Will a S&W M&P last for 50 years?

[-db-]

The science of materials has come a long way in a hurry. Polymers now exist that can rival steel in terms of their durability...

Good point but those polymers aren't the ones they're building guns with, otherwise none of us could afford them. You wouldn't be able to stipple them with a soldering iron, either. Face it, gun plastic is fairly low-quality considering the vast array of possibilities. It's basically thick milk jug material.

 

[ISCS Yoda]

I read a sci-fi book set 1200 years in the future where the main character sneaks a 1911 pistol into a meeting. In those days, all hand weapons had energy sources and electronics and that were easy to scan for -- but no one worried about just a lump of metal.

She pulls out her 1911 and shoots all the bad guys and rescues the hostages.

I LOVE THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I bet every one of us has seen, if not owned, firearms that were 50 or 100 years old, or older. I daresay some of those old dueling pistols are 200 and 300 years old. Yep, guns are built to last!

***GRJ***

 

[45tex]

There's quite a few Gen1 Glocks out there, showing little more than holster wear and smoothened grip textures. I imagine treated properly they'll make it nearly indefinitely.

There's a lot of older rifles floating around with bakelite and other early polymers. They tend to not look pretty but it's worth noting.

Anything that can last 50k or more rounds and still be serviceable is a pretty durable firearm.

I have not seen a Gen 1 Glock in forever. They were OK proof of concept guns. Their last-ability was terrible. If you put one away new. You have junk in your safe. Gashed magazines and a frame that scratched like, well, plastic. Watched a LE officer scratch the slide with a fmj bullet and pronounce the finish unharmed. A year later the marks were still there.
Glock is a great tool today, but its evolution not original engineering. What sold the gun to LE was spray and pray capacity and it was light.
Since at the time I carried the 39oz empty 4506 I was very sympathetic after 8 or 10 hours.
The 4506 will go to the son, but the new M&P 9 I bought is a tool I will dispose of when no longer needed.

 

[Shooting Padre]

I have a full size 9mm. The question is, will I last 50 more years? I fully expect that the gun will, and my grandchildren will have for even longer.

 

[TTSH]

Furthermore, anyone who understands how Business operates knows companies do not build products designed to last a lifetime anymore. Planned obsolescence is the rule for everything from cars and guns to software and fast food menu items. Glock, S&W or any other plastic gunmaker really doesn't care if one of their current models deteriorates after 20, 30 or however many years. I mean, it's nice if they do last (see early Glocks discussed above) but there are no real consequences if they don't. No one is buying those old models anymore, anyway, so the company gets away with it.

Exactly. Mister Glock didn't decide to build plastic guns because he thought they would last longer. He decided to build plastic guns because he could build them cheaper and sell them cheaper; hence, a huge military & police market advantage. And he was right and he became wildly rich and successful.

Any gun can last 50 or more years if you don't use it and take very good care of it. But the above point is correct. No one expects these plastic guns to remain in service and be relied upon for that long. Newer, better, prettier plastic guns will come along and the old ones will be recycled. Gun manufacturers have discovered planned obsolescence and can see that there is a lot more money to be made that way than the old way. Such is life in the 21st century.

 

[ISCS Yoda]

"Soulless landfill fodder".

Now there's a quote worth keeping.

There is quite a lot of difference between a classic design and an item that will last a long time. I do think today's combat Tupperware will last a long time and be worthy of FAMILY heirloom status simply because Granddad carried the piece, protected his home with the piece, or even hunted with it (think modern sporting rifles in that context). Whether history will treat such items that kindly, whether there will be a Combat Tupperware Collector's Association or Discussion Forum, that's a whole different subject. I would tend to doubt it.

***GRJ***

 

[italiansport]

Although not a pistol; this old gal is still doing yeoman duty at 111. It's a L C Smith Grade 3 that was built in 1903. The only thing I replaced on it was the butt pad that had gotten harder then a rock.
The barrels are mirror and the gun still locks up like the proverbial bank vault.
With proper care I see no reason why this shotgun won't still be shooting in another 100 years.
Jim

 

[EugeneNine]

There are varying grades of plastic and plastic technology has improved over the years. A milk jug for example is designed to biodegrade but sit one outside and it will still take a few years. Tupperware is a soft plastic so it does degrade after a while and part of their scam is to give you credit for the lid that has been discontinued but they your color coordinated kitchen doesn't match so you want to buy all new stuff.
Quality plastics can last. I have tools with plastic handles that my father bought in the 70's that are still fine.
Besides in 50 years from now we'll stick the frame in out 3d scanner and print out a new one in our 3d printer.

 

[Saudade]

It would be like handing down a plunger. "Here son. This has cleared many a toilet. It's yours now. Take care of it"

I bet your plunger has saved you more than an XD-9!!

 

[kbm6893]

I bet your plunger has saved you more than an XD-9!!

It sure has! And I'm faster with it too! Like a showdown at high noon, I always beat the water rising like a tidal wave out of that toilet!

 

[Protected One]

Exactly. Mister Glock didn't decide to build plastic guns because he thought they would last longer. He decided to build plastic guns because he could build them cheaper and sell them cheaper; hence, a huge military & police market advantage. And he was right and he became wildly rich and successful.

Any gun can last 50 or more years if you don't use it and take very good care of it. But the above point is correct. No one expects these plastic guns to remain in service and be relied upon for that long. Newer, better, prettier plastic guns will come along and the old ones will be recycled. Gun manufacturers have discovered planned obsolescence and can see that there is a lot more money to be made that way than the old way. Such is life in the 21st century.

Not true. And time is proving it. There are already some polymer guns over 30 years old, being shot and showing little wear.

 

[kthom]

This is an interesting question. For me, I own some M&P pistols because they work! They meet my personal needs for personal protection and ease of carry. At nearly 70 YOA, lasting 50 years is a moot point. Lasting for as long as I am apt to need them AND functioning well in the duration is a valid concern, and I have confidence that will be the case. As for being heirlooms, who can really say whether or not our heirs will even care about receiving them. I've seen quite a few nice guns sold by the heirs because they wanted the money to get something else. I have one son who would keep and treasure a handgun of mine that has lots of history with me just because he knows the story and has the memories himself. His kids ... who knows?

Bottom line is that I don't buy or possess anything that's expected to be an heirloom. I do it because I need it or just want it and I use it. Whatever my kids and grandkids do with them, if I still have them at my passing, is going to be totally up to them at the time. I believe my polymer guns will provide me the service and function I require of them as long as I personally need them to do so. So will my all steel revolvers and semi autos. I take care of them as one should do with all good tools. If my rubber plunger dries out and no longer seals when I need it, I'll get another one. Otherwise, I'll use it for it's useful lifespan until it fails. Who can say for sure? But a well kept and maintained firearm will last a very long time. The mileage (number of shots fired) makes a difference in when parts may need replacing, but almost all the firearms I've seen that are non functional or questionable in function were not maintained properly or were fired with ammo that should not have been fired. I have seen very, very few that were just flat worn out and which could not be returned to full function. Those were mostly competition guns rather than "normal" use guns. I have no concerns about my polymer guns, less in fact than a few alloy metal frames that I own.

 

[skip4309]

H&K made the first polymer handgun in 1970 - the VP70...Glock followed 12 years later...S&W in 1994 with Sigma (a Glock clone)...just saying...

 

[federali]

Gun Life

Most police departments seem to have a 20 year cycle on gun replacement. The big transition to autoloaders occurred in the 80s. Since then, police departments near me have had at least one additional changeover and sometimes two changeovers to other guns.

Unless there's something in the air or in gun solvents that can attack the polymers or weaken it over time, These guns will last indefinitely with average use and reasonable maintenance.

 

[Sheepdoggit]

To me, a better question is whether the current M&Ps are "timeless" designs (like 1911, BHP, etc.) that gun collectors 50yrs from now would prize and care to own.

I just don't see it. That applies to most combat tupperware these days.

I have a different opinion. Most collectors aren't looking for a timeless design because there's no such thing. Muskets were in service longer than any other type of firearms in existence. They were around for 150-200 years, but I wouldn't call them timeless (because they're obsolete). Collectors like things because they're old. They also like craftsmanship, but I think the historical value is a bigger draw.

 

[DanP7]

Glock is approaching 30 years old. Haven't heard of any degrading due to exposure to the interstellar ether, gamma rays, or oxygen.

The same types of polymers used in the M&P are used in devices and structures that we expose to the most hostile conditions that our own bodies, our own planet, and even space can offer.


Also, the M&P polymer frame is basically a simple moulding. New frames could be made very simply and effectively. In 50 years, we will have 3D printers that can pump them out in your home office.

 

[TTSH]

I have a different opinion. Most collectors aren't looking for a timeless design because there's no such thing. Muskets were in service longer than any other type of firearms in existence. They were around for 150-200 years, but I wouldn't call them timeless (because they're obsolete). Collectors like things because they're old. They also like craftsmanship, but I think the historical value is a bigger draw.

Your point is valid given that there are all kinds of collectors (and all kinds of gun collectors) with different interests, focus, purposes, styles and funds to invest. I consider myself mostly a "modern era" gun collector with an S&W focus and I do own a fair number of plastic guns, although I'd never call myself a plastic gun collector and would never even think about handing down a plastic gun as a family heirloom.

"Family heirloom" will mean different things in different families. In my family, it meant an S&W that my grandfather won for marksmanship and two other S&Ws that my father used and cherished all his adult life. I am pleased that all three are classic, timeless steel and wood designs. It just wouldn't be the same for me if they were made out of plastic like my grandkid's toys.

 

[gunny4053]

To me, a better question is whether the current M&Ps are "timeless" designs (like 1911, BHP, etc.) that gun collectors 50yrs from now would prize and care to own.

I just don't see it. That applies to most combat tupperware these days.

Good point! Would you rather have a 57 Chevy on an 07 Honda Civic? In my case, a 65 El Camino would be my choice.

Back to the original question, yes, I believe an M&P will last 50 years. You have a lot of variables to consider, though. Heat, light, pressure, amount of use, amount abuse, maintenance, fatigue on critical points in the frame, and on and on. Only time will tell.

 

[Lockback]

I don't know much about chemistry or polymers, but my guess is my Glocks and Shield will outlive me by a fair amount.

 

[M&Pmeister]

I have a different opinion. Most collectors aren't looking for a timeless design because there's no such thing. Muskets were in service longer than any other type of firearms in existence. They were around for 150-200 years, but I wouldn't call them timeless (because they're obsolete). Collectors like things because they're old. They also like craftsmanship, but I think the historical value is a bigger draw.

Muskets have historical significance, but they are not timeless designs.

An handgun design like 1911 OTOH is 103yr old and is THE most popular design today (at least in the USA). I doubt everybody who like 1911 care about historical significance. Handgunners today like the design because it works as well for a civilian today as it did for a soldier fighting in the trenches of WWI 100yrs ago.

That is timeless.

There are only a few handgun designs I would put in that category. CZ is a distant second to the mighty 1911. Time may prove Glock to be worthy of that designation, but what form would a Glock take 50yrs from now. They are already in their 4th generation in 30yrs. Would a 12th GEN Glock17 in 2064 even resemble the 1982 1st GEN?

The handgun market today is very different than 50yrs ago, when few people carry concealed and most civilian handguns stay in shoeboxes and bedroom drawers yr after yr, decade after decade. No incentive to change form or function. Today... unless you are making the venerable 1911, you'll lose market share to newer designs, if you don't "improve". That market demand is both a blessing and a curse... driven by the every-increasing popularity of CHL.

 

[Trons]

I think everybody here, that insists that a M&P, Glock, ect, is not going to be a collectible in 50 years is forgetting that most things that are collectible now were not known, when they came out as new, to be collectible, because if the people that bought them knew that, there would be none being sold. There is no telling what people 50 years from now will want to collect. To suggest anything else is ignorant. I can not tell you how many times I've talked to people who own a 57 Chevy that said "if I had only known."

 

[tropicheat]

Got this idea to ask this question based on seeing discussion about 'plastic' guns vs. all steel models.

Do you think a polymer M&P pistol (Shield, Compact, Full Sized, 5", etc,) would last long enough to hand down to your grandchildren?

I picked 50 years for the title, but insert whatever is a meaningful time period.

I fired a Luger P.08 once that was made in 1944. My M&P was made in 2013.

I understand early Glock 17s are coming up on 15-30-25 (?) years. They are plastic like the M&P. Would the M&P expect similar lifetimes?

Will it be working reliably in 2066?

Why or why not?

If not, what would break first or more often?

Is there some expectation of 'routine' preventative maintenance of certain parts at 20,000, 40,000, 60,000 rounds?

Curious for your thoughts on this topic.

If you train seriously probably not. BUT, they are affordable so buy more than one[emoji106]

 

[ESW]

Of course they will last 50 years. Does anyone remember Skyway BMX wheels? Black plastic (nylon) five spoke BMX wheels form the 1970's - 80's. I have a set on a 1984 24" Redline BMX Cruiser and they are absolutely flawless, in brand new condition. They haven't deteriorated in any way and look exactly like they came out of a new box in 1983.

 

[ESW]

Skyway Machine, Inc.

Mine are 31 years old and flawless, never heard of one ever failing. The company has been around 51 years. The oldest mags are 40 years old. They have taken a LOT of abuse by a million 120 lbs kids and 240 lbs men.

 

[ladder13]

I'm quite sure most people here will never know.