Would you????

[oldman45]

Every now and then I get an interesting case that makes me consider what I would do. Yesterday I got one. I pondered for an hour as to what I would have done and still not sure but it would have taken a split second had it happened to me. Now what would you have done?

Situation: Man (59 yrs old) and three adult family members are driving on a two lane State Highway at 55mph in a 55mph zone. Young man (32) came up behind them in a company truck and got on their bumper, then goes around them giving some obsene hand gestures. He then pulls to the right forcing their car off the roadway before speeding off. They call 911 and then as they round a curve, he has the roadway blocked and standing in the roadway with a tire iron in his hand. He yells things about going to kill the man and the man steps from his car to see what the problem is. The man continues to swing the tire iron in an attempt to hit the man in the head. The man grabs a tire iron and a confrontation begins. For some reason, the aggresor jumps in the company truck and tries to run the man down in the highway. He actually hits the man knocking him into a ditch. The bad guy is located and placed in jail under various felony charges.

So how would you have handled it? I lean toward the man brought a tire iron to a shooting.

 

[Maximumbob54]

Sounds like the exact reason I travel with a gun. I'm not searching for trouble, but when trouble comes lurking...

 

[CajunBass]

Easy. I would have stayed in my car. Put the car in reverse, or done a 180 and left.

.

 

[7shooter]

First mistake was getting out of his vehicle. It doesn't take a lot of imagination to guess that the idiot with the tire iron has bad intentions . A safer and more legally defensible action would be to stay in the lightly armored vehicle he is already in and back up as quickly as possible then turn around and exit the area. He has a legal ( and I think moral ) duty to retreat. To paraphrase Alvin York he should " seen my duty and done it " . Fleeing the situation places him in a better position legally if the pursuit continues and he later is forced to use force deadly or otherwise.

 

[oldman45]

Actually retreat was not an option. Other motorist had pulled in behind the man and the roadway is very narrow. He was pretty much blocked in at the scene. The good part is there is a lot of witnesses. Usually in rural settings, witnesses are not to be found.

I am going to attempt to learn what set the guy off. His company truck was impounded and I guess after I speak with his employers this morning that he likely will be terminated.

As to remaining in the vehicle, not real sure what would have happened but a tire iron can shatter a window and sitting behind a sterring wheel limits movement. I would have gotten out of the vehicle.

 

[CajunBass]

Actually retreat was not an option. Other motorist had pulled in behind the man and the roadway is very narrow. He was pretty much blocked in at the scene.

That's a totally different scenario than the first one.

A 180 might not have been easy. It may have taken some cutting and backing, but I'll bet it could have been done. I'll bet it could have been done before someone with a tire iron could do but so much damage to a moving 2-3000 pound battering ram.

 

[JcMack]

So how would you have handled it? I lean toward the man brought a tire iron to a shooting.

I can pretty much guarantee the guy in the company van would have had a problem if he did that around here. He'd more than likely have been facing an armed citizen. Would have been a bad deal shooting a guy that was armed with a tire iron, if said guy didn't back off.

 

[7shooter]

Assuming he really was totally blocked in I would probably still have stayed in the vehicle. If tire iron boy had shattered the window then he would have been forced to make the decision about firing or taking other action. Witnesses would be helpful but he would want them to be saying that he was a totally innocent person who did everything he could to avoid use of force. Getting out of the vehicle might be seen by a dippy prosecutor as escalating the situation and he would lose his position as an innocent victim of someone elses aggression. Having three other adults in his vehicle depending on their abilities might have offered options for controlling the situation. It is easy to second guess this man and it is hard to know what the correct course of action was in the heat of the moment. The problem is that the prosecutor has the leisure to think about all the things he should have done. If he had used deadly force in that situation I can think of two counties in my state where one county attorney that I know well would have called him in and thanked him for what he did and another where he would be arrested and prosecuted.

 

[Win75]

Blocking the road for no appearent reason, other persons in my vehicle, threatening with a tire iron. I would have stayed in the vehicle but any attempt to enter my vehicle would have been in the area of bringing a tire iron to a gun fight. The perp in this situation obviously intended to do bodily harm to the driver or anyone else in the vehicle.

 

[Iggy]

I would stay in the car. Exit the area if possible. If I could not get away, and the BG struck my car. He has showed intent to harm and his butt belongs to me.

 

[oldman45]

Since I was not on the scene at the time, I cannot say retreat was impossible. The witnesses will be interviewed over the next few days and I will learn more as to the events.

Right now, there are two injured victims that were total strangers to the perp and the perp is being held in jail without bond. The company truck has been impounded.

I still maintain I would have shot him and I would have exited the vehicle to keep his focus on myself rather than my family members. One strike with a tire iron to the head can incapacitate someone and the shattering of a side window can blind one next to it. Either way, the person in the vehicle can be rendered helpless and the attacks on family members could continue.

At this time and until I get more information, I think the man brought a tire iron to a gun fight and think a shooting would be justified.

 

[imashooter2]

Why would you resort to a gun when you are in a 4000 pound metal box propelled by 200 or more horses? If you are legally able to use deadly force with a gun, you are certainly able to use deadly force with a car. Drive away. If that is around him fine. If it bunts him out of the way, fine. If it is over him, well, that was his choice.

 

[Andy Griffith]

Does the state of Louisiana consider a tire iron a deadly weapon if it is being used as a weapon with intent to harm or kill?

Why did the feller get too close to a fellers truck anyway if he was holding a tire iron menacingly in his hand and after being run off the road from this criminal? Is it plausible that the guy in the truck may have been on hallucinogenic drugs of some kind?

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

Aside from all missing info...

If my vehicle is trapped... I'm getting out immediately, armed and standing between the bad guy and my family... and no matter what he is not getting by me. I'm telling my family to get out and retreat to the vehicles that have pulled up behind us.

Now if Zack was with us (Marine serving in Afghanistan) I'd just pop a beer and watch.

 

[seagill]

Aside from all missing info...

If my vehicle is trapped... I'm getting out immediately, armed and standing between the bad guy and my family... and no matter what he is not getting by me. I'm telling my family to get out and retreat to the vehicles that have pulled up behind us.

Now if Zack was with us (Marine serving in Afghanistan) I'd just pop a beer and watch.

I agree. Even armed I'd feel more vulnerable and less able to protect my family from inside the car. A tire iron is absolutely a deadly weapon.

 

[CAJUNLAWYER]

nevermind.

 

[Bill_inBouse]

Sounds to me like 7shooter is from a liberal state?. In Arizona you have no duty to retreat. Taking the situation as defined in the posts one has a DUTY to protect one's family if RETREAT is not an option. In Arizona this would be a dead BG if this happened to me.
oldman45 please keep us updated on the investigation and results.

Bill

 

[The Big D]

And we have a winner!

Be safe.

Easy. I would have stayed in my car. Put the car in reverse, or done a 180 and left.

.

 

[7shooter]

ChattanoogaPhil's scenario with Marines on board has definite merit.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

I agree. Even armed I'd feel more vulnerable and less able to protect my family from inside the car. A tire iron is absolutely a deadly weapon.

Right. Staying in the vehicle surrounded by your family is a horribly limiting fighting position. 'Hey honey, would you mind moving a bit to the left so I don't splatter your brains all over the inside of our new car trying to hit the bad guy bashing in your window.' Same with taking a position by the car door and waiting for the bad guy to approach... assuming he'll just walk up to you instead of maneuvering to the other side of the vehicle... then your family is between you and the bad guy.