Win 357 Silvertips in K-frame

[BigJohn]

Will firing a steady diet of Winchester 145 grain 357s through a model 19 or 66 have any effect on the revolver? I know to stay away from 125 grain 357s except for Golden sabers but am just curious about the Silvertips.

 

[squidsix]

It'll be fine. Unless you are outrageously wealthy, you can't buy enough of that ammo to break your gun.

 

[Engine49guy]

I used the silver tips back in the "Old Days" without incident.
If your intention is to fire cases and cases of the stuff I would use 38 special or upgrade to an L or N frame .
Just my opinion.

 

[Mike6735]

Is this load still being made by Winchester? Where can I get it?

 

[smith17]

"If your intention is to fire cases and cases of the stuff I would use 38 special or upgrade to an L or N frame ."

If he has a lot of silvertip ammo, why suggest he switch ammo and/or guns?

 

[XTrooper]

Is this load still being made by Winchester? Where can I get it?

A. Yes.
B. Two words: Internet search.

 

[BigJohn]

Thanks for the replies. Actually, I do have alot of 357 silvertip ammo but I do not plan on shooting alot of it through the K frames. I shoot most of it through N frames.

But I want to shoot some it through the Model 19 so I can be somewhat proficient with it through a K frame.

You can still get it at gunshows and off of the internet. It normally is between 45-55 dollars a box. Sometimes you can find it a little cheaper but not by much

 

[Engine49guy]

"If your intention is to fire cases and cases of the stuff I would use 38 special or upgrade to an L or N frame ."

If he has a lot of silvertip ammo, why suggest he switch ammo and/or guns?

Because the K frame will not hold up as well as an L frame or N frame to daily use of 357 ammo.

The L frame 586/686 supplanted the K Magnums and were designed to stand up to larger amounts of 357 .

 

[captainjohnsofd]

If I remember correctly, the load which was most damaging to K Frames was 125 JHP's made by Remington and Federal. The problem was the length of the bullet and the powder charge which caused flame-cutting of the top strap and cracked forcing cones. The forcing cone problem was caused specifically by the cut on the bottom of the barrel to allow the cylinder to close. Apparently 110 JHP's and 158's did not have the same effect as the 125's. I worked for a gunsmith who took in many K Frames from LEO's with these two problems caused by 125 JHP's.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Like said above, 145gr Silvertips won't harm your K frame revolver.

Is this load still being made by Winchester? Where can I get it?

Midway USA has them in stock along with a few other online sellers.

 

[G.T. Smith]

this is all very true....but

Because the K frame will not hold up as well as an L frame or N frame to daily use of 357 ammo.

The L frame 586/686 supplanted the K Magnums and were designed to stand up to larger amounts of 357 .

If his intentions were to shoot cases and cases of .357 ammo, then switched to .38 specials, his intentions would then be to shoot cases and cases of .38 ammo and have no intentions of shooting cases and cases of .357 ammo. right?
Just attempting levity ya'll,
Have a great work week,
Peace, gordon

 

[smith17]

Because the K frame will not hold up as well as an L frame or N frame to daily use of 357 ammo.

The L frame 586/686 supplanted the K Magnums and were designed to stand up to larger amounts of 357 .

My apologies engine. I didn't see where he said he was shooting it daily. I just figured a 'steady diet' meant that was the only ammo he was shooting through it.
Ed

 

[Texas Star]

I sometimes write for gun magazines, and did a story on this issue of K-frame .357 ammo. I had access to ammo factory personnel that consumers usually do not and was told that no studies have been done of the 140-145 grain bullets. But the overall agreement was that they'd wear the gun more like 158's and not cause undue problems.

The engineers and PR people with whom I spoke did agree, to a man, that hot 125 grain bullets and some Plus P Plus .38 ammo was what was eroding and cracking K-frame barrels. Many were also suspicious of 110 grain bullets, which sometimes fail to penetrate well, too.

Keep in mind that the K-frame was never meant to be a full-time .357. Keep your .357 use to about 10-15% of what you fire, and the guns hold up well. Most people really don't need Magnum power that often. If you do want to shoot a lot of .357, get a larger gun.

 

[hannstv]

At slightly over a dollar a round, when they can be found, my K frames are going to last forever.

 

[smith17]

"Keep in mind that the K-frame was never meant to be a full-time .357"

Just out of curiosity, because I keep seeing this repeated on the forum, where is this documented? I have the original AR article about the Combat Magnum in March 1956, various S&W circulars on the older model 19s, and Jordan's version of when he told Mr. Jinks what he wanted the factory to design for LEOs and can't find anything indicating they designed the Combat Magnum to fire primarily .38 Specials because it wouldn't hold up. I'm not talking about the light, ultra-fact loads but the original 158 grain loads that Winchester, Western, Peters, and Remington were selling in the 50s.
Ed

 

[AZretired]

Back in the day when I first started in LE I carried a M19 loaded with Federal 125s. My dept. Practiced and qualified with .38 wadcutters. Officers might shoot 50-100 rounds of duty ammo per YEAR. In the early 80s we started qualifying with magnum ammo quarterly.which meant 500+ rounds per year. By the mid 80s we were phasing in the 686 because of the above problems.

Sent from my Ally

 

[M29since14]

"Keep in mind that the K-frame was never meant to be a full-time .357"

Just out of curiosity, because I keep seeing this repeated on the forum, where is this documented?

Back in the late '50s and '60s when most people understood and accepted simple concepts when someone with superior knowledge gave them proper instructions, a piece of paper wasn't needed to satisfy every cry baby that came along, and his lawyer, so I doubt there is anything official, from S&W, in the way of documentation. Remember, too, that the 125-grain ammunition that is the locus of this controversy was not, to my knowledge, even being offered. When I was a lad growing up around older shooters, the idea of using something as light as a 125-grain bullet in a .357 Magnum would have been considered ridiculous, a stunt.

But everyone knew the score on the Model 19. It was what it was, and it was the gold standard against which every police-type revolver was compared for about two decades. Times and policies may change, but the K-frame .357 is still just as good as it ever was (later versions probably better) when used as intended. The history and the facts are there. No pieces of paper needed.

Getting back to the OP's tropic, Squidsix has a good point. One would think Silvertips should be easier on the gun than 125s, but there is probably no proof of that. In my own case, I have used them almost since the day they came out, in what limited quantity I could justify, and I still do use them in preference to anything else. I'm sure my first Model 19 probably has 2000 or 3000 of them down the pipe, which is not a lot by today's standards, but the gun is still just fine.

The single most important thing to consider, IMHO, is keeping the gun clean and properly adjusted. When the 19 ruled the roost, most of us never fired 200-300 rounds in an afternoon, without cleaning, as some expect to do today. The gun might have been fired 25-50 rounds, cleaned, inspected, and set aside for the next time, or returned to duty, as the case may be. When it needed maintenance, it got it. A finely made revolver was not allowed to beat itself to death for no good reason. Only an oaf allowed his investment to deteriorate by not properly caring for his revolver, and in those days failures of the Model 19 were so rare they were sensational. I never saw a cracked forcing cone on a Model 19 until just a few years ago, and when I did (predictably) the gun was absolutely filthy.