I looked at the Colt Mustang but went with the P938 due to it being a 9mm. Really liked both and you can feel the quality when you handle them.
Would You Ever Swap Out your "J" for One of the Small Autos?
- Thread starter Nalapombu
- Start date
I looked at the Colt Mustang but went with the P938 due to it being a 9mm. Really liked both and you can feel the quality when you handle them.
LOTS of great info and advice. Just too darned many nice pistols out there to pick from.
I had always thought of pocket carrying a J until I went to the NRA show a couple years ago here in Houston. I came upon a booth from STICKY Holsters. They are made of that material that is rough on the outside and is supposed to stay in place IWB without a belt clip or other attachment. I thought it was bunk, but then I picked one up and handled it for a bit and after talking to the guys in the booth, I am going to get one to try. I have watched plenty of Youtube videos of these holsters and the Remora, which is the same kind of stuff.
If these work as I think and believe they will, it would be simple to just take your chosen carry pistol and put it in that pouch of a holster and put it in your belt and go and not worry about it going anywhere. It would be especially handy for trips to the store, movies, WalMart, you name it.
I still want a J frame where I would use 38 +P. I also really like those SIG P938 9mm pistols. I've handled them a couple times and would really like one. They're expensive though, really expensive in some versions.
Those "budget" Kahr pistols are also very nice options too. I've read several stories about some guys getting these budget Kahrs like the CW9 and cutting back the grip frame to take the magazine of the PM9. It's one less round but a longer sight radius and better recoil management. It would be an attractive option on the 45acp versions, I think.
Some shops do the conversion like ROBAR and some do it themselves. I don't think I have the nards to attempt such a mod. I checked with KAHR and if you try something like that and screw it up, you have to live with it. They will NOT sell you a frame to replace the one that you hacked up.
I think I could shoot a semi better than a J right now and for sure, when I do get my J frame, it would take a LOT of practice to make sure I was proficient with it.
One more thing....I have wanted a Walther (or Manurhin) PP for SO MANY YEARS now and never been able to find one for a reasonable price. I don't know why, but I really like 'em. I've got a stainless PPK/s and it would go great with one. I'll find one someday.
Thanks all.
nalajr
I had always thought of pocket carrying a J until I went to the NRA show a couple years ago here in Houston. I came upon a booth from STICKY Holsters. They are made of that material that is rough on the outside and is supposed to stay in place IWB without a belt clip or other attachment. I thought it was bunk, but then I picked one up and handled it for a bit and after talking to the guys in the booth, I am going to get one to try. I have watched plenty of Youtube videos of these holsters and the Remora, which is the same kind of stuff.
If these work as I think and believe they will, it would be simple to just take your chosen carry pistol and put it in that pouch of a holster and put it in your belt and go and not worry about it going anywhere. It would be especially handy for trips to the store, movies, WalMart, you name it.
I still want a J frame where I would use 38 +P. I also really like those SIG P938 9mm pistols. I've handled them a couple times and would really like one. They're expensive though, really expensive in some versions.
Those "budget" Kahr pistols are also very nice options too. I've read several stories about some guys getting these budget Kahrs like the CW9 and cutting back the grip frame to take the magazine of the PM9. It's one less round but a longer sight radius and better recoil management. It would be an attractive option on the 45acp versions, I think.
Some shops do the conversion like ROBAR and some do it themselves. I don't think I have the nards to attempt such a mod. I checked with KAHR and if you try something like that and screw it up, you have to live with it. They will NOT sell you a frame to replace the one that you hacked up.
I think I could shoot a semi better than a J right now and for sure, when I do get my J frame, it would take a LOT of practice to make sure I was proficient with it.
One more thing....I have wanted a Walther (or Manurhin) PP for SO MANY YEARS now and never been able to find one for a reasonable price. I don't know why, but I really like 'em. I've got a stainless PPK/s and it would go great with one. I'll find one someday.
Thanks all.
nalajr
I love my Sig P938, but wouldn't pay full retail for it. I bought two from Palmetto State for $515 each. I saw a couple looking over the same model in Cabelas with a price tag of $799 not including tax. Unethically I pulled the husband aside and told him he could get it delivered to an FFL dealer for close to $550. Had it been a mom and pop shop I wouldn't have done that.
Arik
Member
Who worries about hollow point feeding or accidentally pushing the mag release? And as far as I can recall all questions about " can my gun handle this" have been directed at J frames and 38spl +P.
None of the autos talked about hold 15 rounds. Most don't even hold 10. But contrary to popular belief you don't need 5 rounds. 2 should be plenty. Get a Derringer. Less to break!
JohnHancock
Member
No! I swapped a micro (that I should have NEVER bought) for my trusty 442 and I'll never look back!
A word of caution on using the Remora (sticky type) holsters that don't have a belt loop/clip.
They work very well and are real comfortable, so comfortable in fact that you forget you have one in your waist band. At some point, when "dropping your draws", you'll get a reminder in the form of a "splash" or "clanking/clattering" noise which is somewhat unnerving.
Paul
They work very well and are real comfortable, so comfortable in fact that you forget you have one in your waist band. At some point, when "dropping your draws", you'll get a reminder in the form of a "splash" or "clanking/clattering" noise which is somewhat unnerving.
Paul
Jim PHL
Member
Years ago when KelTec first introduced their .32 I bought one. When they brought out the .380 I traded up. At some point I decided I didn't want to carry any caliber smaller than a .38 or 9mm so I got rid of it. After a few years I gave strong consideration to the amount of times I left the house with no gun at all because even the J-frame was too big and heavy, so a couple years ago I bought an LCP. I still pocket carry a j-frame more than any other carry. When I carry something IWB or OWB it's a Shield, 3913 or CCO-style 1911. But there are times when I pocket the LCP because mode of dress or some other circumstance dictates.
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The long, hard, trigger pull of a revolver is a nice safety feature.
Unlike a pistol, with a revolver, you don't have to "test" new-to-you brands/types of ammo to see if they will or won't cause a "jam".
Apparently, some pistols require a "break in period" before the are reliable. Not so with a revolver.
Unlike a pistol, with a revolver, you don't have to "test" new-to-you brands/types of ammo to see if they will or won't cause a "jam".
Apparently, some pistols require a "break in period" before the are reliable. Not so with a revolver.
J-frame most of the time, thank you...
I have several J-frames to choose from, although a couple border on collector pieces. Typically, I grab my 637-2 or my 360. I can shoot .38 very well in either of them. I have a small stash of Nyclad that is loaded in them and on a speed strip when they are either EDC or BUG.
I have a SIG 938. I like my SIG's a lot, and I felt this would be a natural member to add to that herd. I'm not sure that will work out to be the case. I have yet to be consistent enough in my shooting of this gun to carry it. It is the only truly small semi-auto that I have. The small side of my semi-auto group starts with 1911 Officer's models and S&W 3913/14, 457 etc. I'm at the point where I'm much more comfortable with the idea of carrying a 457, than the 938, and will probably put that SIG up for adoption. The 457 isn't really what I'd call a pocket pistol, but I am willing to trade away some concealability for accuracy and ease of use.
As I've searched for that perfect small semi-auto, I realize that I will likely always have a need for a J-frame revolver. Mine have been utterly reliable, and accurate...
I have several J-frames to choose from, although a couple border on collector pieces. Typically, I grab my 637-2 or my 360. I can shoot .38 very well in either of them. I have a small stash of Nyclad that is loaded in them and on a speed strip when they are either EDC or BUG.
I have a SIG 938. I like my SIG's a lot, and I felt this would be a natural member to add to that herd. I'm not sure that will work out to be the case. I have yet to be consistent enough in my shooting of this gun to carry it. It is the only truly small semi-auto that I have. The small side of my semi-auto group starts with 1911 Officer's models and S&W 3913/14, 457 etc. I'm at the point where I'm much more comfortable with the idea of carrying a 457, than the 938, and will probably put that SIG up for adoption. The 457 isn't really what I'd call a pocket pistol, but I am willing to trade away some concealability for accuracy and ease of use.
As I've searched for that perfect small semi-auto, I realize that I will likely always have a need for a J-frame revolver. Mine have been utterly reliable, and accurate...
Attachments
I carry a J frame almost exclusively, and if I'm not carrying, there's a 95% chance I have a Smith and Wesson J frame within arms reach.
The only thing I'd add to what's already been said by the J Frame crowd is this: I'm never bored with a J Frame. A new set of grips can change the look, the feel, the handling, and even the carry method, instantly. Try, buy, and practice with a few different sets of stocks over time, and you're only a screwdriver and 15 seconds worth of work away from a "new" (or at least different) gun anytime you want.
The only thing I'd add to what's already been said by the J Frame crowd is this: I'm never bored with a J Frame. A new set of grips can change the look, the feel, the handling, and even the carry method, instantly. Try, buy, and practice with a few different sets of stocks over time, and you're only a screwdriver and 15 seconds worth of work away from a "new" (or at least different) gun anytime you want.
manyguns
Member
Word from a post J frame owner. I had a 442 for years. It works fine. HOWEVER, when I purchased a Kahr PM9 and started to compare my ability to deliver shots on target at speed I went with the Kahr. There are advantages to the revolver, such as not going out of battery in a contact shooting and perceive simplicity.
I shot the 442 very well, but the small Kahr carried better and the ability for accuracy at speed and distance convinced me.
I shot the 442 very well, but the small Kahr carried better and the ability for accuracy at speed and distance convinced me.
Flat guns are usually easier to carry, and nowadays are often about as reliable as a revolver. However, J frames are not exactly a burden, either, particularly in a good holster. With a good belt and a Don Hume JIT or better, they are effortless. With some pants pockets and the right holster, they can be very comfortable and particularly available. Since Richard Rosenthal (RichCapeCod) of Rodman's Neck got S&W to put 1/8th inch front sights on the J frames, they have been just as good as the autos, which weren't so great in the old days, either.
The big advantage of the J frame over most or all autos is the handling safety. I seldom load or unload guns in the house, but when I do, I would certainly rather do it with a revolver than with an auto. Same goes for holstering. Striker-fired autos and enclosed-hammer revolvers (new Centennials) are particularly dangerous. Most of us will spend a lifetime and never need a gun to repel boarders, but there is a tremendous amount of "adminstrative" gunhandling in a lifetime, and no matter how low the probability of an error, it needs to be lowered more. One of the more significant ways to do this is to handle a revolver rather than an auto.
P.S. For my hand, a SB Airweight or steel J with a Tyler, or a RB steel J with a Tyler, is MUCH more shootable than any small auto. Get as large as a Kahr K9, and the advantage disappears, but that Kahr is heavier and still striker-fired. For everyday carry, I prefer the simpler safety of the revolver.
The big advantage of the J frame over most or all autos is the handling safety. I seldom load or unload guns in the house, but when I do, I would certainly rather do it with a revolver than with an auto. Same goes for holstering. Striker-fired autos and enclosed-hammer revolvers (new Centennials) are particularly dangerous. Most of us will spend a lifetime and never need a gun to repel boarders, but there is a tremendous amount of "adminstrative" gunhandling in a lifetime, and no matter how low the probability of an error, it needs to be lowered more. One of the more significant ways to do this is to handle a revolver rather than an auto.
P.S. For my hand, a SB Airweight or steel J with a Tyler, or a RB steel J with a Tyler, is MUCH more shootable than any small auto. Get as large as a Kahr K9, and the advantage disappears, but that Kahr is heavier and still striker-fired. For everyday carry, I prefer the simpler safety of the revolver.
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AZretired
Member
Short answer, No Way!
I did the opposite. Went from a Shield 9mm to a 442! I tried many of the other small 9mm (938, Shield, PPS, XDslim, Kahr, etc). With my hand size/shape, I get slide bit from pretty much every Glock I have shot unless it has a beavertail add on of some sort. I tried out the above and picked the Shield. Had some issues that S&W refused to correct (shot way high, they replaced barrel/slide, then shot high still but not as bad, but wouldn't group for me at all or anyone else that shot it; 6" was the norm group size with the shots going randomly. Back to S&W, they said it shot just fine). Thin polymer guns are nice for CCW, but I had trouble finding one that worked well for me and my hands. The Sig 938 was going to be the next one I bought once I sold my Shield, but when I played with one and mimicked a draw from holster, I found my hand has a tendency to ride over the stubby beavertail and I would get slide bite. Plus the safety was extremely difficult for me to manipulate cleanly.
So I went shopping and went with a 442 Pro/Moon Clip (no lock) and will probably pick up another, maybe a steel J frame for longer range visits. Not a fan of pocket carry, so I ordered an IWB holster for it. I also got a set of Hogue monogrips in wood (3 finger version) for it and that really helped with the recoil. May get some Crimson Trace grips for it in the future. Shoots beatifully, 4 of 5 shots at 50' my first day with it put 4 shots in under 2"; I had 2 directly in the 1" bullseye in the same hole and another set of 2 shots just to the left of the center 1" bullseye, again both shots in the same elongated hole and I pulled one an inch or two down low. Not bad for the first time shooting the gun at that distance!
So I went shopping and went with a 442 Pro/Moon Clip (no lock) and will probably pick up another, maybe a steel J frame for longer range visits. Not a fan of pocket carry, so I ordered an IWB holster for it. I also got a set of Hogue monogrips in wood (3 finger version) for it and that really helped with the recoil. May get some Crimson Trace grips for it in the future. Shoots beatifully, 4 of 5 shots at 50' my first day with it put 4 shots in under 2"; I had 2 directly in the 1" bullseye in the same hole and another set of 2 shots just to the left of the center 1" bullseye, again both shots in the same elongated hole and I pulled one an inch or two down low. Not bad for the first time shooting the gun at that distance!
After exhaustive look for the "perfect" concealment gun the 342PD was found to fit all of my criteria including weight, ability to shoot while still encumbered by clothing, stopping power, reliability and hitability. Only as a last resort though I feel naked without a Colt 1911 on my body.
kthom
Member
TazTJ,
Here's an opinion, strongly held by me. The CT grips on your J Frame will allow you to comfortably and easily cover all bases and situations. I use the Model 305's which is the rubber overmold style with a bit longer gripping area than the smaller boot style model. These work very well for my hand size and allow a good grip for DAO shooting. They also conceal well for me without grabbing on to clothing very much. In my experience, grips that are so slick as to not catch some on clothing are so slick that they do not allow me to get the kind of grip I like when shooting a DAO revolver. I also like the Pachmayer Compact grips for the J Frames, but having that laser sight really makes a difference for me. I don't notice the laser in daylight hours, but in low light or night light or in my bedroom at night, that red dot is a very comforting sight which allows me to know exactly where I am pointing my J Frame. They certainly do not replace my sights, but they add a great deal to my efforts to sight my revolver at all times.
One experience to tell to demonstrate ... I live on five acres outside of a small community town. Town dogs unrestrained often visit my property at night. One I recently encountered, a black pit bull mix, came around the corner from behind one of my storage buildings about 10PM one night and continued to advance toward me, growling very aggressively. There was enough moonlight to see the dog, but not enough to see my sights, and as I drew my J Frame (constant carry), I shouted at the dog to cease and desist. He ignored my request and continued to advance. That laser dot allowed me to effectively interrupt his actions with one round fired. He will not threaten me or mine again on my property or any other property. Without the laser, who knows for sure? I have no desire whatsoever to wound such an animal. The laser dot allowed me know my point of aim exactly. I have no doubt that the same thing would be true in any low light situation and with any predator seeking to do harm to me or mine. That situation resulted in my feeling that the CT Laser grips paid for themselves in full that night. I highly recommend them to all!!!
Here's an opinion, strongly held by me. The CT grips on your J Frame will allow you to comfortably and easily cover all bases and situations. I use the Model 305's which is the rubber overmold style with a bit longer gripping area than the smaller boot style model. These work very well for my hand size and allow a good grip for DAO shooting. They also conceal well for me without grabbing on to clothing very much. In my experience, grips that are so slick as to not catch some on clothing are so slick that they do not allow me to get the kind of grip I like when shooting a DAO revolver. I also like the Pachmayer Compact grips for the J Frames, but having that laser sight really makes a difference for me. I don't notice the laser in daylight hours, but in low light or night light or in my bedroom at night, that red dot is a very comforting sight which allows me to know exactly where I am pointing my J Frame. They certainly do not replace my sights, but they add a great deal to my efforts to sight my revolver at all times.
One experience to tell to demonstrate ... I live on five acres outside of a small community town. Town dogs unrestrained often visit my property at night. One I recently encountered, a black pit bull mix, came around the corner from behind one of my storage buildings about 10PM one night and continued to advance toward me, growling very aggressively. There was enough moonlight to see the dog, but not enough to see my sights, and as I drew my J Frame (constant carry), I shouted at the dog to cease and desist. He ignored my request and continued to advance. That laser dot allowed me to effectively interrupt his actions with one round fired. He will not threaten me or mine again on my property or any other property. Without the laser, who knows for sure? I have no desire whatsoever to wound such an animal. The laser dot allowed me know my point of aim exactly. I have no doubt that the same thing would be true in any low light situation and with any predator seeking to do harm to me or mine. That situation resulted in my feeling that the CT Laser grips paid for themselves in full that night. I highly recommend them to all!!!
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I carried a 642 for many years. Mrs. BE carried a model 60. Mrs. and I switched. First me then her. My reason was extra ammo, ease of carrying a mag vs. speedloader, and flat profile (I pocket carry in Nemesis holster. Mrs. reason was weight of the model 60. Here are ours:
I am debating the 405 vs the 305 for my 442. I shot well with the factory boot grip, but the recoil was a bit painful since I grip the gun up high on the frame and the factory grips kinda suck here. The boot grips cover the backstrap and have the air pocket to reduce the felt recoil. The 3 finger are longer and also cover the backstrap. I am leaning towards the 305 currently.
With the hogues, I notice my handle sliding on the grip as I shoot, should have gotten the checkered version I guess for more grip, so I will probably go with the 305. I may pick up another J frame soon (maybe a steel frame or another 442 MoonClip), so I may do 1 with each type of CT grip on it. Maybe the boot grip on the 442 and the 3 finger on the steel gun for pocket vs iwb carry.
With the hogues, I notice my handle sliding on the grip as I shoot, should have gotten the checkered version I guess for more grip, so I will probably go with the 305. I may pick up another J frame soon (maybe a steel frame or another 442 MoonClip), so I may do 1 with each type of CT grip on it. Maybe the boot grip on the 442 and the 3 finger on the steel gun for pocket vs iwb carry.
Frank237
Absent Comrade
Years back when I HAD to carry as I lived in the area I worked in...I carried a 2" M-60 but got all 007 and bought a PPK/s Walther in .380 one winter. I liked the Walther but simply never felt that well gunned with those little .380s. I DID like the extra rds and how easy it was to carry a spare magazine.....But eventually went back to the M60 for warm weather and a larger auto in the winter.
Do recall back then, there were really few 380 auto options; Walther PPK/s , Mauser HSC or the new AMT little .380. There may have been others but thats all I remember.
And .380 ammo wasn't quite the performer it is today either. With todays ammo that PPK/s has a bit more appeal. Glad I still have one.
FN in MT
Do recall back then, there were really few 380 auto options; Walther PPK/s , Mauser HSC or the new AMT little .380. There may have been others but thats all I remember.
And .380 ammo wasn't quite the performer it is today either. With todays ammo that PPK/s has a bit more appeal. Glad I still have one.
FN in MT
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