Windows XP

[wittmeba]

...Vista has some annoying problems that are fixed in Windows 7.

Like what?

 

[EugeneNine]

My Macbook Pro has been about as reliable as any Windows laptop I've owned.

I beat on my laptop-any laptop-about 12-14 hours a day. For a while, I was getting about 12-18 months out of Windows laptops.

In two years, I've had two chargers go bad(about the same as I was getting out of most Windows laptops) and my trackpad(touchpad) went out. I also had a hard drive replaced, although it wasn't completely bad.

My cost out of pocket for all of this has been exactly $0.00, thanks to Applecare. Every repair has also been done either while I waited, or finished the next day at an Apple store, which is a lot more than I can say for my experience with Toshiba, Gateway, and HP.

For every one mac sold there are 100 'pc's' sold in the corporate world and most of those go years without any problems at all. I've been reseller, support, user, etc. Macs always cost more and are about even with tier 2 pc's on reliability. I always stick with tier 1 corporate models.

So if you want anecdotal evidence similar to yours I can give you mine:

I currently have 5 Dell Latitudes running that were bought from 2002 to 2008 that have not needed any kind of warranty work, I've had to replace a couple parts myself from the kids dropping them but no power supplies, no touchpads, etc.

So in two yours you have had 4 repairs and I've had 5 laptops hat run 24x7 over a decade. I think I've had one or two hdd's fail but I upgrade every so often and the old go as spares as they trickle down through the kids laptops. I'll buy one for me or to use as my server and if I upgrade they trickle down to the kids.

Every Mac person gives the same "Mac's are so much better than PC's because they only break twice a year while your PC works fine for a decade'

 

[EugeneNine]

I believe Windows XP was the best O/S MS ever offered. Second would be Windows 2000 and Vista tied. Windows 7 was a miserable transition for me and I'd quite the PC world if I ever am forced to Windows 8.

Vista is the closest O/S to Windows XP ever issued. My wife had Windows 7 and I hate it...so does she but it came on her PC.

Vista is pretty smooth. It has been very stable for me and easy to use.

2000 was the best, it was fast, stable and compared to XP secure. I was the security Nazi at a small company when XP came out. I waited a while then upgraded and followed all the security best practices and was major infected with **** twice in a year. Despite locking down permissions, running as a very limited non admin user, etc IE was hooked so deep into the OS that the blackhat sites I used for research and downloading tools could get in easily.

XP embedded had major issues and Windows server 2003 had similar issues as XP. I got a 'won't fix' from MS on the typeperf issue (it was a unsupported reskit tool in 2000 but moved to be a supposedly supported core OS tool in 2k3). I got to have fun with that one though when the performance group would put tickets in my queue I'd copy and paste the MS ticket number back where they said they won't fix the issue .

The memory manager was the biggest problem n XP. in w2k you could tweak the swapping like you can in Linux, xp removed that reg key and ignored it if you added it. I virtualized our dev servers and would take snapshots of them then copy one to a developers machine and start it up under vmware workstation so they could test out major code changes without crashing the real dev server. W2k handled it fine because we'd set it to not swap until 90% of physical ram was exhausted XP went to the swap at 50% to keep ram free to load stuff faster. So you couldn't allocate 2G to a virtual guest on a machine with 3-4G of ram because it wold start swapping before it could allocate the whole amount. Since you needed some Ram for the OS, Outlook, office, visual studio, etc you ended up needing 3x the ram as you wanted to give your server to keep 50% free to prevent swapping. MS wouldn't fix that either. 2K I could run a 4G workstation and give 2G to a server with the os, and everything else running and have 3.75G ram in used with 0 swap.

 

[johngalt]

Like what?

It has some performance issues, especially with file copy speed. UAC is really annoying, constantly nagging 'is this ok?' every time you do something. The vista file explorer is also crippled compared to the Windows 7 version.

 

[cmort666]

As far as Apple equipment being expensive.... eh.

The most expensive was the 27" iMac at $1500, but a Dell all-in-one with a comparable 2560-1440 monitor is just as expensive.

1. I would NEVER buy an all-in-one of ANY make. If something dies, it either takes out the whole computer, or you're entirely without a computer until that one thing gets fixed. It's why I'd never own an all-in-one printer either.
2. I haven't bought a desktop system assembled by somebody else since the early '90s... and I didn't really "buy" that. I traded an SKS and a grip mount for an M1911 for it.

Other than random systems that people GIVE me when they don't want them anymore (which as often as not *I* built for them), I build ALL of my desktop systems. I get exactly what I want, at the price I'm willing to pay, and other than the motherboard, most anything essential in them can be replaced if necessary by a 3:00am trip to a Super Walmart... or from my stock of spare parts. I learned this lesson very well when the power supply for my Commodore 64 bit the dust in the middle of writing a law school paper. I got to the Venture store at Ford City Mall, just in time to buy a DAMAGED power supply for a different Commodore computer that worked just well enough for me to finish the paper until I could buy a real one from a scientific supply store.

Other than laptops, I don't see me buying a "name brand" computer again, and I'd build the laptops if it were possible.

 

[wittmeba]

It has some performance issues, especially with file copy speed. UAC is really annoying, constantly nagging 'is this ok?' every time you do something. The vista file explorer is also crippled compared to the Windows 7 version.

If you are referring to the "Are you sure?" dialog boxes - that can be turned off. I don't recall how - it's been too long.

Explorer crippled? No idea what you are referring too here but I'll take your word on it

You might want to read here:

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/...tanding-user-account-control-in-windows-vista

http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/windows-vista/disable-delete-confirmation-dialog-in-windows-vista/

 

[cmort666]

I currently have 5 Dell Latitudes running that were bought from 2002 to 2008 that have not needed any kind of warranty work, I've had to replace a couple parts myself from the kids dropping them but no power supplies, no touchpads, etc.

I don't know about their laptops, but Dell's desktop QC cratered about eight years ago.

I used to do maintenance and warranty work for a solution provider who used mostly Dell. We had machines dropping like flies, and not in harsh environments either. One of our clients was a VERY expensive clothing store in Pepper Pike, Ohio (Zena suits and $200 belts). They used a bunch of ultra-slim types on the sales floor for the sales people. It seemed like every other week I was replacing power supplies, boards, etc. Another customer was a filter factory in Twinsburg. They ordered a desktop through UPS to be a shipping and receiving machine. It came in on a Wednesday. I got there on Thursday to do initial setup and install their software. They were missing some software and hardware, so I was scheduled to come back the next Monday. The machine died that weekend before I could come back. I think we pulled the motherboard on that one.

I tell people that if they plan on buying Dell, to buy the highest level of warranty support they can afford.

 

[JohnSW]

BTW, rumor has it that Windows 9 is scheduled to be released around April 2015. (Of course, that date could change.)

I'm surprised that any computer that came with Windows XP preinstalled is still alive. My WinXP computer died (hardware failure.) years ago.

 

[Strato]

I have an old Gateway desktop running XP that has a 3 gig P4 with 2 megs of ram that still performs as well if not better than my HP laptop running 7 Ultimate that has a 2.1 gig dual core with 4 megs of ram.

 

[Stephanie B]

I'm surprised that any computer that came with Windows XP preinstalled is still alive. My WinXP computer died (hardware failure.) years ago.

I have an IBM 8148 that I dug out of a bank's dumpster in `09. Cost me $100 to put in a new hard drive and RAM. I loaded up XP, typed in the code that was on the computer and away it ran. Still works.

 

[Straightshooter2]

This notebook told me this morning that it had downloaded a Windows security update during the night. I'm running XP on it.

CW

 

[ancient-one]

I am running XP and got a Windows update also.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

1. I would NEVER buy an all-in-one of ANY make. If something dies, it either takes out the whole computer, or you're entirely without a computer until that one thing gets fixed. It's why I'd never own an all-in-one printer either.
2. I haven't bought a desktop system assembled by somebody else since the early '90s... and I didn't really "buy" that. I traded an SKS and a grip mount for an M1911 for it.

Other than random systems that people GIVE me when they don't want them anymore (which as often as not *I* built for them), I build ALL of my desktop systems. I get exactly what I want, at the price I'm willing to pay, and other than the motherboard, most anything essential in them can be replaced if necessary by a 3:00am trip to a Super Walmart... or from my stock of spare parts. I learned this lesson very well when the power supply for my Commodore 64 bit the dust in the middle of writing a law school paper. I got to the Venture store at Ford City Mall, just in time to buy a DAMAGED power supply for a different Commodore computer that worked just well enough for me to finish the paper until I could buy a real one from a scientific supply store.

Other than laptops, I don't see me buying a "name brand" computer again, and I'd build the laptops if it were possible.

I agree. For those with the know-how like you and who enjoy repairing, upgrading and fiddling with computers, a desktop all-in-one is not the way to go.

What I find compelling about Apple is that all my stuff from the iPhone to iMac works seamlessly together. The convenience of struggle-free compatibility among all the various devices is worth every penny to me.

 

[wittmeba]

1. I would NEVER buy an all-in-one of ANY make. If something dies, it either takes out the whole computer, or you're entirely without a computer until that one thing gets fixed. It's why I'd never own an all-in-one printer either.
2. I haven't bought a desktop system assembled by somebody else since the early '90s... and I didn't really "buy" that. I traded an SKS and a grip mount for an M1911 for it.

I used to think the All-in-one was not a good choice too. But since the demise of the 5¼, 3½ inch drives and a common CD/DVD there isn't the need for me to have a bunch of pieces and wires around my desktop.

I've had an All-in-one, wireless keyboard and wireless mouse for about 7 years and love it.

Unless an individual has a spare CPU & power supply, monitor, disk drives, keyboard and mouse if something goes - you are still without a PC until it is fixed.

 

[cmort666]

Unless an individual has a spare CPU & power supply, monitor, disk drives, keyboard and mouse if something goes - you are still without a PC until it is fixed.

Other than the motherboard, you can acquire most things that could go bad from Office Max, or from Walmart, and from the latter in the middle of the night. A lot of flat screen TVs can be used temporarily as monitors if necessary. When the video in that all-in-one goes south, either in the display itself or the onboard video adapter, you're DONE. If the video in my desktop goes out, I throw in a cheap video card.

In the past couple of weeks, I've seen USB ports literally FALL OUT OF all-in-ones. If EVERY port on my desktop died, I could throw in a USB card.

If the DVD drive in a desktop fails, you buy a replacement for $20 (usually less here) and swap them. If the DVD drive in most all-in-ones fails, you're DONE... at least until (and if) you can get a compatible replacement. Use an external? If the USB ports work...

All-in-ones have all of the disadvantages of proprietary hardware that laptops do, without the benefit of large volume production. There are enough laptops out there that you've got at least a chance of cannibalizing what you need from Ebay, rather than paying premium replacement part prices... and worse, trying to find somebody who knows how to fix them.

All-in-ones are generally for unsophisticated users who don't need quick turnaround time in the event of failure and don't mind spending a LOT more money to get them working again. It's NEVER going to make sense for me to pitch my entire desktop computer because the monitor died.

 

[TucsonMTB]

I am running XP and got a Windows update also.

Yep! According to the IT pundits at various trade magazines, Microsoft elected to issue one more XP security update to correct the recently discovered, major bug in virtually all versions of Internet Explorer that is apparently being exploited rather quickly by organized crime world wide.

This will probably be the very last gasp.

 

[wittmeba]

Since 1989 when I got my first PC I have had 2 hardware failures. I lost a hard drive (wouldn't spin) and lost much data (shame on me for not backing up) and pushed a floppy drive cable into the fan when I was tinkering and it gouged the cable. It did not cause the PC to fail but over time, it eventually fail as it would not keep the proper date/time on files. That's it in 25 years. And I use my PC a lot.

You are absolutely right - if you know what fails, you can replace the just the min pieces if that's what you have.

You are assuming that everyone understands "what" failed when anything goes wrong. I think that is a poor assessment. Not only are there many things to go wrong but most won't have much of an idea of what failed when the monitor doesn't turn on, drive does not work, can't read a DVD, keyboard or mouse doesnt work, power supply, USB port or mother board failure...and the list goes on. Some won't know how to perform a repair from a nasty virus.

I'm not trying to talk down to or about anyone but I know from experience these issues are not easily solved by the average home user.

I use an external 500GB drive for data storage so if I lose my HD again I have some recovery. If the modularity PC is your choice go for it. It's just not for me anymore.

 

[cmort666]

You are assuming that everyone understands "what" failed when anything goes wrong.

No, I'm assuming that if grandma takes her system to somebody who's not a crook, and the problem is a dead monitor, power supply or onboard video, she's going to end up spending a LOT less money on the diagnosis (nevermind the fix) for a conventional machine than for an all-in-one.

What do you think's a faster, cheaper diagnosis and fix?

No video on a desktop or an all-in-one?

What do you think a repair shop is going to charge more for?

Replacing a generic DVD-RW in a desktop with ten minutes labor, or disassembling an all-in-one and ORDERING a replacement DVD-RW drive... if you can get one that fits? Around here, OEM DVD drives RETAIL for about $17 on sale. What do you imagine the markup is for a slim-line laptop type drive versus a 5 1/4" Lite-on or LG?

When I fix people's computers, I try to SAVE them money.

 

[jmmitc06]

I'm a computer scientist / bioinformatics researcher by day and I have a number of different computer systems (makes, OSs and hardware) so I'm going to throw in my two cents.

If you are still running XP, now is a good time to upgrade to a different OS, assuming the computer is networked. Installing an aftermarket security program while not unadvisable will not fix the security issues with XP and honestly with windows systems in general. Do not upgrade to vista, there are a number of problems with the OS with virtually no advantages over windows 7. Ubuntu is also a good option as is OSX. Linux has the advantage of being free you just have to install it. Also all the operating systems: Windows, OSX and Linux have programs for virtualizing an operating system so make an XP virtual machine and run any programs that will not run in the OS you choose in it. They are easy to set up, look at Virtualbox and VMWare and there are tutorials on how to do this.

As for hardware. If you are going for a desktop building your own is an option. I have done it several times but the money savings can be minimal and troubleshooting isn't trivial if you aren't tech savvy. I would recommend it but for example determining if the mobo or power supply is bad is hard when you don't have spare ones sitting around. If you are just browsing the interwebs, running non-graphics intensive programs (anything but games basically) any cheap walmart special will do the job.

Now laptops... I have both a 13'' macbook pro and an asus G750, the macbook is running OSX mavericks ubuntu and the asus Windows 8 and Ubuntu. I love them both, but I have to choose the macbook over the PC any day in most aspects except gaming performance. I have had fewer issues with the mac, in general it can go for weeks without needing a reboot or getting sluggish. The security of OSX trumps win 8 / 7, the user control features are superior as in you aren't given administrator privileges all the time by default and there is native virtual disk image support. They are less user-servicable than the PCs but honestly taking apart and servicing laptops is something best left to professionals, i've done it and it's a PITA. The big reason not to get the mac would be the price.

In my opinion I think that there are two good options.

Either buy a cheaper Asus or Acer PC laptop with 7 or 8. Yes 8's GUI is a pain but if you can't get a 7 laptop get Start8 it gives a 7/XP gui back to windows 8. The entry level models are like $300 but the battery life will only be okay and the screens are around 11''. The entry level macbook air is a good choice, better battery life and a more stable OS (IMO) but will cost around $800. If you really need the optical drive buy a USB one. Feel free to PM if you need more info and don't forget to look at used systems, they are cheap and you just install the OS you want when you get it home.

 

[TucsonMTB]

Today was challenging but sort of fun. We have an older HP Pavilion tower in which we installed a RAID array more than a decade ago. The operating system is Windows 98.

The plan was to put any useful files from that machine on stable storage in preparation for taking it out of service. The tower had not even been turned on for several years. So, the battery that retains the hardware configuration was dead.

Some of you probably know that Windows 98 has minimal USB support, so attaching an external drive just wouldn't work for me. I tried more than one. I was also stymied by the fact that the CD drive refuses to open. It clicks and whirs, but delivers no joy. So, I couldn't load any of the necessary hardware drivers to complete a USB connection. Oh, and this machine is NOT equipped with a CDRom writer either.

Yeah, at one point, I was a little "concerned". But . . . No worries! All is well and we will dispose of the machine in the next few days.

Fortunately, we still have an aging Windows NT server based HP tower machine on the home network that could see at least one of the file shares on this aging beast via the network. The NT box still has healthy drives, including an optical writer, as well as a RAID, and healthy USB ports. So, the files will be safe there until they can be moved to more universal, removable storage as part of the process of decommissioning that machine as well.

We have definitely gotten spoiled by a steady diet of IBM ThinkPads with easy to clone hard drives and DVD writers standard. Still, I was surprised that these old machines are surprisingly quick performing network file transfers, despite their age.

So . . . the next time you feel like grousing about an out of date operating system . . .