Most of them have a 24 V transformer to run a thermostat and a gas valve. Several have a millivolt system that will run the burner without the fan using voltage from the pilot generator. There could be a rocker switch under the control cover that says on, off, thermostat. On T/stat it functions through the stat, on gives you manual control and constant on. 120 V on a gas appliance is rare for the control system and thermostat circuit.
Yet another emergency home generator question.
- Thread starter Jeff423
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Most of them have a 24 V transformer to run a thermostat and a gas valve. Several have a millivolt system that will run the burner without the fan using voltage from the pilot generator. There could be a rocker switch under the control cover that says on, off, thermostat. On T/stat it functions through the stat, on gives you manual control and constant on. 120 V on a gas appliance is rare for the control system and thermostat circuit.
bwade
Member
I have had a generator that I have not started or exercised it in over 10 years! I know it will work as soon as I need it because it is a 15KW PTO generator that attaches to my 45HP Tractor. I will attach it when I need it, the tractor stays ready anyway because I use it frequently.
Also, the Tractor Generator is much less expensive than the fuel generators and requires zero upkeep. You just back your tractor up to your house plugin, flip off the main breaker (to keep from electrocuting the linemen), connect your ground, and start powering on breakers in your house as needed. Tractor will just sit there and run on all that diesel that you pour into it!
Here is a link to Northern Tools biggest PTO generator:
Just a moment...
Try buying a 24KW generator that has its own engine and you will quickly see the savings.
I was in charge of our City's 911 emergency generator (propane 100KW) that was in a self-contained building that was exercised weekly and had a monthly contractual maintenance with a company that specialized in generator maintenance all over the country. Guess what, the engine in the generator had metal shavings in it anyway after 10 years from an area on the engine that could not be seen when the temperature changed (causing condensation) and the maintenance company did not find it. Had to replace the big block engine with a crate engine. Was about a $15k repair with city employee mechanics doing the work. Priced a new generator and it was about $250k installed with a crane into our 2nd floor building, and maybe 150k watts. The stand alone generators will fail. We ended our contract with the maintenance company and had those city employee mechanics maintenance it ever since (past 5 years).
Also, the Tractor Generator is much less expensive than the fuel generators and requires zero upkeep. You just back your tractor up to your house plugin, flip off the main breaker (to keep from electrocuting the linemen), connect your ground, and start powering on breakers in your house as needed. Tractor will just sit there and run on all that diesel that you pour into it!
Here is a link to Northern Tools biggest PTO generator:
Just a moment...
Try buying a 24KW generator that has its own engine and you will quickly see the savings.
I was in charge of our City's 911 emergency generator (propane 100KW) that was in a self-contained building that was exercised weekly and had a monthly contractual maintenance with a company that specialized in generator maintenance all over the country. Guess what, the engine in the generator had metal shavings in it anyway after 10 years from an area on the engine that could not be seen when the temperature changed (causing condensation) and the maintenance company did not find it. Had to replace the big block engine with a crate engine. Was about a $15k repair with city employee mechanics doing the work. Priced a new generator and it was about $250k installed with a crane into our 2nd floor building, and maybe 150k watts. The stand alone generators will fail. We ended our contract with the maintenance company and had those city employee mechanics maintenance it ever since (past 5 years).
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The dealer who installed ours comes out yearly to change the oil and service the generator.
The main reason we went with Kohler was their reputation. The 2nd reason is the Kohler engines have hydraulic tappets, whereas the Generac engines have adjustable tappets that need to be adjusted every now and then.
To be honesty I did not realize that at the time. I went with a well regarded outfit and they take care of stuff like that with a service contract. I live rural on the lake and may year around people have generators. From what I have seen Generac by far is the most used whole house generator up here.
prairieviper
Member
If you don't mind me asking, what do they charge for that? The company that installed my gf's 13kW Kohler want $300 for the annual checkup. (They also want the genny connected to her wi-fi, which she will not do.) The same company also put in her Triangle Tube NG boiler a few years ago and want the same annual service fee, but apparenty they "can't" do both on the same service call for less because of "different technicians", which I think is a load of horsepuckey.
Someone once said, "a specialist is someone who knows more and more about less and less" which would seem to be the case here
The normal fee is $288. We do get a discount through one of their service programs. Our Generac is WI-Fi capable, although we do not use that feature since our generator sets 150 feet from the house and getting a reliable WI-Fi signal at that distance isn't consistent. We can also turn that feature on or off through the control box if we choose.
As far as techs go, the outfit we use has different techs for electrical, plumbing, heating and air conditioning, generators, etc. So, if someone were at our place working on the generator and we had a plumbing issue, it would involve another tech that was trained and specialized in plumbing coming out and yes, another service call, in most cases.
I have to say, the outfit we use is responsive, reliable, has well trained personnel and is available 7 days a week if you need them. It is well worth the yearly fees. I consider it money well spent.
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OBH, My two YO Kohler is 20KW or so and the electrical contractor/dealer that installed it wants $500+ for annual maintenance. I paid up the first year. In discussing with the technician who did the annual maintenance, and who confirmed that my generator was not using oil appreciably, I decided to do the maintenance every two years as a way of saving money. I am not totally comfortable with that, but the technician believed that every two years will be sufficient and I did buy a ten-year warranty so if something breaks it should be covered. I also check the oil periodically and so far it has not heeded any oil added.If you don't mind me asking, what do they charge for that? The company that installed my gf's 13kW Kohler want $300 for the annual checkup. (They also want the genny connected to her wi-fi, which she will not do.) The same company also put in her Triangle Tube NG boiler a few years ago and want the same annual service fee, but apparenty they "can't" do both on the same service call for less because of "different technicians", which I think is a load of horsepuckey.
Someone once said, "a specialist is someone who knows more and more about less and less" which would seem to be the case here
Now if I were your GF, I would have my knowledgable BF take care of it for me and eschew the maintenance service charges entirely...
BTW, why does she not want her genny connected to her WiFi? It is a handy way of keeping track of the unit both for her and whoever is supposed to maintain it. (Maybe her BF needs the app?!)
prairieviper
Member
That is one reason why we still maintain our old 8500 watts, portable generator. Things happen.
We have a Honda EU2000i.....that will run our gas fired furnace.....the refridgerator.....the big screen tv...and a few lights.....all the time when power is lost....if I turn off the furnace ..briefly...I can use the microwave......the Honda can not be heard running in the back yard...by the neighbors.....it will run for eleven hours on its internal one gallon fuel tank........I have added a portable marine gas tank.....three gallons...that I can top off each day at noon..without needing to shut the Honda down.....best $800 ever spent for backup power....
IF you already have a diesel tractor, of course
I have a 17 HP c.1980 gray-market Yanmar and briefly thought of a PTO-driven generator, but came across a local guy on Craigslist who rebuilds diesel generators who set me up with my Onan 6kW. I built a sound-reducing box for it, with a small ceramic heat bulb to keep it warm in winter - so no smoke on start-up - and fans to draw cooling air through when running. It sits in my covered basement entrance and can barely be heard upstairs. I was even able to get a manual from Onan.
It was originally a marine genny which used a keel cooler, hence the externally-mounted rad. & fan. You can just see the 100L (25-gallon) fuel tank at upper left.
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I think she has gone the 2-year route, alternating boiler and genny. As t the wi-fi, we are both a bit leery about "smart" devices being connected 24/7. Probably harmless, but... There is supposed to be a way of plugging a USB stick into a port on the genny (as presumably the tech does) and checking any potential error messages against files on the mfr's website, but the installers "don't know anything about that" and the Generac website is effectively impenetrable. And of course, if not regularly maintained by a tech, the warranty could be affected, which makes sense.
Yes, the "knowledgable BF" has thought about it
The basic stuff, like changing oil, replacing filters, etc. is easy enough.The real "problem" is just the IMHO questionable practice of charging a double service fee for two NG appliances on the same premises.
GypsmJim
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A generator is a generator, regardless of how it is propelled. I found out the hard way that is not used for a long time it will lose its "charge" (for lack of a better term).
Our mountain cabin is run 100% on propane....light, furnace, etc.
I had a small backup portable genny that I bought just for an emergency if I needed power. I used it once when I got it, but never needed it. It sat for years. I would start it up once a year just so the engine was "exercised". Then, I needed it. It started up fine but when I plugged a cord in I got no electricity. A google indicated that it had lost its charging capabilities because of lack of use.
If I ever get another genny I'll make a point of using it once in awhile just because.
That's interesting, Narragansett. My understanding is the NEC is safety focused. As I mentioned in my earlier post, the boiler's control unit being plugged into an outlet does look pretty flaky. Can you comment on possible safety concerns or other rationale that might be behind the code?
FWIW, it did pass inspection back in 2001. If memory serves the house electrical inspection was done before the boiler was installed. Perhaps that was how it was overlooked.
What happens to generators that aren't used in a long time is moisture penetration of the coils. Depending upon how the thing is built, there might be "permanent" magnets that lose their power and kill the thing.
Where I worked had 4 emergency diesel alternators that could produce 4000 KW each. They were maintained in hot ready with warm circulating coolant and lube oil plus heaters in the alternators. Even so, they each had test runs each month.
The portable generators I've owned suggest running on about 1/2 load for an hour each quarter, oil changes every 48 hours of use.
Where I worked had 4 emergency diesel alternators that could produce 4000 KW each. They were maintained in hot ready with warm circulating coolant and lube oil plus heaters in the alternators. Even so, they each had test runs each month.
The portable generators I've owned suggest running on about 1/2 load for an hour each quarter, oil changes every 48 hours of use.
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Mainsail
Member
I noticed a MEP-802A genset on the gov auction, threw down a low bid and went out for a walk. Mid way through, I got the email that I'd won.
Fast forward to the week before last, it was 15 degrees and out went the lights. No worries, fired up the generator and rode it out 6 hours no problem.
The MEP-802 is rated at 5K watts, but that's a military 5K, so it'll do 6550 without breaking a sweat. I have to add load to it to prevent the diesel from wet-stacking. Powering my whole house only ran it to about 55%.
So the whole thing, generator, auction fees, shipping, concrete slab, electrician to wire it to the house and install a safety switch and I'm into this for under $2K.
Being the only house with full power when it's 15 degrees - priceless.
Fast forward to the week before last, it was 15 degrees and out went the lights. No worries, fired up the generator and rode it out 6 hours no problem.
The MEP-802 is rated at 5K watts, but that's a military 5K, so it'll do 6550 without breaking a sweat. I have to add load to it to prevent the diesel from wet-stacking. Powering my whole house only ran it to about 55%.
So the whole thing, generator, auction fees, shipping, concrete slab, electrician to wire it to the house and install a safety switch and I'm into this for under $2K.
Being the only house with full power when it's 15 degrees - priceless.
