haveme1
Member
I stand corrected on terminology.
Poa straight on covered up.
Thank you for making me learn !
Poa straight on covered up.
Thank you for making me learn !
With 9mm M&P Shield, which is overall the best/most accurate sight picture POA/POI?
- Thread starter tedburns3
- Start date
Definitely does not feel like #1. When using standard pressure ammo only from various manufacturers, both 115 grn and 124 grn, mine seems to be #3. I practice inside 7 yrds mostly but I also point shoot plenty during practice sessions.
While I couldn't find a section in the Shield manual about sight picture, a few of my other manuals (my XDMc manual, for one), mentions this and shows a Pic using #3.
So for SOME pistols anyway, getting good results using #3 is NOT compensating for shooter error.
One thing I notice a bunch at the range, including from my Wife, is that for many (that don't shoot a lot), their 1st shot (using pic #3) might be spot-on, dead center. Possibly because with that 1st shot, they're not anticipating the recoil (yet). Using the same sight picture as their 1st shot, As they shoot more and they start to Anticipate/Flinch, THEN they start shooting Lower than their 1st shot and maybe even Low/Left. That's definitely shooter error.
I actually heard one shooter say "My 1st mag was Perfect and I got progressively worse with each mag... I guess I should have quit after that 1st mag." The group went wild.
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Just my $.02
I do think the general concensus is that Sight Image #3 is the only one properly referred to as a 'combat sight picture', and I'd guess the reason for that is one is pointing at the area where impact should occur, not slightly above it or way above it. It's the more intuitive picture where one does not have to 'think' about it as much as with the others, and might serve one better under the unusual stress encountered in a combat situation.
I'm going to Google the term 'combat sight picture' and see if I can get more background on it.
Poll remains for the most part tied between #2 and #3.
Here's something I just picked up from the Sig-Sauer website.
SIG SAUER
"Q. My SIG SAUER pistol is not accurate. Why? What should I do?
A. All SIG SAUER production duty/combat pistols are set up to use a "combat" sight picture. This is where the front sight completely covers the bulls eye of the target. Using a six o'clock ("pumpkin on a post") or center mass ("half'n'half") sight picture will result in low impact. SIG SAUER, Inc sights in all non-sporting and non-target pistols for 2.5 inch groupings @ 15 yards. If you are still having trouble please contact Customer Service for further help and instruction. Please have your serial number ready. There are also very helpful free Internet sites that cover pistol group analysis."
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That is a helpful explanation.
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Sight Image #1- 6 o'clock hold ("pumpkin on a post");
Sight Image #2- half'n'half center mass/hunting hold;
Sight Image #3- combat sight picture or hold (dot covers target, "drive the dot").
I do think the general concensus is that Sight Image #3 is the only one properly referred to as a 'combat sight picture', and I'd guess the reason for that is one is pointing at the area where impact should occur, not slightly above it or way above it. It's the more intuitive picture where one does not have to 'think' about it as much as with the others, and might serve one better under the unusual stress encountered in a combat situation.
I'm going to Google the term 'combat sight picture' and see if I can get more background on it.
Poll remains for the most part tied between #2 and #3.
Here's something I just picked up from the Sig-Sauer website.
SIG SAUER
"Q. My SIG SAUER pistol is not accurate. Why? What should I do?
A. All SIG SAUER production duty/combat pistols are set up to use a "combat" sight picture. This is where the front sight completely covers the bulls eye of the target. Using a six o'clock ("pumpkin on a post") or center mass ("half'n'half") sight picture will result in low impact. SIG SAUER, Inc sights in all non-sporting and non-target pistols for 2.5 inch groupings @ 15 yards. If you are still having trouble please contact Customer Service for further help and instruction. Please have your serial number ready. There are also very helpful free Internet sites that cover pistol group analysis."
__________________________
That is a helpful explanation.
Corrected text:
Sight Image #1- 6 o'clock hold ("pumpkin on a post");
Sight Image #2- half'n'half center mass/hunting hold;
Sight Image #3- combat sight picture or hold (dot covers target, "drive the dot").
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ginzo
Member
I use #2. This is for both my .40 FS and .40c. POI=POA to 15 yards. Mostly shoot to 7 yards. I understand you are 9mm. Same perspective from a .40
This is an 8" target out to 15 yards my 1st range trip with .40c. It's not a bulls eye every time, but I'm thinking the threat would be over........(hopefully)
Good luck and welcome to the forum. Great place!!
This is an 8" target out to 15 yards my 1st range trip with .40c. It's not a bulls eye every time, but I'm thinking the threat would be over........(hopefully)
Good luck and welcome to the forum. Great place!!
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I use #2. This is for both my .40 FS and .40c. POI=POA to 15 yards. Mostly shoot to 7 yards. I understand you are 9mm. Same perspective from a .40
This is an 8" target out to 15 yards my 1st range trip with .40c. It's not a bulls eye every time, but I'm thinking the threat would be over........(hopefully)
Good luck and welcome to the forum. Great place!!
Thank for your post.
Good shooting!
I haven't enough experience shooting my 9mm Shield to vote on the poll yet, but it will be either #2 or #3. No big surprise there!
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ginzo
Member
Thanks, Everyone shoots a little different.
I'm having trouble finding my "place" with my 638 because you only look down a valley at a ramp. But shoot well enough to feel comfort when it's in my pocket. I'll keep working on it!
Practice makes perfect, and it's fun too!!
I'm having trouble finding my "place" with my 638 because you only look down a valley at a ramp. But shoot well enough to feel comfort when it's in my pocket. I'll keep working on it!
Practice makes perfect, and it's fun too!!
Thank for your post.
Good shooting!
I haven't enough experience shooting my 9mm Shield to vote on the poll yet, but it will be either #2 or #3. No big surprise there!
Well, I started with sight picture 2, but was coming in low so switched to sight picture 3. Even then, I was still low. Some snap caps mixed in with live ammo showed that I was anticipating recoil and breaking at the wrist. I switched back to 2 and have been much better. If I start hitting low, I concentrate on trigger control and it moves back up to where I want it.
Having said that. My son, who does not anticipate recoil, says he uses three with my Shield and shoots tighter groups then I do. <shrug> Take that for what it is.
Having said that. My son, who does not anticipate recoil, says he uses three with my Shield and shoots tighter groups then I do. <shrug> Take that for what it is.
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The best sight picture is what works for YOU.
ginzo
Member
Boy, it's a close race!!! Sight picture #1 is fading fast, but 2 and 3 are neck and neck!
What is purpose of 3-dot sights on the Shield? To use the dots solely for alignment as in #2, or for both alignment and POA as in #3?
I would guess the latter because the former is additional 'work' and lessens advantage to them in the first place, but all this is speculation on my part.
I would guess the latter because the former is additional 'work' and lessens advantage to them in the first place, but all this is speculation on my part.
Wouldn't common sense dictate since the middle of the white dot on front sight as closer to bore, be more likely POA=POI? And that doing #2 using proper trigger control might result in shots hitting lower? Difference might be nominal in close engagement but as one extends target out further.....???
A big Duh! on my part!
3-dot white sights- aren't they commonly referred to as '3-dot combat sights'?
If these indeed are 3-dot 'combat sights', then...there it is....!
Combat sight picture #3 would apply using deductive reasoning. It may not be correct, but... makes sense to me without taking other factors into consideration. These sights are referred to as 'combat sights' for a reason. Duh
If my third range trip confirms #3 over #2, I will hereafter pledge to say that '3-dot combat sights' are just that- "combat sights", where the dot on front sight shall cover the target for accurate and proper shot placement.
3-dot white sights- aren't they commonly referred to as '3-dot combat sights'?
If these indeed are 3-dot 'combat sights', then...there it is....!
Combat sight picture #3 would apply using deductive reasoning. It may not be correct, but... makes sense to me without taking other factors into consideration. These sights are referred to as 'combat sights' for a reason. Duh
If my third range trip confirms #3 over #2, I will hereafter pledge to say that '3-dot combat sights' are just that- "combat sights", where the dot on front sight shall cover the target for accurate and proper shot placement.
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Thanks, Everyone shoots a little different.
I'm having trouble finding my "place" with my 638 because you only look down a valley at a ramp. But shoot well enough to feel comfort when it's in my pocket. I'll keep working on it!
Practice makes perfect, and it's fun too!!
The one type of handgun I'd say gets the greatest benefit from laser sights would be the J-frame. It's incredible how one's accuracy and confidence in the firearm increases with them, especially in low-light scenarios, and from short distances out to beyond 25 yards.
I have a CT LG-405 on my 442- 'wouldn't leave home without it'!
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The best sight picture is what works for YOU.
- and your gun and chosen ammunition. As long as you are consistent with it, how you align the sights doesn't matter.
I haven't fired my 9mm Shield for a while and to be honest have forgotten. The last Shield I fired as a .40 caliber and it did nicely with #2 hold and Winchester Ranger 180gr FMJ.
The best sight picture is what works for YOU.
Yeah, and I want to know what it is via this poll. It's pretty interesting that the votes are evenly divided #2 & #3; I don't know what to make of it.
Next range trip I will set up separate targets @15 yds. and shoot each of them solely with #2 or #3, and then I'll vote on the poll. Intend to really take my time between each shot, and focus on sight picture and trigger pull.
My goal is to be able to hit inside a 1" square or round circle EVERY TIME at all distances up to 15 yds or so. I'd take pride in being able to do that, not so much for self defense reasons, but for reasons of precision with a handgun that I happen to enjoy.
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ca survivor
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If I use sight picture #2 with my 9mm Shield, the bullets impact right at the cross hairs on your target. That's at 7 yards.
great shooting, aim small miss small
