Why "warning shots" are a no-go

[Doug M.]

Again, from a mailing list to which I belong. I'll admit that it is not clear that there is a connection, but rounds fired have to come down somewhere. If you have the time and ammo to waste on a "warning", it is quite possible that you don't need to shoot. In the alternative, the victim MAY have hit the offender with a shot, and calling it a warning shot presents a potential legal problem for that reason. If one is not confident that it is legally and morally sound to put the rounds into high center mass, the face, etc. - DON'T SHOOT is the right answer.

Most likely the better answer for such a scenario is letting your land sharks out to address the problem, and a good fence is a good start, too.

Those Pesky Warning Shots: Riverhead NY] Police are investigating a reported burglary and the possible link between a “warning shot” fired by the River Road homeowner and a shooting victim who was taken to Stony Brook from a Calverton Hills condominium late last night. A River Road resident yesterday afternoon reported someone had broken into his shed and stole tools, according to Riverhead Town Police. A police report was filed documenting the incident. Then just before 10 p.m. last night, the resident called police again to report that a man was burglarizing the shed. Upon police arrival, the owner of the residence reported that he went outside with a shotgun and fired a warning shot at the burglar, according to the police report. The burglar fled and he followed the subject to the Calverton Hills area of Calverton, the homeowner told police. A short time later the Suffolk County Police Department was contacted and advised that there was a victim of a shooting in Calverton Hills, Riverhead Police said. He was transported to Stony Brook Hospital for treatment of non-life-threatening injuries. There is an ongoing investigation to determine if the two incidents are linked. (This report is over a week old but seems worth sharing as a reminder not to fire “warning shots” nor to claim that an otherwise justifiable shooting was intended only as a “warning shot.”)
River Road resident reports burglary, fires shot at burglar | RiverheadLOCAL

 

[Shark Bait]

Well put Doug. Don't fire unless you need to stop and immediate threat. And in that case the threat is the target. Some people seem to forget that they are responsible for where their projectiles end up.

 

[Camster]

I hadn't heard the story, though it is fifty miles from me.Additional facts would help.
The owner would probably be in jail already if he used other than a shotgun.Rifle use is forbidden on Long Island and pistol permits are very specific about their use.-Only to protect life in non retreatable circumstances or to protect someone being raped/attacked, NOT property. I would assume that he faces the same legality situation with the shotgun.

 

[Protected One]

While I'm in agreement that *generally* warning shots are a no go, I am hesitant to be dogmatic and say "always" a no go, because for every RULE there seems to always arise an exception.

I recall reading a story (perhaps here on the forum) of a man whose wife was out for a walk and came under attack by a neighbors dog. He heard her screaming, and as he ran out of the house - gun in hand, he realized they were too far away for a pistol shot, so as he ran toward them he fired a shot into the ground (near him, not them) hoping the noise would scare the dog off, or at least maybe draw his attention away from the wife.

Perhaps you wouldn't call that a "warning shot", but it is in essence the same, and I see no harm in the action that he took, given the situation.

 

[richardw]

While I'm in agreement that *generally* warning shots are a no go, I am hesitant to be dogmatic and say "always" a no go, because for every RULE there seems to always arise an exception.

I recall reading a story (perhaps here on the forum) of a man whose wife was out for a walk and came under attack by a neighbors dog. He heard her screaming, and as he ran out of the house - gun in hand, he realized they were too far away for a pistol shot, so as he ran toward them he fired a shot into the ground (near him, not them) hoping the noise would scare the dog off, or at least maybe draw his attention away from the wife.

Perhaps you wouldn't call that a "warning shot", but it is in essence the same, and I see no harm in the action that he took, given the situation.

I do not see the shot into to ground as a warning shot. It was an attempt to drive off an attacking animal while closing distance in approaching the attack. It was done carefully by shooting into the nearby ground. Seems pretty safe to me. If it was effective, great. If not, no harm done except to the ground.

I agree with the OP that warning shots are a no no. I say that even if they are fired into the ground next to the shooter. Reason is that never draw your gun unless there is near certainty you will have to use it. If that condition exists and you draw, do not take the gun off target. It could get you killed. The appearance of the gun is warning enough to the bad guy.

 

[forrestinmathews]

Warning shots are a liability. Not all self defense involves a bad guy. Sometimes it is an animal. Not all animals understand gunfire to be a bad thing. Do you really want to have one less round available to deal with a problem? If you're considering warning shots you have not committed to killing your opponent. Get a stick or a shovel they are more versatile. They don't make noises which cause people who want explanations to appear after the fact.

 

[Kanewpadle]

Warning shots are a liability. Not all self defense involves a bad guy. Sometimes it is an animal. Not all animals understand gunfire to be a bad thing. Do you really want to have one less round available to deal with a problem? If you're considering warning shots you have not committed to killing your opponent. Get a stick or a shovel they are more versatile. They don't make noises which cause people who want explanations to appear after the fact.

Ok, to counter your statement, let's say you don't have a stick or have time to stop and pick one up? But you are carrying a gun.

Not disagreeing with your statement. But sometimes we have to work with what we have immediately available to us.

 

[badge]

I wouldn't. My agency allowed them up until the mid 80's but no more. Your responsible for every round so if your justified to use it,.. use it. Use every other option before you do is all I say.

 

[KSDeputy]

We were taught to never fire warning shots, and never to fire at vehicles.

 

[Breakaway500]

Warning shots are something Hollywood invented. It's like telling someone you are going to punch them. I can understand a shot across the bow at sea..but in a personal conflict,no way am I giving anyone a chance to shoot first...

 

[TAROMAN]

You mean to imply that Vice President Biden was wrong?

"If there's ever a problem," Biden said he told his wife, Jill, "just walk out on the balcony here--walk out, put that double barrel shot gun and fire two blasts outside the house -- I promise you whoever is coming in ... You don't need an AR-15, it's harder to aim, it's harder to use...Buy a shotgun! Buy a shotgun!"

 

[robertrwalsh]

Warning shots are, by definition, the discharge of a firearm when no IMMEDIATE danger exists. These shots also have the bad habit of doing property damage or injuring or killing people. In addition, many times (I suspect) a person will be bothered by the fact that they shot someone and then say, after the fact, "I fired a warning shot. I didn't mean to hit him." That, of course, is exactly the WRONG thing to say, even if it is true. As noted above a few posts there are, on rare occasion, instances when a warning shot can be fired safely and when it MAY be appropriate to do so. Those instances are few and far between.

 

[Rustyt1953]

It is a trite, thread-bare, heavily trodden phrase, but one I adhere to:

"Every round you fire has a lawyer attached to it."

 

[Old cop]

A long time ago an off duty cop from my agency fired a warning shot at a burgler in his neighborhood, making an apprehension. We had an absolute no warning shots policy and he was fired. The community reacted angrily and put pressure on the city council so he was rehired. IMHO using a gun to warn or intimidate is always a fools errand but I suppose there are exceptions. That said his firing had a lasting impact on me and I doubt, almost 50 years later, I'd do anything like that. Like was posted earlier that bullet will land somewhere and that can be very dangerous to innocent people in a densly populated area like where I live.

 

[ISCS Yoda]

I agree that the shot in the ground to scare an attacking dog is far and away different from a foolish warning shot. It was only last year, I think, that some young people gathered in front of a guy's house, I don't recall why, and the genius homeowner came out through his garage with a shotgun and fired a warning shot. The young man he hit was not a direct physical threat even if he shouldn't have been gathering in front of this homeowner's house. Incredibly stupid.

If you feel compelled to warn someone that you might shoot them I guess you just should tell them. Then - PERHAPS - you can fire away if the threat persists. But if the threat was that bad the correct way to handle it is not through a verbal discussion of the matter.

This reminds me of Tuco's warning:

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYGRIGwR7Uo[/ame]

When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk.

(c) YouTube

This discussion also reminds me of a scene from the TV show of a year or two back called "Justified". The lawman star of the show is shadowed by two shooters who want to kill him. They are on the street when he says:

"You take one more step, I'll shoot you. That's all I'm gonna say."

Now THAT is a warning shot!

The button man takes another step and BLAM! I seem to recall him saying "You shot me" and the reply was "I said I would if you took another step".

Again, when you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk.

 

[cmort666]

Like was posted earlier that bullet will land somewhere and that can be very dangerous to innocent people in a densly populated area like where I live.

Recall the incident a number of years ago wherein a female cop tried to shoot a [non-poisonous] snake out of a tree(!).

She missed, killing a young boy a block or two away, whom she never saw.

Bullets that miss their targets... or which ricochet off of hard surfaces don't go into a parallel dimension. They keep going in this one until something, like a child's body, stop them.

I've been threatend by people, never yet by the ground. If somebody's an immediate and credible threat to my life and limb, I'll shoot THEM not the ground.

 

[swsig]

As I recall from my License to Carry class, warning shots are illegal in Texas. You have to be aiming at the threat when you pull the trigger.

 

[ISCS Yoda]

As I recall from my License to Carry class, warning shots are illegal in Texas. You have to be aiming at the threat when you pull the trigger.

Okay, this aggravates me but I am not attacking you personally.
Nobody told you that in your CHL class. Or, more to the point, nobody should have stated that as the law in Texas. There is no Texas statute with respect to warning shots. However, there are statutes that by implication could be taken to be ban on warning shots.

For instance - and this is from a Texas authorized public website so you can look the statute up anytime you are in the mood:

TEXAS PENAL CODE

TITLE 9. OFFENSES AGAINST PUBLIC ORDER AND DECENCY

CHAPTER 42. DISORDERLY CONDUCT AND RELATED OFFENSES

Sec. 42.01. DISORDERLY CONDUCT. (a) A person commits an offense if he intentionally or knowingly:

(4) abuses or threatens a person in a public place in an obviously offensive manner;

(5) makes unreasonable noise in a public place other than a sport shooting range, as defined by Section 250.001, Local Government Code, or in or near a private residence that he has no right to occupy;

(6) fights with another in a public place;

(7) discharges a firearm in a public place other than a public road or a sport shooting range, as defined by Section 250.001, Local Government Code;

(8) displays a firearm or other deadly weapon in a public place in a manner calculated to alarm;

(9) discharges a firearm on or across a public road;

Warning shots, per se, are not described in the statute. You have to be a fool to fire one, but that's what this discussion is about in the first instance. As a Texas lawyer and CHL (now LTC) instructor I take great umbrage at the Penal Code being wrongly cited. Nothing personal. Except against your instructor, my friend, who clearly told you something that is not stated in the law.

 

[rwsmith]

Being pissed off is the last reason.....

Being pissed off is the last reason to pull a gun. If it's pulled out it is going to be used.

A guy got in an altercation on a highway with a bunch of 'people' who kicked him around. There was no fighting going on when he got a gun from his wife and fired a shot into the ground.

That pretty much killed any chance of charges against the others because he was then 'the bad guy'.

 

[CAJUNLAWYER]

Old client of mine (he's dead now) called up in trouble. Some guy was pissing him off on the highway and he pulled up along side him, stuck his GP100 out the window and let lose a round in the air. He was genuinely surprised that he got arrested-in his words "If I wanted to shoot him, I woulda shot him. I just wanted to get his attention" in a heavy cajun brougue. Got him off with a disturbing the peace but he lost his gun---and he was pissed about that I didn't ask who got the gun

But lordy could this guy cook!!!!!!!!!!!!!!