Your thoughts on handguns and ammo in general.

I won't quote the comments I disagree with but we'll discuss some of them here.

.380 ACP

.380 ACP has come a long way with better hollow point designs, as did 9mm 30 years ago and it's an acceptable self defense round, despite the lingering caliber snobbishness here in the US that decrees anything less than 9mm Luger isn't sufficient.

I have both a Kimber Micro and a Kimber Micro 9. The .380 ACP Micro has more tolerable recoil and more likely to encourage more practice. More importantly the Micro in .380 can be recovered faster under recoil allowing you to get more A zone hits in the same period of time than it's slightly larger Micro 9 sibling.


.32 ACP

.32 ACP hollow points have made much of the same progress as .380 hollow points. The 60 gr XTP will penetrate 12-13" and expand reliably provided you launch it from a 4" barrel at velocities of at least 1050 fps (and 1050-1100 fps is the norm with the Fiocchi load) - just like the 90 XTP in .380 ACP.

The 60 gr Hornady Critical Defense expands reliably as well at 4" velocities around 1000 fps and penetration is still 10-11".

Similarly, the Speer 60 gr Gold Dot gives pretty reliable expansion and 10" penetration when launched at 4" 1000 fps velocities.

Some self defense "experts" will say that isn't sufficient, but armed citizens are not shooting fleeing felons at odd aspect angles and are almost always going to to be shooting in a face to face aspect engagement where 10-11" is plenty.

When you further consider that about 95% of all self defense uses of a handgun don't involve actually firing the handgun, and that in the remaining 5% the assailant stops the assault as soon as he or she is shot about 50% of the time regardless of caliber .32 ACP is clearly good enough.

There's also some interesting data out there showing higher stop rates for .32 ACP than for 9mm, although there are several confounding variables in the mix, such as experience/skill of the .32 ACP shooter, use of FMJs in the 9mm, etc.

In the right hands, .32 ACP will get it done and when compared to the .380 ACP in the same model pistols it usually offers 1 more round in the magazine and will enable a well trained shooter to get more A zone hits in the same period of time than the same shooter and pistol in .380 ACP.

.32 ACP is also very recoil friendly and is a good choice for a female shooter with small hands or a geriatric shooter with arthritis who might not otherwise be interested in both carrying a firearm and practicing with it. In the Beretta Tomcat, it is also an ideal choice for someone with limited hand strength who can't rack a slide.

The caveats here are that even more so than the .380 ACP the .32 ACP is takes a big hit in shorter barrels and with a 2.75" or 3" .32 ACP don't bet on getting consistent expansion. But on the other hand when you don't, that failed to expand hollow point will act just like an FMJ.

From that perspective 71-73 gr FMJs or 73-75 grain hard cast bullets only make sense for a shooter with a shorter barrel and or who values penetration. A hot loaded 73 gr FMJ like the Fiocchi load at around 850 fps in a short barrel will still give 16-17" of penetration, and in a 4" barrel it will give 20-21" penetration in ballistic gel.


.25 ACP

Forget expansion and don't bother with anything other than a 50 gr FMJ. But that said, even a Beretta 950, 950B or 950BS will give you 12" penetration in ballistic gel. By the 95%/5%/50% defensive handgun use data above, it's still sufficient. Not anywhere near my choice, but it's a huge step up from nothing.


——

Some of the newer cartridges.

.327 Federal

It's a great short barrel revolver round and offers a nice step up from .38 Special. But at present the effective self defense hollow point options are limited, if you're into the FBI ballistic gel standards. Still, the 100 gr Gold Dot does pretty well in both 2" and 4" barrel lengths and the 85 gr Hydra Shok isn't far behind.

It needs more ammo development, but sadly I don't think it's going to stay around long enough in sufficient numbers to get it.


.30 Super Carry

I don't have any direct experience with it and have not done any ballistic testing with one, so I'll refrain from commenting other than I'm not seeing the niche it is supposed to fill.

Still, weird things happen. For example the .350 Legend doesn't do anything ballistics wise that the .38-55 and .375 Win can't do as well or slightly better. But it's very popular in Midwest states because Winchester lobbied hard for straight wall "pistol" case rules that favor it, and it's popular elsewhere because it fits in an AR-15 upper and lower.

——

Someone commented that we as Americans have a God given right to carry firearms. That's a dangerous belief to hold because it's just not true. Our 2A rights stem from a compromise made by the founding fathers to adopt the Bill of Rights as a necessary step in getting the Constitution ratified.

The 2A is a right given by humans that can be taken away by humans, and we need to be very careful never to forget that. We also need to understand that it's just an add on in a Constitution that was focused not on individual liberty but rather on creation of an environment conducive to commerce and acquisition of property.

That's never been more relevant than it is today with a legislative branch owned by big business and rich folks, an executive branch that is equally beholden to those same rich folks, and a judiciary that has become beholden to those same big money interests.
 
I have no need or desire to own many if not most of the available handgun cartridges being well served by only a select few. But that doesn't matter. Others have different needs or wants.

In the end, the buying public determines what the manufacturers produce. If enough people want a given cartridge it will be made. If not, it disappears. Th same thing applies to the guns that shoot them.
 
32 ACP is an under appreciated caliber today. As someone said, it was the European police caliber for 60-75 years. With the factory and hand loadings available today, I actually prefer it to .380. Less recoil and comparable, if not marginally better ballistics.
 
I'm always on the lookout for guns in calibers which I don't already have. Its enjoyable to learn about them.

During the Chicken Little Ammo Panic I once saw three lonely boxes of ammo on the otherwise empty expanse of shelves at Cabelas. Turned out to be Fiocchi .30 Luger! Yoink!

Another time Sportsman's had nothing but a box of .38/40s, which I also yoinked.

Early on, Cabelas had a stock of .357 Sig with a big sign over it: THIS WILL NOT WORK IN .357 REVOLVERS. NO RETURNS! It did, however, work just fine in my Sig P320.

I don't reload anymore. I never did really like it. When I find a box of ammo for one of my oddballs I buy it and shoot it. So far I've been able to shoot everything I own, including .41 Rimfire and most recently .351 WSL.

So no, I don't think ammo companies should stop loading low demand cartridges in favor of 9mm and .223.
 
Regarding the number of different calibers, I believe it is important to remember one size does not fit all needs.

Handguns, since coltle6920 requested we limit our discussion to those firearms, have continued to evolve usually focused on increasing the number on rounds that can be fired before a reload is necessary.

Then we have the focus on improving the accuracy.

An overlooked issue, I believe, is the focus on the rounds and the development of improved bullet design and function.

Whether it is self defense, combat, hunting, target shooting, and even plinking, the bullet is what gets the job done. The handgun is primarily the launch platform.

I believe if we understand the evolution of the bullet, we will be able to better answer his question.

I have handguns in most of the common calibers listed and would add the .357 Sig as one that might be considered in the "why" column but dang I sure do like it as my primary off duty sidearm.

I hope you find this helpful.
 
I'm a big believer of a single carry gun. I carried a 6906 from 1994 until 2021, not what I shoot best but the best compromise of accuracy, capacity and effectiveness. I carry a CZ P07 now, shoot it better but it is a large chunk of artillery. I have several "Centennial" .38/,357's and will carry one occasionally when dress precludes the CZ. I had a NAA .32acp which I really liked but my middle finger rested on the mag release button and dropped the mag almost every shot. A European heel release would solve that but a Seecamp is just too spendy for a gun I won't carry much. Joe
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Regarding stopping power in older calibers, along with the newer but still less-than-standard ones….

My own $.02 is that since I've long settled on my caliber choices and their platforms for saving my bacon, bump-in-the-night isn't a factor in my thought processes when I think about the "other" calibers.

Their appeal for me personally is that they give the opportunity to get to experience shooting some old and extremely well-made firearms that happen to have been chambered as standard in some of those cartridges. For example, if you want to experience shooting a Colt Vest Pocket or 1908, if there's no .32acp or .308 ammo, they're just lovely, albeit inert, pieces of industrial art from decades past. What a shame it would be to see all those examples of artistry and craftsmanship from a time no longer in existence to just rust away from apathy and practical redundancy.

Why, it would be a SIN, I say! [points index finger indignantly skyward]

I still mourn the knowledge that I'll never get to fire a WW1 Montenegran Rast & Gasser revolver and it's 12.5mm thumper cartridge for the exact reason I mentioned, just to use another example.

For other degrees of coolness on such things, Ian, aka Gun Jesus of Forgotten Firearms on YouTube has one of the coolest jobs that could be had IMO.
 
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This entire thread is not only ridiculous, but totally laughable.

The title Reads:

"Your thoughts on handguns and ammo in general"

Then the post proceeds to disregard every single sporting, competitive, and recreational use of handguns.
Everything is excluded except self defense/concealed carry, yet claims to discuss "handguns and ammo in general".

If that's your bag, then post in the "concealed carry & self defense" area of the forum, not the "Firearms & Knives-Other Brands" area.

And you talk about "catering to the new and uneducated"?????

Give me a break!!!!
 
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"Need" has nothing to do with it. To me this isn't much different than those who say nobody "needs" a semi-automatic rifle with a large magazine.

But to answer your question...no. It's not worth discussing.
 
Absolutely we have too much stuff but that's life, and someday I might want a 32.
 
I'm not necessarily talking about what was used 100yrs ago but rather what's available today. I'm not that familiar with long guns so can we stick to handguns?

On the upper end there seems to be more difference between calibers and their effectiveness. On the lower end it seems to be more of a marketing thing to sell more firearms.

Do we really need .25acp, .30super, .32acp and .380acp or are we just catering to the new and uneducated? Seems to me we'd have more ammo available if the brass wasn't used for what I consider unnecessary calibers.

Is this worth discussing?

What's wrong with lots of options?
 
I have a niece who thinks the maximum human population of the earth should be reduced to 500 million. Has no answer when I ask, "What 7.5 billion are you going to kill?"

Same with cartridges. If anyone's buying them, leave 'em alone ...

Neutron bombs?

RE: ammo. Pistol ammo isn't like rifle ammo. There are fewer new pistol rounds introduced than rifle IMHO.

Some will make it (.357 SIG, .40 S&W), some won't (.45GAP, 356TSW).

We'll see how .30 Super Carry fares.

But the aforementioned sub 9mm calibers will be around for a long, long time due to the amount of handguns out there in those calibers.
 
DUMB @@@ thread. Buy and use what you like / need. Don't criticize what others use or like. The reasons people have what they have is their bizness. It's all about opinion, and MY opinion trumps yours.
 
The Market determines what sells and doesn't. I am a Steel and Walnut man, if other people like aluminum, polymer, whatever frames, it's their money. I will not buy a New Model Ruger. Been shooting handguns for 55 years, have yet to own a 40 S&W or 10MM Auto.
 
FROM 6string...
This entire thread is not only ridiculous, but totally laughable.

The jist of my post is don't we have enough modern fiearms to fit everyones need whatever it might be? Why don't we just fill in the gaps between all calibers of ammo and make each firearm in small,medium and large? Then we can go even further and personally fit the grips and adjust the trigger pull for each person.

I shouldn't have had to mention every purpose that one has to own a certain firearm. I think that most posts here had a clue what I was aiming at.

I really thought that the purpose of this Forum was for those of us that don't have your "experience" to ask questions...To think outside the box...To ask why... without being torn apart by the likes of you and others.

I'm done here.
 
Do we really need .25acp, .30super, .32acp and .380acp or are we just catering to the new and uneducated? Seems to me we'd have more ammo available if the brass wasn't used for what I consider unnecessary calibers.

Is this worth discussing?

Everything along these lines is worth discussing.

I can't speak to .30 Super, which is new, but the zillions of guns out there in ACPs .25, .32, and .380 are VERY old and many, many, many educated and wise gun folks shoot small guns in those calibers.
 
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