Winchester Model 1897 Trench Gun Questions

[WCCPHD]

I have been following Bushmaster 1313's thread on the Model 97 and did not want to infringe on it by asking questions in that thread.

I found a Model 97 Trench gun at a LGS. The manager of the shop said it was his understanding that the gun was an original military trench gun. The receiver has (I think I remember correctly) a serial number in the 73000 range. The barrel has a serial number in the 95000 range. The barrel has the "flying bomb" stamp on the top. He said that he believes it is a 1927 frame with a Pre WWII barrel and that the stock was replaced in the 1950's. It supposedly has been arsenal refinished and possibly twice in its life. It has fair finish remaining, the barrel shroud and the bayonet lug.

The asking price is $1500. I know NOTHING about these guns and want to "pick the collective brains" of the members here.

I would like to know if what the LGS manager believes is plausible.

Would a gun that has mixed serial numbers and is refinished hold any collector value?

What would the approximate value of such a gun be?

Thanks,

Bill

 

[Gene L]

We had one in VN 1969 carried by a SFC. I don't know where it came from or how it got on the arms list for our battalion that late in the conflict, but it did. He loved that gun.

 

[80sgyrene]

I would be very wary of a gun with mismatched serial numbers. Sounds like a piece together. IIRC the frame should have an ordnance marking on it to be an original govt. gun.
I 'm thinking value should be much lower.

 

[diyj98]

There's a lot of put together trench guns out there. I sure wouldn't put that kind of money in an example with mismatched serial numbers. It just screams humped up fake.

 

[JH1951]

The mis-matched number would leave me cold on that.
There is a lot to know about the '97, and before springing for one it will pay you back well to do some reading. Some frames were marked, and some were not. The serial numbers will generally be the key to what it was made as (and they really should match). A quick check right up front is to look at the barrel to see what the choke marking is.... Trench and riot '97's were all CYL. Barel length and the bayonet stud are also things to look at carefully. There is a wealth of info on the Interweb.
It is a shame, but there seems to be more fakes than there are originals. Prices on 'real' ones seem to have gone sky high.
Remember, buy the gun, not the story. Without that story, that piece sounds like a pile of parts that all met up one day, and $1500 is way high.

 

[David.Hylton]

Not a real gun. It is a put together pile of mis-matched parts. Is it solid frame or take down?

According to Canfield a WWII gun would be a take down. As mentioned they have become so valuable that fakes and put-together guns dominate the market. The choke marking is a give away. How does the bayonet adapter fit. There should be grooves on the underside of the barrel. There should also be a pin on the magazine cap that fits into the bayonet adapter. The grooves and pin kept the adapter from twisting on the barrel when twisting the shotgun when using the bayonet.

 

[AJ]

Get Canfield's book on the ComBat Shotgun and read up on them. There are several forums that deal strictly in military weapons, find them and ask questions, very knowledgeable people there.

 

[Valmet]

+1 for put-together Trench. I don't even think they were mfg'ing 97s in that configuration in 1927.

 

[WCCPHD]

Thanks for all the responses.

This one will be a hard pass.

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

Thanks for all the responses.

This one will be a hard pass.

I would say it is definitely an assembly of mismatched parts. But many military guns are! It isn't the guns fault, but the 1904 take down/mismatch I have is worth $400-500 at most (I paid too much a $200 in 1998)

My F-I-L has a 1915 Take down, his older brother burst the barrel in 1938, He installed just the barrel tube from a late Model 12 in 1969. That is how real armorers deal with burst barrels, not swap out the entire front half!

Ivan