Why the decline of S&W 40?

[38SPL HV]

Although I’m a revolver enthusiast, I’m hearing a lot that the 40 S&W is out of favor nowadays.

I thought it was the ideal police cartridge with more than adequate power and excellent platforms to shoot it in.

What are the reasons for this pistol cartridge’s decline?

 

[Sevens]

The .40 became popular because the (general theory) was that the 9mm was lacking and LE organizations felt that the .40 was an upgrade. Come 1994 and the private sector was now limited to 10-round capacity and there was (seemingly) no advantage left for the 9mm over the .40.

As bullet technology improved, so did the reputation for 9mm performance, and when the AWB sunsetted in 2004, the 9mm had it’s capacity advantage restored.

The .40’s decline was more of a resurgence of 9mm than anything specific to the .40 itself. .40 S&W offers an energy advantage over 9mm, at the cost of capacity and controllability.

That’s just a short summary of ebbs and flows in politics, money and cartridge evolution. It’s difficult to make a Cliff’s Notes version of something that evolved over roughly 25 years.

 

[GB]

Out of favor because of its decline as a law enforcement standard. People and Government have a tendency to float on the wind. Wonder nines were the rage in the 80s and 90s. Then poor planning (and a botched shoot out in the late 80s) by the FBI brought about the 10mm which many agents couldn't shoot well so they came up with the 40. It was everything the 9 wished it was. So the LE community sort of followed the FBI and the 40 was the new rage. With the diversity of LE and the decline in shooting ability (the 40 isn't necessarily an easy round to master, especially with the smaller lighter guns used by plain clothes and smaller stature officers) , plus with the improvement of ammo performance across the board but especially in 9mm it was easier to go to the 9 than train up to the 40. You have just read my opinion, for what it is worth. Now I will retire to the bunker (With my TP and ammo) and await the incoming.

 

[fishwishin]

I have four .40 caliber handguns in my home and three 9mm's. I see value in both offerings and the .40 is not seen as a stepchild by me. That said however, the 9 offerings of today are better than they were 30 years ago when the 9 was king! When you factor in the mag capacity the 9 may very well be the wiser choice.

 

[CH4]

Don’t worry, give it a few years until the FBI decides the 9mm isn’t working and the .40 will be the flavor of the month, again.

 

[biku324]

^^^^^What he said.

 

[Breakaway500]

I see the "decline" of the 40 S&W as a great buying opportunity. Kind of like what revolvers went through in the 90s. Remember that old box of wooden grips at the gun shows..$10 buys any pair? The eb and flow of demand..

 

[CH4]

I see the "decline" of the 40 S&W as a great buying opportunity. Kind of like what revolvers went through in the 90s. Remember that old box of wooden grips at the gun shows..$10 buys any pair? The eb and flow of demand..

Yeah, remember during the 80s the first thing we did when we got our new Smiths home was to throw the wood combats, targets and magnas in a box or drawer and throw on a set of pachmayrs.

 

[ejr10mm]

I like the 40. Carried it for many years on the job. Put a lot of animals down with one shot. Plenty of oomf. I think that it was a generational thing that lead to its decrease in popularity. The 9mm is much easier for the smaller stature LEO to qualify with now days. I am 6 ft tall, not super tall and when I was the new guy 13 yrs ago, I was average height amongst the more seasoned guys. Fast forward to today. Im the seasoned guy and I feel like a giant compared to all the little guys they have hired recently. We use to carry Sig P229's which are really nice guns and now we have Glocks. The Glocks aren't bad and serve us well but they aren't like my old 229. None of the newer guys bought their 229's when we switched. They all prefer tactical Tupperware. Lastly they all get a laugh out of me carrying my M69 off duty until they take one of my 44 rounds and hold it against their 9mm.

 

[sheppard]

The fact is that for many folks the .40 is not a pleasant caliber to shoot, especially .40 cal loads with bullets less than 180 grains. The end results of shootings with 9mm, .40cal and .45 cal are equivalent.

 

[alwslate]

There are two reasons for the decline of the .40 S&W. One is the 9mm
and the other is the .45 ACP.

 

[sodacan]

There are two reasons for the decline of the .40 S&W. One is the 9mm
and the other is the .45 ACP.

I agree. The 40 S&W would be the Choice of Goldilocks if there was porridge, a bed and a gun in The Three Bears. Personally, I've never bought into the "compromise" calibers, which is what I consider the 40 and the 41magnum, for instance. I'm a huge fan of 45acp, and I always liked the 9mm. Shoot what you like and like what you shoot.

 

[stansdds]

9mm ammo is cheaper than 40 S&W ammo and that is a major driving factor in federal, state, and local LEO agencies dumping the 40 in favor of the 9.

Other factors would include better bullet technology, less recoil with the 9, and less battering of pistols with the 9. Most 40 S&W pistols are based on 9mm pistols and the increased recoil shortens the lifespan of at least some of these pistols.

 

[mckenney99]

While I agree with "GB", and generally I am not a big conspiracy theorist, consider the following. When did the PUSH for LE to change over-back to new 9mm guns and ammo occur? Look at the timing. After the 2016 Presidential election the slump in firearms sales began and the market became saturated with firearms at bargain prices. How could the firearms manufactures and ammo manufacturers create a new market? Convince the heads of LE that their current firearms and ammo were "not effective enough and too expensive". Convince the powers that be, they need to "upgrade" to new more effective ammo and by the way you can't use the new "more effective & cheaper" ammo in your current firearms. Wallah new sales in-coming. Never under estimate a well thought out sales program.

 

[ContinentalOp]

I'm neutral on the .40S&W. It's definitely a good cartridge and a good choice for those who like it. I had a Glock 23 briefly. While it was snappy, I wouldn't call it uncontrollable.

For me, the availability of good 9mm JHP makes it a better choice. Probably the least expensive service caliber around. Easily controlled in all but the smallest of subcompacts. In actual shootings any difference between service calibers is insignificant. So the 9mm is my choice for a SD caliber. And I'm sure those are some factors used by LE agencies in switching to 9mm from .40S&W and .357Sig. And the LE switch influences the market.

less battering of pistols with the 9. Most 40 S&W pistols are based on 9mm pistols and the increased recoil shortens the lifespan of at least some of these pistols.

While I agree, for the most part, I do think that, on a practical level, reduction in service life is likely to be neglible, at least in good quality guns.

Just my opinion.

 

[LoboGunLeather]

I see the "decline" of the 40 S&W as a great buying opportunity. Kind of like what revolvers went through in the 90s. Remember that old box of wooden grips at the gun shows..$10 buys any pair? The eb and flow of demand..

Yup. About 16 months ago I purchased a Sig Factory Certified Pre-Owned (Red Box) P229, DA-SA-Decocker, .40S&W, condition as new in the box with manual and two extra magazines. Price was under $400. These are law enforcement trade-ins that Sig runs through the shop, replaces any worn parts, reconditions to like new, sends out with a one-year factory warranty.

At that time Sig's website showed the MSRP at $1087 for a new P229.

Several of the large dealers have good inventories of LE trade-ins by Sig, Glock, S&W and others at bargain basement prices, and I expect this situation to continue for a couple of years while the lemings in government offices (and the younger crowd who believe too much of what the "experts" are saying) follow the national trend. The reasons I especially like the Sig CPO guns are complete factory servicing to new standards and the manufacturer's warranty.

For those who argue that the .40S&W is dead and ammunition will become unavailable, all I can say is that there are tens of millions of .40's and most of them will still be in use for decades to come.

 

[LPD256]

The FBI tests ammo and guns and to some their results and recommendations are the “gold standard”. The FBI likes 10mm, you need to like 10mm. The FBI likes .40 S&W, you need to like .40 S&W. Then the admin staff, smaller women, infrequent shooters, and others have to “qualify” to carry a gun. Not surprisingly, some people can’t shoot a 10mm effectively. Or a .40 either. The rounds are hotter. The recoil is bigger. And failure rates went up. The “new” 9mm rounds are more effective than “old” 9mm rounds. According to the FBI. And fails to qualify numbers went down. There you have it. In my opinion. It is a compromise designed to allow qualifications. The .40 round is a good round, and you can buy a gun dirt cheap.

 

[CDR_Glock]

Honestly, I see the service calibers to be quite close in ballistics.

Some people cannot handle 40 S&W and 45 ACP.

I personally shoot all three service calibers to maintain my skills. Mainly, because of the ebb and flow of supply lines of available ammunition. I’m sure with the virus scare, supply lines of the 9 mm are dropping. I saw that back in 2008-2009. But! 40 S&W was plentiful.

If you adopt one caliber, and the supply of ammunition is low, you’ll have a disadvantage.

I have stockpiles of all three to make sure I’m set.

The beauty of 45 ACP and 40 S&W is that they’re naturally subsonic, which suppress very well.

9 mm suppresses only with 147 and 158 gr bullet weights.

I find none of the service calibers to be snappy. I have not adopted the 10 mm or 357 Sig because if I want Magnum power, I have revolvers to take care of that.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
Instagram
Muzzleblast_MD

 

[Engineer1911]

I harvested an abundance of 40 short & weak when it was popular. One bullet mold, one bucket of brass, and 2 semi-autos. I am ready. Some of my brass is even reloaded a third time.

When the training classes left the range, I generously offered to sweep the floor for the instructor. Smiled all the way to the reloading bench.

 

[The_Truth]

10mm > 10mm short

P229 .40 was my first pistol. Absolutely loved that pistol. Traded it plus cash for a 1076 and never looked back. Now I own 10mm semi autos exclusively except my G43 which doesn't count

I do still own a 4053, but I had BMCM convert it to 10mm for me