I carried a titanium 10 ounce j-frame for years. Advancing age coupled with arthritic hands made me finally trade them. I could no longer fire 15 aimed shots without the pain making me flinch. One must know ones limitations. Have gone back to carrying my airweights and steel frame j-frames. Bullet placement and tactics are more important than caliber.
You're Gettin' a J Frame....38 or 357...Your Pick??
- Thread starter Nalapombu
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I would do exactly what I did: Buy the lightest non-lock internal hammer/DAO/Centennial I could afford. If that is a 442, perfect. If I could afford a 340, then I would buy that. Personally I choose the Gold Dot 135 grain +P .38 Special.
As for the Bodyguard models? Another place to gather crud and cause a malfunction, and a great way to practice wrong (single action) and wind up in a bad place. One post above already mentioned how practice ended up single action. SA capability on a J-frame is bad enough, but try to imagine decocking a Bodyguard in the middle of the night, after waking up, getting an adrenaline dump, and then NOT wanting to shoot. YMMV.
As for the Bodyguard models? Another place to gather crud and cause a malfunction, and a great way to practice wrong (single action) and wind up in a bad place. One post above already mentioned how practice ended up single action. SA capability on a J-frame is bad enough, but try to imagine decocking a Bodyguard in the middle of the night, after waking up, getting an adrenaline dump, and then NOT wanting to shoot. YMMV.
vito
US Veteran
To BaaBaa: you must be one tough lady! Even with 38 special I find that the 640 has significant recoil. With 357 mag rounds it is downright painful (for me). I still prefer having a stainless steel j-frame, and the 640 seems to be a great carry weapon. But if you plan on carrying in a pocket holster, you might find the 640 a bit heavy at 23 ounces. I recently bought a Remora IWB holster for the 640 and it is very easy to carry concealed.
Budnjax
Absent Comrade
If you are going to have a J frame.....
and weight is a factor.....I like the 38 Bodyguard with laser or the 438....both 38 Specials with Spegel bootgrips....if you are able to handle 357 loads, the Pro Series 640-1 is primo. Actually, I prefer the old Colt D frame guns over any J frame...the Agents, Cobra and Dick Specials were all 6 shot and overall slightly larger and easier to shoot accurately, IMHO....their leaf springs as opposed to the S&W coil mainsprings gave them (generally) much smoother trigger pulls than unmodified J frames. If you could find a stainless Colt Magnum Carry 357 you might have the ultimate small carry revolver....
and weight is a factor.....I like the 38 Bodyguard with laser or the 438....both 38 Specials with Spegel bootgrips....if you are able to handle 357 loads, the Pro Series 640-1 is primo. Actually, I prefer the old Colt D frame guns over any J frame...the Agents, Cobra and Dick Specials were all 6 shot and overall slightly larger and easier to shoot accurately, IMHO....their leaf springs as opposed to the S&W coil mainsprings gave them (generally) much smoother trigger pulls than unmodified J frames. If you could find a stainless Colt Magnum Carry 357 you might have the ultimate small carry revolver....
Maybe the grips matter? I have the rounded ones that came with it, sort of rubbery. Seriously, it's not bad at all and I'm a wimp for recoil with other firearms.
5kwkdw3
Member
I've owned a bunch of J frames over the years ever since I started some 25 years ago with an FFL and trying to get one that my wife liked and could handle. At that time I only had the choice of 38 special as Smith had not yet come out with their 357 J frame. I have a thing for Stainless steel so for me it was 60's, 640's, and 649's and out of the lot I'd personally go with the 649. Nothing to snag out of the pocket, and quick to get off a shot yet still being able to cock and squeeze the trigger at the range. All of the DAO's I've owned have always had a nasty trigger pull and have a lot of stacking, creep and overtravel. Sure some were better than others, but the 649 took the standard Wolff spring kit and then shot like a dream. Smithy.
CTI1USNRET
Member
Choose a gun that's fun to shoot. Whether it's a 38 or a 357 doesn't matter. Ultra-light revolvers of either caliber are not fun. I have three revolvers: a Ruger LCR 38 Spl snubbie (hurts, hard to control in rapid fire, not fun at all), a steel frame Taurus 85 38 Spl snubbie (better, smaller groups in rapid fire), and a 4" L-frame S&W Model 581 .357 Mag (a joy to shoot with 38 Spls, very small groups in rapid fire). I carry them concealed in Mernickle PS6DA holsters.
Frankly, you can't beat a S&W Model 10 4" heavy barrel 38 Spl. I had one many years ago and wish I still had it. The other guns mentioned above were a learning experience. They taught me I should have kept the Model 10.
Frankly, you can't beat a S&W Model 10 4" heavy barrel 38 Spl. I had one many years ago and wish I still had it. The other guns mentioned above were a learning experience. They taught me I should have kept the Model 10.
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I picked up a S&W Model 19-2 2" snub 357 recently for $425 which was a steal considering it was like new condition. It still fits in my pocket fine with a pocket holster even being a K-Frame although I had to change which holster I used because the adjustable sights were getting snagged on my Uncle Mikes pocket holster. I prefer a heavier snub nose as the air weights are not very accurate when you try to shoot a 38+p or 357 load. I know they're more of a "belly" gun for many but I prefer to be able to shoot at least 15 yards accurately with a 357 snub nose and that's not going to happen very easily with an airweight. I don't mind the extra weight of a steel frame and have more confidence in their durability than I do with an Aluminum alloy frame. If I was going to go with a J-frame then I'd look for an older S&W Model 49 like I used to have until I moved on to 357 revolvers.
vito
US Veteran
Maybe grips do make a big difference. I had the original black rubber grips on my 640 until I changed to Crimson Trace laser grips. But as I recall, the recoil with the 640 was significant, even with 38 special. On the other hand, my K-frame 19-3 with a 4 inch barrel has almost no recoil at all with 38's, and a tolerable amount with 357magnum, but it is too large for concealed carry.
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I have a Model 60. I also shoot 38 +P. When I carry it versus my Sig 938 SAS I carry it loaded with Hornady CD 357 Mag rounds 125gr. As somebody mentioned they aren't meant to plink with and practicing with that round won't find you putting a 100 rounds down range but you'll still need to practice with the round you plan to shoot.
When my wife shoots it she uses Hornady CD Lite 38 Special +P which is 90gr but still 1200fps at the muzzle. She can't stand shooting the 357 round.
When my wife shoots it she uses Hornady CD Lite 38 Special +P which is 90gr but still 1200fps at the muzzle. She can't stand shooting the 357 round.
Kframerbluvr
Member
Excellent point-I had never considered the longevity aspect; just thinking of the recoil from shooting .357 loads in a flyweight revolver has turned me off from them until now. If I could only find a reasonably priced no lock 340 and the cash to work a deal...
Kframerbluvr
Member
In my world, J frames are pocket and deep concealment weapons, not belt guns. A Glock 23 or 27 or M10 4" goes there for me. My new 442 goes in the right front pants pocket along with at least one speed strip. The M60 that just came back from the armorer will work its way into the rotation, probably in an old Active Arms shoulder rig I found in the attic that someone gave me years ago. These two "J"s may work in cold weather when buttoned up in a heavy coat: 442 in coat pocket and M60 in shoulder rig accessible by "knifing" the shooting hand between the buttons to extract the weapon..Might be a good experiment..
How about a Model 640 Pro Series
I recently added a Model 640 Pro Series to my snubbie collection. I am impressed with a number of things about this gun: No lawyer lock; 3-dot tritium sights; can use moon clips; feels really good shooting Hornady .357 Magnum 125 gr Critical Defense rounds - it's easy to control and shoot accurately. Shortly, it will become my primary carry gun, my back-up being a Model 642. Both of those snubbies have Crimson Trace lasergrips, with the 640 getting the full size, and the 642 getting the boot grip. I can drop the 642 into my pants pocket, even for summer carry. Like one previous poster, I own a bunch of snubbies, but these two are my current favorites for daily carry. YMMV FWIW
I recently added a Model 640 Pro Series to my snubbie collection. I am impressed with a number of things about this gun: No lawyer lock; 3-dot tritium sights; can use moon clips; feels really good shooting Hornady .357 Magnum 125 gr Critical Defense rounds - it's easy to control and shoot accurately. Shortly, it will become my primary carry gun, my back-up being a Model 642. Both of those snubbies have Crimson Trace lasergrips, with the 640 getting the full size, and the 642 getting the boot grip. I can drop the 642 into my pants pocket, even for summer carry. Like one previous poster, I own a bunch of snubbies, but these two are my current favorites for daily carry. YMMV FWIW
Freedomfirst
Member
The S&W J-frame 340 M&P snubbie is for close up work, so a .357 Magnum round is not necessary IMO. The recoil is fierce and it numbs my hand for a second shot. The most i can handle out of mine is a Speer Gold Dot Short barrel .38+P 135gr JHP. I believe that round will do the intended job so I don't see the need for anything more powerful in an everyday carry snubbie.
rehbob50
I've had an old model 60 for some time. It is the original ss model. I bought an airweight for my wife to carry. I recently found a model 696 for CCW. It might be heavier but I'm looking for knockdown. I carry it whenever I'm out in the woods. We have a lot of wolves around here and I feel the 44 special works for both kinds of preditors. If you're in a jam and need someting reliable and deadly I don't think your foe will care if he is eliminated with a .38 or a .357. He will be eliminated. That's what we care about.
I've had an old model 60 for some time. It is the original ss model. I bought an airweight for my wife to carry. I recently found a model 696 for CCW. It might be heavier but I'm looking for knockdown. I carry it whenever I'm out in the woods. We have a lot of wolves around here and I feel the 44 special works for both kinds of preditors. If you're in a jam and need someting reliable and deadly I don't think your foe will care if he is eliminated with a .38 or a .357. He will be eliminated. That's what we care about.
Cruise
US Veteran
I have a Model 60 Pro series with a 3 inch bbl. It is one fine shooter. I bought a Rossi M-92 lever to go with it and use the 60 for 38 and the M-92 for .357 Mag ammo.
Opinions are like, uh, you know. Anyway, I went with the 340PD. With it you can always step down in power. As it is, .357 is fine. Yea, it kicks but if you need it in a bad situation you can't beat it. I had a new barrel installed and ported so that took some of the snappiness out of it and you only lose about 3% in velocity. Had some trigger work done and it has been my edc for about a year now. Trust me, if your gun is too heavy, you won't carry it. I've seen this too many times. I hardly know this one is in pocket. 
I did just pick up a 642-1 and it's my wife's edc. She can handle the +P guys. I will say she can shoot the .357 but prefers the .38+P.
I did just pick up a 642-1 and it's my wife's edc. She can handle the +P guys. I will say she can shoot the .357 but prefers the .38+P.Attachments
I chose the M638 because I like the idea of having single action if needed (without an exposed hammer) and .38+p is all I'd want in a lw J frame.
I added Hogue cocobolo grips and a little red paint on the front sight.
I added Hogue cocobolo grips and a little red paint on the front sight.
djenk201
Member
Well you have indeed made a great pick for a carry or back up weapon. I carried one some 32 years as a back-up and on two occasions it proved its worth. As for which one, I could go with the 357 as its capable of shooting everything of course from the 38 to the +p's and the mags. I went with the full steel type frames simply for the weight when using the mags, as you can use the help during that recoil handling session. I will say the only disadvantage to them, and the older I got the more important it got, was the fixed rear sight. It is obviously little more difficult to pick up on because of the small fixed nature. I will end it by saying S&W did indeed take care of that some with the new model 640 Pro series. ( Maybe the 642 pro, sorry just can't remember now) It is the same size and all plus it comes with Trijicon night sights with the rear dovetailed style, higher profile as on other larger revolvers. Great weapon. ( The Ruger SP 101 is fine piece too) Good Luck and make certain to get plenty of trigger time with whichever you wind up with.
My personal is a 940 with state pressure 115 grain. Nyclads, but that's me. You need to find a range that will be let you rent a few J's and see what works for you.
I'd recommend putting a paper plate on a target and backing off about five yards. Starting with the .357, see how fast you can put all five rounds inside the plate. If it seems like it's taking a long time, it probably is, and you should think about trying the .38.
Don't forget there's also .327 mag, .22 mag, etc. Carry what you can shoot accurately enough to save your own life.
I'd recommend putting a paper plate on a target and backing off about five yards. Starting with the .357, see how fast you can put all five rounds inside the plate. If it seems like it's taking a long time, it probably is, and you should think about trying the .38.
Don't forget there's also .327 mag, .22 mag, etc. Carry what you can shoot accurately enough to save your own life.
As already said 340pd. The lightest and is my favorite but not cheap. I can handle and have fired 14 rounds of the 357 gdsb but prefer 38 special hp. It's easier to get back on target, less flash, and more accurate for me. After 14 rounds of the 357 I was ready to go back to the 38 special. I found my 357 dgsb on gunbroker.
which S&W snub?
Which snubbie Smith and Wesson? I've had 38 special J frames forever. Now I have 442w.crimson trace grips, original 640 w. crimson trace grips and a new 640 pro in 357, Also have the Ruger SP101 in 357. anyone of them with serve you well. I like the ;357 chambering ;but usually carry 135 speer gold dots in all of them. If in the woods I carry the Ruger with 158gr Federal H.P. Also love the three inch K frames if you can find one Have a 3 65, 3" 66 and 3" carry comp. love them all but would sell the others and keep the 65 for carrying concealed. Sgt bubba
Which snubbie Smith and Wesson? I've had 38 special J frames forever. Now I have 442w.crimson trace grips, original 640 w. crimson trace grips and a new 640 pro in 357, Also have the Ruger SP101 in 357. anyone of them with serve you well. I like the ;357 chambering ;but usually carry 135 speer gold dots in all of them. If in the woods I carry the Ruger with 158gr Federal H.P. Also love the three inch K frames if you can find one Have a 3 65, 3" 66 and 3" carry comp. love them all but would sell the others and keep the 65 for carrying concealed. Sgt bubba
2 J's
I recently got my hands on a 640 Pro Series which I think is great. The tritium sights really makes for some good accurate shooting. Being a little heaver it handles +P and magnum rounds real well. The moon clips work real well also.
I have had a 340 PD for almost 10 years. I like it for pocket carry and as a New York Reload for my 640. The Crimson Trace Laser Grips and the 24/7 XS sights set it off but its not one you can really enjoy running mags through.
I recently got my hands on a 640 Pro Series which I think is great. The tritium sights really makes for some good accurate shooting. Being a little heaver it handles +P and magnum rounds real well. The moon clips work real well also.
I have had a 340 PD for almost 10 years. I like it for pocket carry and as a New York Reload for my 640. The Crimson Trace Laser Grips and the 24/7 XS sights set it off but its not one you can really enjoy running mags through.
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J Frame consideration
Having started my LEO career with revolvers in the 70's I always enjoyed their no nonsense straight forward ease of use.
Then for many years I grew accustomed to the semi-autos and felt very comfortable with them .
Upon retirement and wanting to have a light (must be concealed) weapon the glock just didn't cut it.
Went back to a revolver and chose the 638 with Critical Defense 38 +P. Have a very comfortable Galco ankle rig which is not noticeable.
Having started my LEO career with revolvers in the 70's I always enjoyed their no nonsense straight forward ease of use.
Then for many years I grew accustomed to the semi-autos and felt very comfortable with them .
Upon retirement and wanting to have a light (must be concealed) weapon the glock just didn't cut it.
Went back to a revolver and chose the 638 with Critical Defense 38 +P. Have a very comfortable Galco ankle rig which is not noticeable.
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J Frame Recommendation
Wow. Lots of good information to digest! Thanks to all who contributed their hard won knowledge and experience. Especially liked the pictures of the nuclear fireball from the hot ammo!
I have a Model 60 and a Model 37. They are both superb sidearms in .38 special and two inch barrel configurations. However, I am still looking for a .357 Model 60 with three inch barrel and adjustable sights. The longer barrel gives you a lot more muzzle velocity and kinetic energy, plus a longer sighting plane. The adjustable sights are just superior to the little slot and spot on the standard snubs. This is an important factor with older eyes. One other element to consider is the stocks. As an older guy with mild arthritis, I find the Pachmayr Compac model outstanding. The stocks fit my large hands and help absorb the pain of practice.
Wow. Lots of good information to digest! Thanks to all who contributed their hard won knowledge and experience. Especially liked the pictures of the nuclear fireball from the hot ammo!
I have a Model 60 and a Model 37. They are both superb sidearms in .38 special and two inch barrel configurations. However, I am still looking for a .357 Model 60 with three inch barrel and adjustable sights. The longer barrel gives you a lot more muzzle velocity and kinetic energy, plus a longer sighting plane. The adjustable sights are just superior to the little slot and spot on the standard snubs. This is an important factor with older eyes. One other element to consider is the stocks. As an older guy with mild arthritis, I find the Pachmayr Compac model outstanding. The stocks fit my large hands and help absorb the pain of practice.
hugostiglitz
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J frame suggestion
I know it's controversial, but I had my 340PD ported (Magna port). With 357 ammo, recoil is noticeably reduced and my follow up shots are more accurate. There is a small reduction in muzzle velocity and the increased flash is not a problem for me even in low light conditions.
I also added Pachmayr decelerator grips...slightly longer but more comfortable, especially if you have large hands.
I know it's controversial, but I had my 340PD ported (Magna port). With 357 ammo, recoil is noticeably reduced and my follow up shots are more accurate. There is a small reduction in muzzle velocity and the increased flash is not a problem for me even in low light conditions.
I also added Pachmayr decelerator grips...slightly longer but more comfortable, especially if you have large hands.
I was looking at an LCP 380 for pocket carry and was introduced to the J-frame - I never looked back.
I chose the 638 w/ CT grips because I wanted DA/SA, a gun I could carry all the time, and one I could pull and fire from the hip as necessary (hence the laser grips).
I sort of wish I had gone .357, but when I start to question the power of that .38+P, I run a few cylinders and it brings me back to reality.
The 38 is enough for me, also I figure if cops stayed alive and caught the bad guy using a .38 for over 80 years, well ...
I chose the 638 w/ CT grips because I wanted DA/SA, a gun I could carry all the time, and one I could pull and fire from the hip as necessary (hence the laser grips).
I sort of wish I had gone .357, but when I start to question the power of that .38+P, I run a few cylinders and it brings me back to reality.
The 38 is enough for me, also I figure if cops stayed alive and caught the bad guy using a .38 for over 80 years, well ...
Like everything, your preferences matter and we can't answer that for you. But since you asked, you obviously want to know what our preferences are.
I bought a 640-1 which is an older model .357 magnum shrouded hammer J-frame. The shrouded hammer is definitely better for concealment, especially in an ankle holster where a hammer spur can catch on clothing. But you lose the single action pull. This can be mitigated by replacing the rebound spring and smoothing the surfaces around the rebound slide and hammer. This is not hard to do yourself, but if you mess it up, you can easily destroy the pistol. I would never recommend using a lighter mainspring because this will increase the chances of a light primer strike. An extended firing pin doesn't always solve this problem.
I have carried it in an ankle holster, and it is heavy enough to change the way you walk. It will also noticeably distort the shape of a jacket pocket. It is fairly comfortable in an IWB holster, but with the large cylinder it will never be as comfortable as a semi-auto.
As with any J-frame, your accuracy is limited by the short sight axis and poor sights. But with practice you will easily be able to hit a man in the chest at 7-10 yards. I have Crimson Trace grips on mine, but I never recommend relying on a laser for a handgun. It is there for times when my ability to aim through the sights is compromised.
I bought the .357 magnum precisely because it can fire .357 magnum, .38 special, and .38 special +P. The extra weight and strength of the gun is desirable for durability. Frankly, firing .357 magnum rounds out of this pistol is awful. The first round stings, the second round hurts, and the third round really hurts. If you use it at night against an attacker, you will be deaf and blind after the first shot although not as bad off as the poor sucker on the other end of this thing.
But I have the choice to load it with three different types of rounds. Right now it is loaded with .38 special +P. If I found myself out of ammo and the first box I found was .357, I won't be out of luck. For me, versatility in ammo is a HIGH priority. For example, I have a conversion barrel for my .40 cal to 9mm so I can use either ammo type. Similary, .357 gives me options while a .38 special does not.
In my view, the ONLY reason to buy an airweight is if you absolutely cannot stand to carry a heavier piece. After all, a handgun is of no use to you if you are not carrying it. And a .38 special was used as a self-defense round for decades. If a few shots is all you need and you rarely need them, then why not go for the lightweight pea shooter. As pea shooters go, .38 special is the Queen and 9mm is the King.
Just don't expect spectacular results from this under-powered cartridge. A .357 magnum is near the top of the man-killing effects range while .38 special is near the bottom along with 9mm. Handguns kill by damaging major organs and opening up blood vessels. A larger round gives you a greater chance of doing this. ALL handguns are under-powered compared to the devastating effects of rifles and shotguns.
While I value my .357 snubbie and wouldn't part with it, my go-to gun for concealed carry would likely be my Kahr K-40. The 40 cal is near the top of man-killing capability, and the Kahr is a flat, lightweight weapon. My Glock 23, also in .40 cal, would be next. I have no worries about their reliability.
Revolvers have an exaggerated reputation for reliability. I assure you that my many revolvers have and will fail from time to time. In most cases, you just have to pull the trigger again, but if a revolver does jam, you might as well use it like a rock.
The best reason for using a revolver is to leave no shell casings behind. I'll leave it up to you to decide whether that is important to you.
I bought a 640-1 which is an older model .357 magnum shrouded hammer J-frame. The shrouded hammer is definitely better for concealment, especially in an ankle holster where a hammer spur can catch on clothing. But you lose the single action pull. This can be mitigated by replacing the rebound spring and smoothing the surfaces around the rebound slide and hammer. This is not hard to do yourself, but if you mess it up, you can easily destroy the pistol. I would never recommend using a lighter mainspring because this will increase the chances of a light primer strike. An extended firing pin doesn't always solve this problem.
I have carried it in an ankle holster, and it is heavy enough to change the way you walk. It will also noticeably distort the shape of a jacket pocket. It is fairly comfortable in an IWB holster, but with the large cylinder it will never be as comfortable as a semi-auto.
As with any J-frame, your accuracy is limited by the short sight axis and poor sights. But with practice you will easily be able to hit a man in the chest at 7-10 yards. I have Crimson Trace grips on mine, but I never recommend relying on a laser for a handgun. It is there for times when my ability to aim through the sights is compromised.
I bought the .357 magnum precisely because it can fire .357 magnum, .38 special, and .38 special +P. The extra weight and strength of the gun is desirable for durability. Frankly, firing .357 magnum rounds out of this pistol is awful. The first round stings, the second round hurts, and the third round really hurts. If you use it at night against an attacker, you will be deaf and blind after the first shot although not as bad off as the poor sucker on the other end of this thing.
But I have the choice to load it with three different types of rounds. Right now it is loaded with .38 special +P. If I found myself out of ammo and the first box I found was .357, I won't be out of luck. For me, versatility in ammo is a HIGH priority. For example, I have a conversion barrel for my .40 cal to 9mm so I can use either ammo type. Similary, .357 gives me options while a .38 special does not.
In my view, the ONLY reason to buy an airweight is if you absolutely cannot stand to carry a heavier piece. After all, a handgun is of no use to you if you are not carrying it. And a .38 special was used as a self-defense round for decades. If a few shots is all you need and you rarely need them, then why not go for the lightweight pea shooter. As pea shooters go, .38 special is the Queen and 9mm is the King.
Just don't expect spectacular results from this under-powered cartridge. A .357 magnum is near the top of the man-killing effects range while .38 special is near the bottom along with 9mm. Handguns kill by damaging major organs and opening up blood vessels. A larger round gives you a greater chance of doing this. ALL handguns are under-powered compared to the devastating effects of rifles and shotguns.
While I value my .357 snubbie and wouldn't part with it, my go-to gun for concealed carry would likely be my Kahr K-40. The 40 cal is near the top of man-killing capability, and the Kahr is a flat, lightweight weapon. My Glock 23, also in .40 cal, would be next. I have no worries about their reliability.
Revolvers have an exaggerated reputation for reliability. I assure you that my many revolvers have and will fail from time to time. In most cases, you just have to pull the trigger again, but if a revolver does jam, you might as well use it like a rock.
The best reason for using a revolver is to leave no shell casings behind. I'll leave it up to you to decide whether that is important to you.
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You, sir, are a man after my own heart. Around the house and within a few miles of our home in a quiet neighborhood, a 642-1 (no lock) with a Titanium cylinder is my faithful, 38 special companion.
I concur, especially on longer errands and while on my bike! But, substitute a Kahr PM40 for your K-40. It has all of the good ballistics, most of the good handling of the "K", and is as light as your 640-1.
Note: This is not an attempt at to "one up" Mr. POWinCA.
Had I not stumbled upon my choices at good prices, mostly via private sales, my choices might have matched his more closely.
M3Stuart
Member
+1 on the 642-1 pro series with moonclips in .38 Special. That's what I use. I also have a pre-lock 60-9 but find I don't carry it much. (that's a 2 1/8th inch stainless model 60 chambered for .357). I sold my 36 after I got the 642 because I wasn't carrying it anymore.
