WWB ammo issue?

[tocohillsguy]

Took the wife shooting this last weekend. We had a few failure to fires with her 442 snub using Wally World WWB ammo. When I looked at the primer I could see a light indentation from the firing pin. The ones that fired had a much deeper and more pronounced indentation. I eventually got them to touch off, but one of them had to be hit 4 or 5 times before it went bang. I've never encountered this problem before. It was as if the primer was rock hard. Is this an ammo problem or a gun problem? I'm inclined to think it's an ammo issue, because it only occurred occassionally and in at least one case on the same round multiple times. If it's ammo related is this a typical WWB issue?

 

[BreakerDan]

It could either be an ammunition or a revolver problem.
The only way to tell would be to switch to another
make of ammunition and see if the problem continues.

I have heard many people lately complaining of
primer strike problems. I had that problem in
a Model 10-6 last week firing Magtech ammunition.
Some of the primers were barely dented and some
had nearly been rammed completely through by the
firing pin. No failure to fires though.

I have almost stopped purchasing bargain ammo entirely
due to the many problems encountered. I would stick to the
quality lead round nose and ball even though it costs more just
to avoid problems ie....Super X or Express.

 

[00blkgt]

I would just strongly encourage you to fire what you plan on carrying in that revolver. That is the brand that counts!

 

[coleslaw]

We were at the range last month with a group of people. One person had a Ruger semi-auto pistol that was doing the same thing. Using WWB from Wally World, he had a couple of fail to fires every mag. Primer looked like it had a light strike. I don't recall the caliber, maybe .380.

At the same session, I ran almost 100 rounds of WWB through my 1911. Made the gun so filthy, I had a few fail to feeds in a gun that had never had an issue. I had to strip the gun, the mags and spend a while cleaning the whole mess up.

An instructor who was there, rattled off a laundry list of problems he has seen with this ammo and advised against it in a gun you had to depend on. I have decided to not use it anymore.

I would get some different, quality ammo and see if the problem goes away before I got too excited.

 

[chief38]

Sounds to me like the main spring might be too light for whatever reason, OR there is something that is causing the hammer to hang up and not hit with a full force blow. Not saying it couldn't be the primers, but unless you can see that they are not set to the correct depth, I would doubt that. What I would suggest is to fire the same lot of ammo out of another 38 spl. and see if you can duplicate the problem. If not, I would say you have a problem with the revolver. If the same ammo has the same problems with another revolver that you know is OK, I would get on the horn with Mr. Winchester.

chief38

 

[Buford57]

A month or so ago I shot up the last of a 50-round box of WWB .38 Specials with no problem. I then opened a 100-count box of the same stuff and found that while all of it fired in a 6" M28-2 and a 4" M15-3, it caused the barrels of both to get too hot to touch within 6 rounds. I did not compare lot numbers, but since they were purchased about a year apart I doubt they were the same.

A friend in Dallas had the same experience with the WWB .45 ACP 100 packs in his 4586, while I have shot the same ammo through a converted .455 HE 2nd and an EAA Witness with no overheating. The HE is only getting .455 velocity lead reloads or factory .45 AR from here on, though.

Since this is their economy grade ammo, it would not surprise me to learn that leftover components from the premium runs was being used up in the WWB stuff and that the production standard is a certain velocity and pressure range rather than finely tuned loads.

The only FTFs I have experienced with factory centerfire ammo recently was S&B .357s. Despite its other quirks the WWB always went "bang".

 

[turbo38gn]

I'm surprised to hear of any problems with WWB, been using it almost exclusively in all my guns, 9,40,45 M&P's and 1911. It's shot the best and I can't say I've had any issues like those above.. maybe cleaning, I notice lots of powder on the front slide of the S&W1911-45... I would take that stuff to any gunfight.. and not think twice about it. I just shot about 200 WWB through my 1911 the last week without cleaning and I plan to keep shooting without cleaning for a while...
Just checked the chamber.. yep, it's ugly there.. but I'ma gonna keep on shooting.. let ya know If I have any problems.

 

[Harrison]

I have notice a marked increase in failure to fires in some recently purchased Win Large and Small pistol primers. My 625 has taken a dislike to the most recent lot# of WLP. It fired an older lot# fine. I am suspecting the primers rather than the pistols. I had the FF problem with WSP in two seperate pistols, a 686 and Mdl 19. None of this happened with primers that were several years old. Has the recent primer shortage brought about not only greatly increased prices, but also a QC problem?

 

[moxie]

Almost certainly this is a gun problem. Get it checked.

 

[SMSgt]

A light strike is just that. Never had an issue with WWB, but don't use it much.

 

[scooter123]

Almost certainly this is a gun problem. Get it checked.

You can't make a blanket assumption like this when using an economy grade ammunition. A poorly seated primer will produce what looks just like a light strike. Because all that "light" hit did was drive the primer deeper in the case.

In addition I've seen some rumors on the net that the White Box not marked USA is imported from China. I'm not going to place a lot of faith in that rumor, however might be possible it came from some rather poor contractor in Eastern Europe or south of the border.

To the OP, if you want to really determine if it's a gun or ammo issue, you'll need to use a first rank ammunition. One that I would suggest is Speer Lawman TMJ or FMJ.

I have 2 reasons for suggesting the Speer Lawman. One is the reputation on the net that Speer uses rather hard primers, so your insuring your gun will function properly with a premium grade of ammunition that uses a somewhat hard primer. BTW, I like Speer Gold Dots for defense, so reliability with Speer ammunition is critical for me.

The second is due to a recent session of benchrest shooting my model 620 after installing a new optical sight. I saw so little vertical stringing of the shots fired at 35 yards that I was amazed. Total vertical deviation for 5 rounds was less than 3/8 inch. Vertical stringing in a group shot from a sandbag rest is almost always due to a variation in the velocity of the fired round. Seeing such a small deviation in the vertical indicates that the ammunition is VERY consistent, both for ignition and load. Bottomline, this stuff is some of the best range ammo I've EVER shot. Another plus is it shot very clean. BTW, I'll also note that it "felt" a bit hot, more like a +P loading than most of the 38 spl. range ammo I've shot.

BTW, also tried 158 gr. LRN Blazer in the 620 and I won't ever make that mistake again, it was both dirty and leaded up the barrel worse than I've ever seen. Took a full 3 hours of patching the barrel with a peroxide/vinegar mix to get it clean. Speer should drop that round, it's just awful.

 

[chessail 77]

I use WWB in 9mm,.40cal and .45 with no problems....all was purchased 6 mos. ago or longer....

 

[moxie]

scooter123,
I can and did make that assumption. Many years of experience as a munitions officer and service-wide munitions manager lead me to believe that light strikes are almost always the fault of the gun when using commercial ammo. I think that ammo is likely made in the USA, but even if it isn't, it is probably OK. Of course he should fire a few rounds of other brands to see what happens. Certainly Speer is OK as is Remington, Winchester, Federal, CorBon, etc. Tula works. So does Aguila. So does Wolf. So does S&B. Most commercial ammo goes bang when the primer is hit right. Three rounds or so that FTF in a box point to the gun, not the ammo. IMHO.

 

[tocohillsguy]

I'll probably take it back out to the range this weekend, and try some other ammo. The rounds at issue were in a WWB 100 round economy pack, and I was about 50% into the second 50 when the problem surfaced. I can't recall what I used to fire the first 75 rounds, but at least some of them were used in earlier range visits with the 442, and rest were probably my 19-3 snub. I'm almost certain I used this same box of ammo on an earlier range visit when my wife decided she hated the stock boot grips, and in a subsequent visit when I sighted in the new laser grips. All of those were without incident. In fact, this is the first time I've ever had a 38 round not go bang on the first strike (with this gun or any gun). I wish there was a way of testing the gun without burning through multiple ammo experiments. If it is a gun problem, then it has to be an intermittent problem, because some of the strikes were clear and pronounced. If I can get it to happen on another round, I'll take the same round and run it through another 442 snub to see if it has the same issue with the same round. BTW, this the first box of ammo this gun has seen.

 

[moxie]

Aha, brand new gun! Points even more directly to the gun as the problem. Suggest you clean that gun real well before firing again. The firing pin could be dry or gummed up. A little cleaning and oiling followed by some dry firing might cure the problem. If it persists, it's back to S&W for a fix.

 

[K1500]

Probably gun/short firing pin.

FWIW, a fired round will always have a much deeper FP indention due to the back thrust of the fired round. Thus you might think it is hard primers when it is really the gun striking all the rounds that hard and the ones that go off have deeper marks as a result of firing.

 

[tocohillsguy]

Aha, brand new gun! Points even more directly to the gun as the problem. Suggest you clean that gun real well before firing again. The firing pin could be dry or gummed up. A little cleaning and oiling followed by some dry firing might cure the problem. If it persists, it's back to S&W for a fix.

Gun is pretty clean, and I'm not inclined to remove the side plate. Perhaps I'll dunk it in a tank of Prolix, or spray some CLP into the firing in area. If I remove and then reinstall the laser grips, will I need to sight it in again?

BTW, it's a new gun, but it doesn't have the "lube hole" above the cylinder release latch.

 

[tocohillsguy]

Probably gun/short firing pin.

FWIW, a fired round will always have a much deeper FP indention due to the back thrust of the fired round. Thus you might think it is hard primers when it is really the gun striking all the rounds that hard and the ones that go off have deeper marks as a result of firing.

Okay I've taken a closer look at the gun, and compared the firing pin to another 442. It's noticably shorter. I'll call S&W tomorrow.

 

[revolvergeek]

I have shot a bunch of WWB .380 lately without any problems. I would shoot it again, same ammo, and mark the chambers with a sharpie when you get a failure to fire, and see if it is always happening on the same one or not. I have seen several j-frames lately that had a bit of a tolerance problem that caused one or two chambers to get much lighter firing pin strikes than the others.

 

[xopher88x]

I shoot WWB a lot. At least 100 rounds per week of various calibers. I've never had a single issue with the ammo. It's dirty, it turns my fingers yellow and my guns black. But for cheap stuff it will do.