bullets, fired from a four-inch (102 mm) barrel; a typical commercial .357 Magnum load propels a 125-grain (8.1 g) bullet to 1,450 ft/s (440 m/s), while a typical .357 SIG load propels the same bullet to 1,350 ft/s (410 m/s), with only a usable 2.85-inch (72 mm) barrel. Specialty loads, such as Double Tap Ammunition, are able to propel a 125-grain (8.1 g) bullet to 1,450 ft/s (440 m/s) from a four-inch (102 mm) barrel. Offsetting this general slight disadvantage in performance is the fact that semi-automatic pistols tend to carry considerably more ammunition than revolvers.
Also like the Tokarev, the .357 SIG works well when shooting through barriers. There has been a documented case in Texas where a police officer's .45 round did not penetrate a tractor-trailer's shell, but a .357 SIG round from a backup officer's gun did, killing the suspect inside. The round's ability to penetrate barriers is the main reason for its adoption by law enforcement agencies. However, other documented police shootings have confirmed the round's ability to not over penetrate the body, even though ballistic gelatin shows 16 inches (410 mm) of penetration through heavy clothing (125 grain Speer Gold Dot). The Virginia State Police have had several documented officer-related shootings involving the .357 Sig, and in every case, not only were the felons stopped instantly with one shot (except one who was shot several times while attempting to murder an officer), the bullet either didn't exit the felon, or was stopped in the clothing upon exiting, proving that even at such high velocities, the round when used with adequate expanding hollowpoints will not over penetrate soft tissue. The same department has also reported that attacking dogs have been stopped dead in their tracks by a single shot, whereas the former subsonic 147 grain 9 mm duty rounds would require multiple shots to incapacitate the animals.[11]

OK, I never said the .357 Sig was a bad round, just as I never said 9mm was a bad round. So if you like the round, you should carry it, there is nothing wrong with it. It's a good round, as is the 9mm.

One thing though, the quote does not support the fact that the .357 Sig in every case except one, by the VA State police is a one stop round over the long term. You have an early report on the round. You can't draw that conclusion based on an early report based on several cases. I've seen a subsequent report that states they are having good results out of the round, but not miraculous results, which is what all but one long term would be. Make sense?

 

[CCWKY]

OK, I never said the .357 Sig was a bad round, just as I never said 9mm was a bad round. So if you like the round, you should carry it, there is nothing wrong with it. It's a good round, as is the 9mm.

One thing though, the quote does not support the fact that the .357 Sig in every case except one, by the VA State police is a one stop round over the long term. You have an early report on the round. You can't draw that conclusion based on an early report based on several cases. I've seen a subsequent report that states they are having good results out of the round, but not miraculous results, which is what all but one long term would be. Make sense?

I agree with that, I am not an advocate of 357 Sig at all. I had just remembered that article when I came across this post. Just passing along some information and I have came accross this info on several different sites, although I do not know exactly how old the information is, it mentions Double Tap Ammo and it has only been around since 2002 so the info is less than 10 years old.

 

[cubguy]

I liked it enough that I bought a second barrel for my SIG 239 in .357 SIG. It's my EDC now.

 

[Waltherman]

As a former LEO I liked it well enought to change my main carry platform
to a H-K USPc. Lightweight,13 rd cap and the best of German Eng, but to each his own. For me it's the 357 Sig in Speer Gold Dot.

 

[offensive]

For carry, it offers 357 Magnum ballistics in a high-cap semi auto with lower felt recoil and lower muzzle flash than the tried and true wheelguns. Not a bad resume' indeed.

I have a full size M&P in 357 Sig with a spare 40 S&W bbl. I am quite pleased with this arrangement.

I own a .40 full size and bought the .357 barrel

 

[jdickson397]

Well, I had the opportunity to ask several veteran North Carolina Highway Patrol officers what they thought about 357 Sig. The official sidearm cartridge for them is currently the 40 S&W which they both said was a good cartridge. At one time, however, they were issued 357 Sig and, to this day, they much prefer it since the 40 S&W sometimes bounces off of windshields whereas the 357 Sig penetrates right through.

For competition USPSA shooters, however, the 357 Sig offers no advantages as was detailed in some earlier posts.

 

[colt22man]

For competition purposes, USPSA specifically, the .357 does not meet the minimum caliber diameter for major power factor. Limited, limited 10, Single Stack and Revolver divisions require a minimum caliber of .40 to score major. Any caliber under .40 cal. in these divisions scores minor which translates into lost points for any hits on targets other than an "A" hit. Production division minimum caliber is 9mm. Minimum power factor for production division is 125. The .357 sig probably hits the 165+ power factor so now shot recovery is the issue when a power factor of 125 is the minimum requirement. Competitors reload 9mm to about 130 PF, reducing recoil, allowing faster shot recovery, not to mention the expense of factory .357 sig ammo is considerably more. When you go thru 10K - 15K rounds a yr. & more cost is a huge driver. The .357 sig is also at a disadvantage in open division due to magazine capacity. The 9mm & .38 super open division shooters can load up to 30 rounds in a 170 mm magazine. The .357 would max a 170 mm magazine out at about 25 or 26. On a 28+ round course of fire the 9mm/.38 super guys don't have to perform a magazine change, .357 sig shooters do, so the .357 sig guys are already at a competitive disadvantage. For competitive purposes the .357 sig is a dinosaur. For carry/personal protection/law enforcement, it is a very effective cartridge.

 

[growr]

sig

For competition purposes, USPSA specifically, the .357 does not meet the minimum caliber diameter for major power factor. Limited, limited 10, Single Stack and Revolver divisions require a minimum caliber of .40 to score major. Any caliber under .40 cal. in these divisions scores minor which translates into lost points for any hits on targets other than an "A" hit. Production division minimum caliber is 9mm. Minimum power factor for production division is 125. The .357 sig probably hits the 165+ power factor so now shot recovery is the issue when a power factor of 125 is the minimum requirement. Competitors reload 9mm to about 130 PF, reducing recoil, allowing faster shot recovery, not to mention the expense of factory .357 sig ammo is considerably more. When you go thru 10K - 15K rounds a yr. & more cost is a huge driver. The .357 sig is also at a disadvantage in open division due to magazine capacity. The 9mm & .38 super open division shooters can load up to 30 rounds in a 170 mm magazine. The .357 would max a 170 mm magazine out at about 25 or 26. On a 28+ round course of fire the 9mm/.38 super guys don't have to perform a magazine change, .357 sig shooters do, so the .357 sig guys are already at a competitive disadvantage. For competitive purposes the .357 sig is a dinosaur. For carry/personal protection/law enforcement, it is a very effective cartridge.

Stated as well as can be!! Well done.......

 

[photoracer]

I agree with most of this also. As a competition shooter I do not shoot the 357 Sig in matches. However I do carry an H-K USP-C in 357 Sig. When I use the gun in IDPA I switch to an EFK 9mm barrel (ammo is cheaper). All my other USPSA guns are in 9x23mm. The state I grew up in currently issues 357 Sig to their sworn officers and most prefer the caliber to others they have used.

 

[Low-ready]

The .357sig is a popular caliber....That is what the original question is correct?
It's really regional though. People like to carry what the police in there area carry. since most Police Depts. carry .40 that is what is most popular with the public. Texas for instance DPS carries .357sig in 226's. Most everybody else carries Glock 22. Guess what the two most popular calibers are in Tx. .357sig, and .40S&W (.22lr, and 30-30 win. actually) For carry though its .40, and .357sig.
There is a trend in L.E. SWAT starting where heavy sub-sonic 9mm is getting more, and more popular again I think its a combination of suppressers sweeping the nation, better ammo, training costs, Etc. The truth of the matter is that at any "team event" your handgun is secondary and when ALL handgun calibers suck it really is "splitting hairs". It would be interesting to see how many patrol officers follow suit, since the same influence is there that I spoke about with the public. Officers tend to want to carry what SWAT carries.

 

[TAKJR]

It is a cool caliber to own. It may not EXACTLY duplicate the .357 magnum round, but it is good enough for me. The Glock 33 replaced my SP101 in .357 in an ankle holster. More rounds and with a few extra magazines, it is a great set up. Although I still have the SP101, I favor the .357 Sig more.

Personal preference, I guess.

TAKJR

 

[novalty]

The 2 things I disliked about shooting .357 Sig are:

1. Cost
2. Recoil.

One thing that is nice about .357 Sig, when the ammo shortage was at it's peak .357 Sig was still more likely to be available at the local Wally-World as it is less popular.

 

[RodCurrie]

I bought my P229 Sig in .40S&W to replace my S&W Highway Patrolman bored out to .44 Special, which I carried when backpacking in Black Bear country. Unless I was willing to have a round under the hammer I had only five shots available and damn slow reloading times at that. So..................,

1. I swapped out my Sig .40 bbl and put in a ported Barstow .357 bbl @/6 inches length. This length sticks out from the slide enough to where the porting works fairly well. I find that the ported .357 'jumps' less than the .40 and seems to be quite accurate. The 'felt' recoil in this combination seems less as well. Also, it allowed me to carry a a total of three quick-to-load magazines, rather than a handful of .44 Special rounds rolling around in my pocket. In my final analysis if I can't stop a Black Bear w/36 rounds of .357 I guess I deserve to be eaten.

2. 'No', I don't shoot in matches, but if I did I would seek out .22 matches so that I didn't go broke.

3. 'Yes', .357 ammo is unbelievable high in price. If I weren't so damn lazy I'd take up reloading again because I really do like that Sig 229 in .357.

Well............... to each his own, right?

Rod

 

[zoom6zoom]

I watched a guy using 357SIG at an IDPA match where the range was about half the normal lighting. The muzzle flash damn near blinded him.

 

[Will Carry]

I can't understand how all these "Arm Chair" ballistics experts seem to disagree on this. There must not be a clear cut answer to the question. I looked at ballistics data, then formed my own opinion.

 

[Frank237]

There are so many wrong assumptions and sheer BAD thinking in this discussion that it's simply staggering.

 

[JayFramer]

The .357 Sig is a devastatingly effective round, and this has been proven in a street record extending well over a decade of LE use.

It penetrates better than .40 or .45, and has tremendously improved stop power vs. the 9mm loads. Ever wonder why they came out with 9mm +P in the first place? 9mm simply WAS NOT getting the job done on the streets. You even see +P+ loads now that are all trying to do one thing, gain the massive stop power of the old .357 magnum wheelgun. Well guess what? It hasn't happened yet. 9mm is still 9mm, no matter how much frame-wrecking extra pressure you try and cram into it.

The .357 Sig was designed to duplicate the performance of the legendary 125 grain .357 magnum loads from 4" revolver barrels, and it suceeeds with gusto in this realm. Don't think theirs much of a difference in 9mm wounds vs. .357 Sig wounds? Well how about 4-5 inches of extra penetration in IWB standard 4 layer denim ballistics gelatin calibrated, and a wound channel 50-75% wider, for about 10 extra cubic inches of wound damage per round, or roughly 2-300% more tissue damage PER ROUND.

The simply fact is the .357 Sig is getting the job done, wheres the 9mm IS NOT. It should be no surprise that departments were getting rid of 9mm platforms as soon as .40 S&W was available, simply because the 9 was not doing it and departments desperatly needed ANYTHING with more power.

The .357 Sig is a newer round, and I think it is only a matter of time before we see more deps issuing guns/calibers in the cartridge. It is my personal opinion that .357 Sig is simply the most effective service cartridge ever devised. JMHO.

YMMV.

 

[kshock]

I tried the 357 Sig (Sig 226) in a PPC Duty gun match. Dept. furnished the ammo (it is expensive). At the close range one handed stage, muzzle flip was outrageous and near impossible to keep on the x ring when shooting fast. I worked several officer involved shootings and noticed the same pattern, muzzle flip caused the shots to string upward and in many cases over the suspect. The department is going to go back to the 45's (Sig 227's) in the future, we only wish the 357 Sig performed as well as all these posters claim. It has been a dismal failure in real life performance for us.

 

[ken158]

I recently saw some information about the Virginia State Police that have been using 357 Sig for many years, if I remember correctly every officer involved shooting using 357 Sig has resulted in a one shot stop except for one incident. I would call that pretty impressive.

I am not VSP but worked with many of those guys over the years. They absolutely love the 357 Sig after going from model 64's to 10mm S&W's (FBI model), then to Sig 228 in 9mm and finally to the Sig in 357. Their shooting incidents noted above are correct.

 

[-db-]

I bought my P229 Sig in .40S&W to replace my S&W Highway Patrolman bored out to .44 Special, which I carried when backpacking in Black Bear country. Unless I was willing to have a round under the hammer I had only five shots available and damn slow reloading times at that. So..................

You can safely carry a round under the hammer in any modern S&W revolver. It's with older single action revolvers where one keeps a chamber empty.