You're Gettin' a J Frame....38 or 357...Your Pick??
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Kadonny
Member
Both very valid and great points. Now, can someone tell me where I can find the Speer Gold Dot short barrel ammo in .357 and .38 special? Damn it's hard to come by.
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I would guess by your state of residence that you probably have a nearby range that will rent various guns, or you may have fellow shooters that would let you try theirs. Someone will have a .38 or .357 J frame to try, and you can decide what is controllable for you. For some it will be a steel J Magnum with .38 wadcutters, and apparently for others .357s in an AirLite is no big deal 
. Only you can decide what works for you.
. Only you can decide what works for you.I've found the Speer SB ammo at Gander Mountain 3 out of the last 4 times I've been there. You have a hard time finding it online, but it's been available in store most times.
It "ain't cheap", but it's been available in my area.
It "ain't cheap", but it's been available in my area.
sac-gunslinger
Member
My choice: 642-1 (no lock) loaded with Buffalo Bore load 20C (158 HP @ 850 fps, basically the FBI load at standard operating pressure). "Just enough," gets the job done.
My hands have been operated on four times, they cannot take the punishment of higher pressure loads. The plus of this load is rapid recovery for follow-up shots that, hopefully, I will never have to make.
My hands have been operated on four times, they cannot take the punishment of higher pressure loads. The plus of this load is rapid recovery for follow-up shots that, hopefully, I will never have to make.
snowman.45
Member
I currently have a 340 Sc to which I have added a XS front sight, and a 640 .357 mag. I used to carry a 60 as an off-duty and back-up piece back in the 70s and 80s. Wish I still had one. I carry the Buffalo Bore 158 +p LSWCHP at 1000 fps. I'll occasionally carry the Gold Dot 135 gr. JHP SB in .357 mag, also. However, I find the Buffalo Bore to be a great round.
As I'm going to retire next summer, I'll likely be carrying my J-frames much more often. As a result, I'm planning on getting a 340 M&P. It's hard to beat a J-frame.
As I'm going to retire next summer, I'll likely be carrying my J-frames much more often. As a result, I'm planning on getting a 340 M&P. It's hard to beat a J-frame.
hotrod150
Member
For an off-the-rack concealed-carry gun, it's tough to beat a 442 or 642. Plenty of them available and very reasonably priced. I recently I found a great deal on a (barely) used 442-2 so I bought it. It came with some "etc" but the bottom line is I ended up having only about $300 in the gun. I previously owned one which I paid about the same amount for, which I sold to a buddy. If I was you, I'd keep an eye out for something like this-- if it turns out you don't care for it you can sell it off without losing any money. In some ways, it makes more sense as an EDC piece than my vintage bobbed Chiefs.
Personally I'm not interested in shooting anything more than 38+P out of a 2" j-frame. I used to have a 4" M19 and wasn't too wild about shooting full-house 357's out of it-- recoil wasn't too bad but the muzzle blast was terrible.
Personally I'm not interested in shooting anything more than 38+P out of a 2" j-frame. I used to have a 4" M19 and wasn't too wild about shooting full-house 357's out of it-- recoil wasn't too bad but the muzzle blast was terrible.
WOW!!
What a WEALTH of great info to chew on. LOTS of info in here to help all kinds of people other than me. THANK YOU ALL for posting all this valuable info. It'll take me a while to digest it all though.
I wish there were a range where a bunch of us could meet and try each others pistols. That would be awesome as I have never had a chance to shoot a J frame. My range has a couple for rent and am thinking of trying that.
I like the idea of being able to shoot 357 and 38 out of the same piece. Like others mentioned though, whenever I see clips of armed confrontations or read about them, there is almost always more than 1 shot fired. I think the 357 right off the bat would make it pretty difficult to follow up quickly if you missed, which would be highly likely on the first shot. Whatever one I did choose it would mandate a LOT of practice with it to make sure I was good enough to carry it.
The only thing that gives me pause on the J frames is that this summer I went to the NRA show in Houston and was amazed at some of the stuff I was able to handle. One of the most impressive handguns I have ever handled is that new Springfield XDs in 9mm and 45acp. If you have seen or held one you know what I am talking about. It is a mighty impressive candidate for a CCW piece. Hard to argue with the ease of reloading the 45ACP and 9mm in a semi against a 5 shot J.
But I find myself going back to the J for the simple reason that there is no such thing as a misfire or jam in a J. You just keep pulling the trigger till the bad guy stops or you're out. I believe in a situation like that you need to operate on muscle memory and NOT stuff you THINK you know or are gonna do or something a guy said to you in a class somewhere.
So many great pieces to choose from. I think I'm gonna go over to Gander Mountain and look over their collection of J frames. They have quite a bit in the cases to look at. Not going to buy yet, just look. I need to take my class first.
Lastly, I am also stunned at how expensive S&W revolvers have become. I have a 65-3 with a 3 inch that is a police trade in that is in excellent shape with factory wood grips. It's a great piece that I got for my DAD and paid $250 for about 8 years ago. Today they're going for $600!! CRAZY STUFF. Seems like all the S&W revolvers are commanding premiums these days.
Thanks again everyone.
Nalajr
What a WEALTH of great info to chew on. LOTS of info in here to help all kinds of people other than me. THANK YOU ALL for posting all this valuable info. It'll take me a while to digest it all though.
I wish there were a range where a bunch of us could meet and try each others pistols. That would be awesome as I have never had a chance to shoot a J frame. My range has a couple for rent and am thinking of trying that.
I like the idea of being able to shoot 357 and 38 out of the same piece. Like others mentioned though, whenever I see clips of armed confrontations or read about them, there is almost always more than 1 shot fired. I think the 357 right off the bat would make it pretty difficult to follow up quickly if you missed, which would be highly likely on the first shot. Whatever one I did choose it would mandate a LOT of practice with it to make sure I was good enough to carry it.
The only thing that gives me pause on the J frames is that this summer I went to the NRA show in Houston and was amazed at some of the stuff I was able to handle. One of the most impressive handguns I have ever handled is that new Springfield XDs in 9mm and 45acp. If you have seen or held one you know what I am talking about. It is a mighty impressive candidate for a CCW piece. Hard to argue with the ease of reloading the 45ACP and 9mm in a semi against a 5 shot J.
But I find myself going back to the J for the simple reason that there is no such thing as a misfire or jam in a J. You just keep pulling the trigger till the bad guy stops or you're out. I believe in a situation like that you need to operate on muscle memory and NOT stuff you THINK you know or are gonna do or something a guy said to you in a class somewhere.
So many great pieces to choose from. I think I'm gonna go over to Gander Mountain and look over their collection of J frames. They have quite a bit in the cases to look at. Not going to buy yet, just look. I need to take my class first.
Lastly, I am also stunned at how expensive S&W revolvers have become. I have a 65-3 with a 3 inch that is a police trade in that is in excellent shape with factory wood grips. It's a great piece that I got for my DAD and paid $250 for about 8 years ago. Today they're going for $600!! CRAZY STUFF. Seems like all the S&W revolvers are commanding premiums these days.
Thanks again everyone.
Nalajr
3rdRRU_PhuBai
Member
640-1...........
riverrat38
US Veteran
I use a M640-1 Pro for OWB carry in a Lobo Pancake holster.
It is currently loaded with plus P Speer SB, but I want to try the same in Magnum. I have some of the bullets so I will load to light Magnum to compare. This is also my favorite range gun. I like small frame revolvers. I don't miss single action ability. I thought I might, but I don't. For slow shooting, I can stop at lockup, check aim and fire as well as I do with SA revolvers. I do this off of a rest to evaluate ammo. My range load is a 125 gr plated FP over 7.2 gr A#5 in a Magnum case. I plan to work up into low Magnum levels. One of the advantages of the Magnum versions is plenty of headroom to hand load at plus P plus levels, or where ever. The gun can take whatever my 70 year old hands can deal with. I tried a couple of 158 gr XTP's with a starting load of A#9, and won't likely go there again. I like the extra weight of the Magnum J frames for holster carry. I don't notice the difference and it shots with less recoil. But, I also have a M442 for pocket carry in a Mika holster, which I currently carry with Double Tap 148 gr hardcast WC's. These are about 100 FPS faster than the target WC's. I don't want HP ammo at standard pressure, since, if it expands, I don't expect to get the penetration that I want. I wouldn't give up penetration for expansion until I had at least 12 inches, and I don't expect that without at least plus P pressures. The Speer plus P barely makes 12 inches. I have found these to be too stout for the 14 oz revolver. Thus, the WC's.
Best,
Rick
It is currently loaded with plus P Speer SB, but I want to try the same in Magnum. I have some of the bullets so I will load to light Magnum to compare. This is also my favorite range gun. I like small frame revolvers. I don't miss single action ability. I thought I might, but I don't. For slow shooting, I can stop at lockup, check aim and fire as well as I do with SA revolvers. I do this off of a rest to evaluate ammo. My range load is a 125 gr plated FP over 7.2 gr A#5 in a Magnum case. I plan to work up into low Magnum levels. One of the advantages of the Magnum versions is plenty of headroom to hand load at plus P plus levels, or where ever. The gun can take whatever my 70 year old hands can deal with. I tried a couple of 158 gr XTP's with a starting load of A#9, and won't likely go there again. I like the extra weight of the Magnum J frames for holster carry. I don't notice the difference and it shots with less recoil. But, I also have a M442 for pocket carry in a Mika holster, which I currently carry with Double Tap 148 gr hardcast WC's. These are about 100 FPS faster than the target WC's. I don't want HP ammo at standard pressure, since, if it expands, I don't expect to get the penetration that I want. I wouldn't give up penetration for expansion until I had at least 12 inches, and I don't expect that without at least plus P pressures. The Speer plus P barely makes 12 inches. I have found these to be too stout for the 14 oz revolver. Thus, the WC's.
Best,
Rick
WOW!!
What a WEALTH of great info to chew on. LOTS of info in here to help all kinds of people other than me. THANK YOU ALL for posting all this valuable info. It'll take me a while to digest it all though.
I wish there were a range where a bunch of us could meet and try each others pistols. That would be awesome as I have never had a chance to shoot a J frame. My range has a couple for rent and am thinking of trying that.
I like the idea of being able to shoot 357 and 38 out of the same piece. Like others mentioned though, whenever I see clips of armed confrontations or read about them, there is almost always more than 1 shot fired. I think the 357 right off the bat would make it pretty difficult to follow up quickly if you missed, which would be highly likely on the first shot. Whatever one I did choose it would mandate a LOT of practice with it to make sure I was good enough to carry it.
The only thing that gives me pause on the J frames is that this summer I went to the NRA show in Houston and was amazed at some of the stuff I was able to handle. One of the most impressive handguns I have ever handled is that new Springfield XDs in 9mm and 45acp. If you have seen or held one you know what I am talking about. It is a mighty impressive candidate for a CCW piece. Hard to argue with the ease of reloading the 45ACP and 9mm in a semi against a 5 shot J.
But I find myself going back to the J for the simple reason that there is no such thing as a misfire or jam in a J. You just keep pulling the trigger till the bad guy stops or you're out. I believe in a situation like that you need to operate on muscle memory and NOT stuff you THINK you know or are gonna do or something a guy said to you in a class somewhere.
So many great pieces to choose from. I think I'm gonna go over to Gander Mountain and look over their collection of J frames. They have quite a bit in the cases to look at. Not going to buy yet, just look. I need to take my class first.
Lastly, I am also stunned at how expensive S&W revolvers have become. I have a 65-3 with a 3 inch that is a police trade in that is in excellent shape with factory wood grips. It's a great piece that I got for my DAD and paid $250 for about 8 years ago. Today they're going for $600!! CRAZY STUFF. Seems like all the S&W revolvers are commanding premiums these days.
Thanks again everyone.
Nalajr
The good news is if you get an xds and a j frame you will have something to carry while you wait on the xd to be returned due to recall.
old&slow
Member
? really ? ( edit: sorry,, may have misunderstood the statement see post #58 )
Last edited:
mickeyblueyes
Member
I am going to add one more post and I want to ask that you follow up and understand what I am saying.
When you have a small revolver with a short barrel.In this case a 38/357
** The length of the barrel will determine your terminal velocity.
You can not get ANY MORE power out of a 357 bullet in a snub nose revolver than you can a 38 38+P. The differences in power begin when you go to longer barrels,4 /6 /8 inch is where a 357 shines. Put a 357 load in a Henry rifle and look at the statistics. Your jaw would drop.
Most of the power of the bullet is coming out the end of the barrel with a snub nose. With that bit of information,I would say get the 38+P and save the money for ammo or charity.
When you have a small revolver with a short barrel.In this case a 38/357
** The length of the barrel will determine your terminal velocity.
You can not get ANY MORE power out of a 357 bullet in a snub nose revolver than you can a 38 38+P. The differences in power begin when you go to longer barrels,4 /6 /8 inch is where a 357 shines. Put a 357 load in a Henry rifle and look at the statistics. Your jaw would drop.
Most of the power of the bullet is coming out the end of the barrel with a snub nose. With that bit of information,I would say get the 38+P and save the money for ammo or charity.
36general
Member
I took that as he meant there is a lot of helpful info for himself as well as others. But who knows? I've been wrong once or twice before.
old&slow
Member
I took that as he meant there is a lot of helpful info for himself as well as others. But who knows? I've been wrong once or twice before.
Me too ..
Guess I got my morning excerise jumping to conclusions,, sorry ,,
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Kadonny
Member
Stephen A. Camps opinion on the subject seems to refute that.
New Page 1
Will a .357 load get the same velocity in a snub than in a longer barrel gun? No, but most .357 loads will generate more velocity than a standard .38 and +p loads even out of a snub. Is it enough difference in velocity to make it worth the extra recoil? Now that's the main question.
vito
US Veteran
I went through some of the same thought processes as the OP a few years ago, and settled on a 640. I find shooting 357mag in this gun almost intolerable; the recoil is such that getting off a second, accurate shot is beyond my ability. In fact, shooting regular .38's is somewhat unpleasant. I was at the range recently and after shooting wadcutter 38's, I switched to my Ruger P97 and fired 45acp's which felt like shooting a 22 compared to the revolver.
Also, the 640 is heavy for pocket carry. Whether it is TOO heavy is a personal assessment. I find I reach for my little Ruger LCP when pocket carrying, and limit the 640 to IWB. But in fairness, I only get to carry occasionally, when I am out of Illinois (at least until 2014 when I hope to get my IL license).
I have been thinking about trading in the 640 for a 442, or just buying a 442 or 438 but have not acted on this yet.
Also, the 640 is heavy for pocket carry. Whether it is TOO heavy is a personal assessment. I find I reach for my little Ruger LCP when pocket carrying, and limit the 640 to IWB. But in fairness, I only get to carry occasionally, when I am out of Illinois (at least until 2014 when I hope to get my IL license).
I have been thinking about trading in the 640 for a 442, or just buying a 442 or 438 but have not acted on this yet.
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