"wrong way" for trigger finger placement?

Bedrockk

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I'm still very new to firearms & am still learning my way around my stock 9c. Everything I've learned this far has been through forums & other online materials.

I've been pulling my shots right (I'm a southpaw) & have been trying to figure out what I'm doing wrong. So far, I've tried to check the push/pull of my hands and had my sights checked, but I think it might be this:

Up to this point, I've been using just the pad of my finger under my fingernail. Tonight I was sitting here dry firing & simply kept shifting the front sight right. Then, I tried using the pad of my finger on the crease under my knuckle behind my fingernail - I noticed that it felt more comfortable, my finger had to move less (I have long piano-player fingers) & the front of the gun didn't pull right anymore.

Before I try this at the range tomorrow I wanted to ask: is this a wrong way to learn to fire a pistol?
 
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There's nothing wrong with using the joint of your finger rather than the pad, at least when shooting a service pistol with a 6# or more trigger pull, or anything in DA. This will usually cock the axis of the barrel with respect to the long bones of your forearm, but should not result in an "H" type grip away with too much recoil against the base of your thumb. The more you deviate from a straight line with your forearm, the less control you will have over recoil.

Grip as high as possible, with the web of your thumb pressed against the beavertail (or top break of a revolver). That give you better recoil control. For CCW, practice drawing the weapon so you achieve this grip without post-adjustments.

A lot is in muscle control. Practice moving your trigger finger with an empty but relaxed hand, so that your other fingers don't move in sympathy. That's pretty easy for anyone who plays an instrument or touch-types. With others, it just takes more practice. You should grip the pistol mostly from front to back, with as little side pressure as practical. That way, changes in your grip tension don't affect the point of aim as much.

Practice dry firing, thinking of pulling the tip (or joint) of your finger straight back, or even toward the palm of your hand.
 
You want to pull the trigger straight back (duh).

There's no avoiding the reality of the geometry and physics of your hands, grip, and pistol.

If you can't pull the trigger straight back with the first pad because your fingers are too long . . . take a close look at what part of your finger will pull the trigger back the straightest . . . and use that . . . for that pistol.

JMO :)
 
I'm still very new to firearms & am still learning my way around my stock 9c. Everything I've learned this far has been through forums & other online materials.

I've been pulling my shots right (I'm a southpaw) & have been trying to figure out what I'm doing wrong. So far, I've tried to check the push/pull of my hands and had my sights checked, but I think it might be this:

Up to this point, I've been using just the pad of my finger under my fingernail. Tonight I was sitting here dry firing & simply kept shifting the front sight right. Then, I tried using the pad of my finger on the crease under my knuckle behind my fingernail - I noticed that it felt more comfortable, my finger had to move less (I have long piano-player fingers) & the front of the gun didn't pull right anymore.

Before I try this at the range tomorrow I wanted to ask: is this a wrong way to learn to fire a pistol?

90 % of hitting anything with a hand gun is trigger control. It doesn't matter if you use the pad of the finger or the joint. Try dry firing in front of the TV and watch your sights. If the sights move when the hammer or striker falls, you have a problem. Do not jerk the trigger, use a slow steady pressure till the hammer falls. Keep practicing till the sights don't move when the hammer falls. If your sights move before the hammer falls, stop pulling on the trigger and realign the sights, then continue the pull. Once you have that mastered, concentrate on keeping the front sight on target.

Keeping the front sight on target is not hard and the least of things to be concerned about. The main thing is to maintain sight alignment while pulling the trigger.

Hope this helps.

WrongWay
 
To shoot straight you need everything in alignment. It starts with how you hold your pistol. It should be in the "V" between your thum and forefinger with the barrel aligned with the arm and elbow. You need to squeeze the trigger in line with the bore directly back, for most people that means using the first pad of the trigger finger. Too much finger on the trigger and you will apply pressure against the side of the pistol pushing shots left for right handers and right for left handers.

Watch Todd Jarrett IPSC Pistol Grip Lesson for good tips on how to hold and place the trigger.
 
That video by Todd Jarret is an excellent choice to establish a starting point. However, it's not at all or uncommon to deviate a bit from this starting point due to your individual needs.

For example when Todd ages a bit more he'll drop that advice about "crystal clear" sights and start advocating Point Shooting. It's an unfortunate aspect of getting older, most of us lose the ability to focus on objects held close to us and reading glasses throw a target so far out of focus that you lose too much detail in the target.

Finger placement on the trigger is another area where some deviation can be expected. Peoples hands can range from those with large palms with short stubby fingers to those of a pianist with smaller palms and long slender fingers. It's why many custom grip makers back in the day of revolvers would require a hand tracing before starting on a custom grip. One unfortunate aspect of many modern handguns is that they feature "one size fits all" grips that force us to stray a bit from what would be considered ideal.

First, a definition. The pad on the end of your finger with the "fingerprint" is called the Distal Pad. I've found from lots of experiments and shooting with double action revolvers that what works best for me. I draw an imaginary line half way between the Center of the distal pad and the crease of the first joint. This imaginary line is then placed so that it's centered on the trigger. Depending on the width of the trigger this means that the first crease is at the side of the trigger or actually partly engaged on the trigger with wide target triggers. If you want a good place to start, try using a pen or your mide to draw a line on your finger in this position.

Next, do what you have been doing. That is pull the trigger with snap caps in your gun and watch for movement in the sights during the trigger stroke. BTW, this is one reason why I believe Revolvers are the finest handguns for training on the planet, they allow you to observe your sights while making a LONG trigger stroke. What you then want to do is experiment with your finger placement until you find a position that produces the LEAST disturbance in the sights FOR YOU.

BTW, you also want to make sure to watch your sights at the very end of the trigger stroke as the trigger breaks. If you find that your sights jerk just as the hammer drops it's a clear indication that you are "jerking" the trigger at the very end to force the break. This is most likely the single most difficult habit to break and until you learn to "allow" the trigger to break without any jerk you'll keep throwing out "flyers". BTW, no striker or hammer on the planet has enough power to cause the gun to jerk when it drops, so those who claim that their finishing jerk is due to the hammer dropping are misleading themselves and unwilling to admit they have a habit that needs correction.

Finally, IMO people are a bit over concerned about the gun being perfectly aligned with the bones in the forearm. The simple truth is that this alignment is nearly impossible from an isocelles stance because you have to place your elbow on your sternum, a rather unstable position. Perfect alignment can only be achieved naturally one hand from a Duelists Stance. So, use alignment as a starting point only and adapt as needed to the way your body requires.
 
Bedrockk you have great comments from each post. I just wanted to say practic, practice, practice is a must for accuracy. The "V" notch of the hand is very important because if that is right then everything else falls where it does and that has worked for me for over 35 years. And one other thought on stance and firing the weapon, 30 of those 35 years of shooting has made clear to me that when firing under stress, for me at least, my body squares up to be facing the threat. I know that I am exposesing more of my torso than if I maintained the isoceles stance, but when instinct takes over, I square up and point. Enjoy your pistol! that is whay we shoot, the M&P is a brilliant piece of work in my opinion. Good Luck and have fun:)
 
Thanks to all for the in depth responses to my post. Everyone's input is really thorough & extremely helpful. Thanks again. :)
 
If you're new to shooting and relatively Self-Taught, it'd really be worth your money to sign up for a shooting class. Practice, on its own is one thing, but practicing good technique is better.

In a class, you'd have an instructor watching your technique and able to correct possible problems on the spot. It's tough for anyone to spot their own issues. It takes a second set of eyes.

If you can't afford a class right off the bat, see if your range has an RO that could spot you for a bit, to see if they might be able to identify issues with your grip, or trigger control. If that's not an option and you shoot with a friend, have them video your technique while you're shooting, so you can see what your grip, stance, etc look like for yourself.
 
here's an update on my trigger finger placement:

the first pic is where i was positioning my index finger before posting this thread (it felt more like i was pushing the trigger in than pulling it back and had a lot of movement at both knuckles in my index finger); the second pic is where i was positioning my index finger after reading some of the feedback (just a nice steady movement at the middle knuckle only); the third & fourth pics are me putting 5 & 8 rounds, respectively, into the target at just over 5 yards (i know - not that far, but i've only been shooting for a month). believe me when i tell you its a vast improvement from yesterday.

thanks again for everyone's great advice. :D:D:D
 

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I went to the range a week ago and shot my MP 40 for the first time and was doing the shooting low and left that a lot of shooters do. I actually started thinking that there is something wrong with the gun!
I then took a week to fix the problem on my end ..If it was on my end?!...bought some snap caps and changed my grip a bit...started pulling trigger in the first joint instead of the pad and watching my targets. After a day of "FAKING IT" my aimpoint didnt move!

Today I went to the range and tried my new grip and trigger pull. The first shot at head was dead center....I continued to cut a 3 inch hole dead center in the head of the target at 15 yards....at 25 yards I could cover 25 shots with my palm in the 9 and 10 rings.

I then went back to my old hold and trigger pull for 5 shots and sure enough low and left.

Funny thing is I have a Ruger SR9C and a Ruger P90 / .45 and I get good results using my finger pad and my old grip. It's not just the person but the gun characteristics as well.
You just have to try everything until it all CLICKS! I'm getting great groups now but I'll always be looking for a way to improve...Until I get a box of shells through the same hole anyway LOL!

I've just given myself permission to buy the MP in 9 / 357 Sig and .45...Now if I can just get the wife to give permission...???!!!


Ernie
 
You can also place a dime on top of the front sight and try to keep it balanced while you press the trigger ( not pull ). When squeezing, the wrist bends down.
 
There is a book called Surgical Speed Shooting by Andy Stanford that I got on Amazon for my kindle. It is, IMO, the best instruction I have found for how to shoot, grip, trigger, sights, etc. I would recommend checking that out.
 
There is a book called Surgical Speed Shooting by Andy Stanford that I got on Amazon for my kindle. It is, IMO, the best instruction I have found for how to shoot, grip, trigger, sights, etc. I would recommend checking that out.

Does it cover point shooting?
 
The only "Right Way" is whatever works for you. All the others are the wrong way.
 
It may not only be a trigger issue. You may be looking at the target at the last second, taking your eyes off the front sight, or anticipation of the shot. The compact gun is harder to learn on. Try putting a full size magazine with an xgrip and see if it improves your shooting. As you shoot think, front sight, front sight.
 
That video by Todd Jarret is an excellent choice to establish a starting point. However, it's not at all or uncommon to deviate a bit from this starting point due to your individual needs.

For example when Todd ages a bit more he'll drop that advice about "crystal clear" sights and start advocating Point Shooting. It's an unfortunate aspect of getting older, most of us lose the ability to focus on objects held close to us and reading glasses throw a target so far out of focus that you lose too much detail in the target.

Finger placement on the trigger is another area where some deviation can be expected. Peoples hands can range from those with large palms with short stubby fingers to those of a pianist with smaller palms and long slender fingers. It's why many custom grip makers back in the day of revolvers would require a hand tracing before starting on a custom grip. One unfortunate aspect of many modern handguns is that they feature "one size fits all" grips that force us to stray a bit from what would be considered ideal.

First, a definition. The pad on the end of your finger with the "fingerprint" is called the Distal Pad. I've found from lots of experiments and shooting with double action revolvers that what works best for me. I draw an imaginary line half way between the Center of the distal pad and the crease of the first joint. This imaginary line is then placed so that it's centered on the trigger. Depending on the width of the trigger this means that the first crease is at the side of the trigger or actually partly engaged on the trigger with wide target triggers. If you want a good place to start, try using a pen or your mide to draw a line on your finger in this position.

Next, do what you have been doing. That is pull the trigger with snap caps in your gun and watch for movement in the sights during the trigger stroke. BTW, this is one reason why I believe Revolvers are the finest handguns for training on the planet, they allow you to observe your sights while making a LONG trigger stroke. What you then want to do is experiment with your finger placement until you find a position that produces the LEAST disturbance in the sights FOR YOU.

BTW, you also want to make sure to watch your sights at the very end of the trigger stroke as the trigger breaks. If you find that your sights jerk just as the hammer drops it's a clear indication that you are "jerking" the trigger at the very end to force the break. This is most likely the single most difficult habit to break and until you learn to "allow" the trigger to break without any jerk you'll keep throwing out "flyers". BTW, no striker or hammer on the planet has enough power to cause the gun to jerk when it drops, so those who claim that their finishing jerk is due to the hammer dropping are misleading themselves and unwilling to admit they have a habit that needs correction.

Finally, IMO people are a bit over concerned about the gun being perfectly aligned with the bones in the forearm. The simple truth is that this alignment is nearly impossible from an isocelles stance because you have to place your elbow on your sternum, a rather unstable position. Perfect alignment can only be achieved naturally one hand from a Duelists Stance. So, use alignment as a starting point only and adapt as needed to the way your body requires.

Scooter, I really loved this reply! I have small hands and there is not a gun on the market which will allow me to have barrel perfectly aligned with the bones in my forum.

I focus more on proper placement of my finger on trigger and yes I know the recoil by turning my hand to the right of the gun(I am right handed) will have recoil going into my wrists as opposed to my arm, but if I have proper wrist alignment my shots are centered and not pulling left in spite of the fact my tip of finger is pushing left, but my shots are going way down.

Now if I focus on finger pad on center of trigger, my shots are dead center both elevation and windage. Ironically I also like the largest back strap on my MP 2.0 as it fills my hand better and gives me a firm pirch
 
Bedrock.
As every different gun on the market has different dimensions , say from small pocket 380s to Xframe or Desert Eagle, it is necessary to acquire the correct grip, trigger finger placement wrist control and test the trigger to get the feel for each different gun.

I like to first confirm sight regulation "zero" with sandbags to rest my hands while carefully shooting a few rounds. This is an informal check. If sigt alignment is good then practice.
Dry for empty gun.
I like to dry fire to get the feel of the trigger break. Also adjust my grip and trigger finger placement such that right at trigger break I am naturally pressing directly back and the barrel front sight stays on target. In other words I do not use some push pull crush grip or other auxiliary methods. I actually use an old fashion one hand target style with follow through.
Realize this only to establish the sweet spot combination for me to get good poa/ poi with natural press and barrel sight stays on target.

Once I know that then I would use two hand methods such as modern style, Weaver or any other.
The point of this method is to get good way natural hits with that gun.
I later branch out to other styles.

This is what I do. It is similar to others in the thread maybe explained differently or different by starting with a target style popular in yester year .
Good luck.
 
OttoLoader, Bedrockk hasn't been active on the forum since Sept. 2012, a couple months after he started this thread.
marathonrunner revived this 8 year old thread, then today started a new thread with the same topic ?
Sounds like he needs an answer.
 
OttoLoader, Bedrockk hasn't been active on the forum since Sept. 2012, a couple months after he started this thread.
marathonrunner revived this 8 year old thread, then today started a new thread with the same topic ?
Sounds like he needs an answer.

I did not check the post date.
Anyway I was trying to share some tips to help a beginner.
Thanks
 
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