Your carry is spotted in a restaurant. What would you do?

It was the one in St Charles awhile back... oh, maybe 6-8 months ago or so. I emailed the head office and got this reply back...

Dear (Me)
Thanks for the heads up-let me clear up your concerns.

We do have what we call as Greeters both at entry and exit.
As a conceal and carry customer all we ask is that you notify and show your permit to do so. That's it.
Any other firearms brought in to the store must be checked in at the front end-tagged-and noted per policy. Hope this clears any concerns you may have. Thanks
Bob Brownlee-GM
 
The local area Bass Pro asks that all guns be unloaded before entering the store and the sign says at the entrance says to check your guns at the desk.

But then I have never been in a pawn shop that did not have a "All guns must be unloaded before entering" sign on their door.

An unloaded gun does not shoot. A gun that does not shoot is worthless. Why would one want an unloaded gun?
 
Be careful. In Michigan, flashing while possessing a CCW can be grounds to revoke the permit.

I'm an IWB carrier, myself, generally. I'd hate to flash and I'm nuts about imprinting. We are, after all, responsible enough to keep the peace, eh?

This was only true when Michigan was still May Issue and Open Carry wasn't recognized as a Right under both the State and Federal Constitution. Now that Open Carry is recognized state wide under Pre-Emption, the concern for printing or exposing a concealed firearm no longer exists for those with a permit to carry concealed. However, some Police Officers hate responding to MWAG calls so it's still a good idea to keep your concealed carry well concealed. However, there is no penalty for flashing as long as you have your CPL, just a lecture from a PO'd Cop. BTW, those caught carrying concealed without a Permit, that's another story, in Michigan that's a 5 year Felony.

Note, I am not a fan of Open Carry in a City or Township, I think that currently it just adds fuel to the anti gun fire. So, when not in the woods my handguns are well concealed. However, the Open Carry movement has provided one benefit in that printing or flashing due to a sudden wind gust is no longer a concern.

As for the resturant scenerio, it won't happen to me. I rarely eat out and when I do it's IWB in a tuckable holster. I would have to be blind drunk to allow my gun to be exposed and I'm not a drinker.
 
It was the one in St Charles awhile back... oh, maybe 6-8 months ago or so. I emailed the head office and got this reply back...

Dear (Me)
Thanks for the heads up-let me clear up your concerns.

We do have what we call as Greeters both at entry and exit.
As a conceal and carry customer all we ask is that you notify and show your permit to do so. That's it.
Any other firearms brought in to the store must be checked in at the front end-tagged-and noted per policy. Hope this clears any concerns you may have. Thanks
Bob Brownlee-GM

When I was there in April, they didn't have any signs posted anywhere on the doors regarding CCW guns. I would NEVER show them my permit or "notify" them that I was carrying. That is none of their business.
 
I would ask him if his Son got shot for being nosey or stupid.

I would tell them that my grandpa lived to be a hundred years old and say, "did you know what his secret was?"

"minding his own business" :cool:
 
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After covering up the exposed weapon, were I a private citizen, legally armed (not LE) I might respond to this hypothetical with something like:

"I am sorry for the loss of your son. I can only imagine how painful that must be. I can understand why you would hate guns. If the sight of my gun was upsetting to you, I apologize. However, I can assure you that I am legally authorized to be armed and am law abiding."

Acknowledging (not agreeing with) his emotion-based view may help de-escalate things. The above statement deflects his aggressive verbal challenge and would probably be something unexpected.

And, simply stating that you are legally armed and law abiding offers a simple, matter of fact, unemotional, and truthful "reality check".

I wouldn't go into my justification for being armed. It's not his business and I have no duty to explain myself to him. Don't let him put you on the defensive about being armed, if you are within your legal rights. Don't say anything that could be construed as impersonating LE. Assume everything you say could wind up in a police report at this point.

The person in the hypothetical is driven by powerful emotions which cloud judgment and make listening to reason next to impossible. Here we have a presumably unarmed man challenging an armed man. Clearly, not rational behavior. Rationality (and the ability to respond to reason) won't return to him until his emotional levels lower. The above statement is geared to lowering those emotions.

The ball is now in his court. He will either escalate or de-escalate.

If he escalates (verbally), I might respond with silence. Silence makes all of us uncomfortable. He may grow frustrated and walk away.

If that fails to work, I might say something like, "You have come over to my table. I did not invite you. I've listened to your concerns and acknowledged your point of view. I don't wish to discuss this further. Please leave me alone. I am in the middle of dinner. "

If that fails to work, then get up and ask the manager to call the police (but keep a visual on the man).

Why bring in the police? Your suggestion of it may make him go away. If not, you want the police to respond and deal with his behavior, which is disturbing the peace.

Importantly, if the police do get involved, it's best if their involvement was at your request. That way, in the report, you are listed as the "person reporting", which is better than being listed as the "suspect".

This hypothetical conversation could develop into a confrontation. Since you are armed, by definition it would be an armed confrontation. You want to do everything to convey to all that YOU are trying to de-escalate.

And you want people around you to see you as trying to de-escalate. Those people are called witnesses...and you want their statements to police (if it all goes to hell and turns into a physical altercation) to paint a picture of a law abiding, responsible citizen trying to de-escalate a situation he did not initiate.

So, to sum up, I would attempt to use verbal tactics to de-escalate. If that failed, I would request that police respond to keep the peace.
 
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A man walks up to you and says something like this:

"You're carrying a gun. I hate guns. A gun killed my son. What in the world do you think you're doing in here with that?"

What would be your response to this beginning of what could be a heated exchange?

...it is never good to engage in an argument on the merits of carrying a weapon. The man is obviously emotional - he believes his son was killed by a gun rather than a human being. He will not be reasoned with nor should one try.

Now, what would YOU do or say in this situation?

I highlighted these particular paragraphs to reveal what the best thing is to do:

Since he went out of his way to come over to my table and say "You're carrying a gun...I HATE guns." and "What do you think you're doing in here with that?" it's obvious to me that he's trying to start something (maybe, even so sly as to be trying to goad me into a fight so he could say to the police that I attacked him and/or threatened him while brandishing my gun.) His goal, of course, would be to try to get my CWP revoked so, in his mind, there would be 1 less "gun-toting" citizen out there.

The (small) price I pay for exercising my right to carry is I have to behave myself.

Me? I would be the bigger man and, as politely as I could, say as little as possible to the jerk.

My parents brought me up with this advice: "The less ya' say, the better."
 
I highlighted these particular paragraphs to reveal what the best thing is to do:

Since he went out of his way to come over to my table and say "You're carrying a gun...I HATE guns." and "What do you think you're doing in here with that?" it's obvious to me that he's trying to start something (maybe, even so sly as to be trying to goad me into a fight so he could say to the police that I attacked him and/or threatened him while brandishing my gun.) His goal, of course, would be to try to get my CWP revoked so, in his mind, there would be 1 less "gun-toting" citizen out there.
Last year I had a couple of people protesting a Planned Parenthood clinic try that with me. I was doing a lawyer friend a favor by photographing a small minority of the protesters who were illegally blocking the view of a busy street from a hidden driveway, creating a very real danger of a traffic accident. And have no doubt it was intentional, because they'd been warned of the danger and explicitly stated that causing a death in a traffic accident was worth what they were trying to accomplish.

First one came over and started taunting me. I met him with total silence. I just continued to read Hogg's book on machine guns, while taking pictures whenever they intentionally blocked the view. He went on and on and on, and I completely ignored him. He finally gave up and wandered off.

Next came an easily 500lb. morbidly obese psychotic who proceeded to verbally abuse and try to goad me into a fight. I just ignored him too until, frustrated, he waddled away. He videorecorded the whole thing with his phone and put it on YouTube. I'm sure he has no idea in the world what a lunatic he looks like. I was also voice recording him at the same time.

During a meeting with them (at which the troublemakers were expelled from the main body of protesters), my friend asked Jabba the Hut, "Do you REALLY think it's smart to try and start a fight with a guy wearing an NRA instructor's ballcap and reading a book on machine guns"? Jabba turned white and asked, "Was he carrying a GUN???" My friend just smiled a little smile.
 
Him - "What in the world do you think you're doing in here with that?"

Me - "Because an unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not easily defeated by fleeing from it."
 
Him - "What in the world do you think you're doing in here with that?"

Me - "Because an unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not easily defeated by fleeing from it."

Jeff Cooper is still alive and well from his writings! That's one of my favorite quotes from the gunner's guru!
 
I would attempt to politely end the conversation, saying as little as reasonably possible, involving the manager if necessary.

Law in VA is that you can't carry in any place that serves alcohol. Some places have laws against 'brandishing' as well; I am not sure what that consists of except that if you carry nobody should know about it.
As has been pointed out, since 1995 in VA you cannot conceal in a restaurant that serves alcohol. This leads to the common "Virginia Tuck," whereby a concealed carrier lifts his cover garment and tucks it behind his gun/holster while entering a restaurant, in order to comply with the law.

Since I often carry, and I strive to follow the law, I have open carried in restaurants many times. I've never had an issue, and the only comments I've received have been positive.

We've finally gotten this 1995 change reversed... as of 1 July 2010, we'll be able to conceal (or still open carry) in restaurants that serve alcohol.
 
In South Carolina you could be arrested for carrying in an eating establishment that serves alchohol... so I guess my response would be dependent upon whether I was violating the law.
 
I agree

Isn't the above statement a total contradiction?
If you're in a place that serves beer you probably shouldn't be armed in the first place.
And also...how can you "Be Safe" if you're armed & drinking? ~ :confused:

I agree! One doesn't deserve to have the right to carry, if one doesn't respect that right. I suggest changing that behavior immediately and save yourself some grief down the road, Skeeziks. If something happened and a variation of that story was on the 6 o'clock news, all of the law-abiding citizens that are CC people would be lumped into a category of being criminals with licenses to carry!!!! You represent all of us when you strap on your weapon, so make us proud, don't make us look like common criminals!!!
 
CCW showing............

I would thank the person for letting me know and tell them to have a good and safe day. If they persisted in a negative manner, I would inform them that I'm within my rights and to kindly leave me alone or face a call to the local police department for harassment. IF they continue to get stupid, inform the management that one of you will be leaving the establishment very soon and allow him the choice of who it is. Sprefix
 
Here in PA open carry is legal . but the issuing authorities (county sheriffs) strongly suggest that you do not carry open or concealed in places that serve alcohol. Ya might get a disturbing the peace citation , which should get tossed , but who wants the hassle?

Well , there is a small faction in PA that like to gather and go carrying openly in places they think will cause the most ruckus. I call 'em Open Carry Clowns.
 
Here in Alberta, a concealed carry permit is almost impossible to obtain.

However, I am a criminal defence lawyer and here's my advice.

If you have a CCW permit, keep it it readily at hand. And in the above situation, you should quickly produce the license and say,

" I am legally armed and I'm sorry that I allowed my firearm to show. Thank you for telling me because I would not want to alarm anyone"

And I would be as soft spoken and as non-threatening as possible.
In any situation that in any way involves a firearm, you want to be as soft-spoken and as polite as can be.

Now if the other party kicks up a fuss and is a *******, let him be the only one that behaves that way. You are in a restaurant and the other members of the public are all potential witnesses should the police ever be called.

And if you are in armed and in a restaurant you should also never consume any alcohol at all. Not even one sip of wine.

I would recommend that your behaviour be even more circumspect and even more polite than usual.

Mr. Squinty
 
Here in Alberta, a concealed carry permit is almost impossible to obtain.

However, I am a criminal defence lawyer and here's my advice.

If you have a CCW permit, keep it it readily at hand. And in the above situation, you should quickly produce the license and say,

" I am legally armed and I'm sorry that I allowed my firearm to show. Thank you for telling me because I would not want to alarm anyone"

That is the LAST thing you'd wanna do!

You never show your permit to anyone except the police; and even then, only if they demand that you produce it.
 
I really don't think that the Fl law is grey. Don't sit in or around the bar. Stay in the part that is obviously for the restaurant.

yashua
 
I would tell him that I am sorry about his son but that a gun did not kill his son, a bad guy did, and as long as there are bad guys you will be carrying the best method that you know of to win the battle against a bad guy.
 
"You're carrying a gun. I hate guns. A gun killed my son. What in the world do you think you're doing in here with that?"

You glance at your piece, and sure enough, your covering garment has hitched up, and the gun sure enough shows.

What would be your response to this beginning of what could be a heated exchange?

I'd say: "You're Italian! I hate Italians! Italians killed my son!"
Or: "You're Japanese! I hate Japanese! Japanese killed the US auto industry!"
Or: "That dog in the parking lot is licking its nuts!"
Or: "These cans! He hates these cans!"

There's all sorts of things you could say.
 
Forget all the cute answers. In the real world I would guess in 95 out of a 100 times the person that would ask would be a LEO and likely a gung ho one.
 
the gun didnt the bullet did. and i have its twin right here wanna see your son again?
 
sounds to me the guy that noticed the gun being visible is looking for trouble and should only have politly make the other guy aware of his weapon being visible and thats it, but the guy instead wanted the guy with the gun to know of his misfortune and felt his attitude was justifiable. What if the guy with the gun had the same cocky attitude? My answer to him would be something to the effect " I am sorry my gun was visible anddont mean to offend any one but I do have the right to carry and I am a CCW permit holder. Please forgive me and Thank you for pointing this to my attention. My condolences on your son sir. God bless you and try to enjoy the rest of your day.
 
"I'm sorry to hear about your son, and thanks for letting me know my gun was exposed. I do have a permit to carry, and didn't mean to cause a scene or disturb anyone's evening."

If he keeps it up, I'd probably say, "It's clear you and I don't share the same opinion on the issue of gun rights. This isn't the time or place to have that discussion, and I'd appreciate being left in peace. Thanks."

If he just flat out refused to allow me to de-escalate the situation and be left in peace to enjoy my meal, I would ask the waiter or waitress to get the maitre-de. Sorting out unruly patrons is their job, not mine.
 
If your concealed weapon is accidently exposed and noticed by someone then your not carrying your weapon properly concealed, your either using the wrong holster, the wrong weapon or both, oviously the cloth's that you are wearing should dictate what holster/weapon combination you should use, it's really too basic.
I have 6 different holster/weapon combinations to fit what I am wearing.
I could be wrong....:)
 

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