S&W color case hardening methods?

silicosys4 · Sep 21, 2024

Hi everyone,
I finally got my recently acquired 17-2 out to shoot and when I got it into full sunlight Wow!

The case hardening on the hammer was carnival clown colorful, like it had been done by Turnbull.

I've never seen such vivid case hardening on S&W triggers or hammers before, mostly straw and grey, some blue if you were lucky.

Does anyone know the process or methods that S&W uses to case harden their trigger? I thought they were just going for a case hardening but maybe there was a period where they were using a more color inducing method

Or just luck of the draw and a fluke? Or are they all like that out the factory door and just most lose it through use? That doesn't seem to be the case because I have a few NIB guns with case hardened trigger and again, nothing special, straw and gray streaks

Of the S&W's I have, only 2 show any significant colors but I remember owning a 10-5 with very vivid colors now that I think about it. That would make a 10-5, a 17-2, and I have a 14-3 that's also pretty colorful...so maybe its a 1960's thing.

H Richard · Sep 22, 2024

WOW, About the wildest ones I've ever seen. They almost look too much to be factory correct. I'm no expert, but hopefully one will be along soon.

mrcvs · Sep 22, 2024

I live in a world of named Smith & Wesson revolvers, and not numbered one, so my collection is pre WWII, but this case colouring is typical of the work of Smith & Wesson going back to the 19th Century. I think it’s original and one of the better examples from the post war era.

Mike SC Hunter · Sep 22, 2024

Sadly the new powdered MIM S&W hammers and triggers are just dove gray.

VaTom · Sep 22, 2024

Don’t know the process but S&W had a patent on it way back. Hammers and triggers on revolvers in the 1920s and 30s had patent information stamped on them. Began in 1926 and ended during WWII. Picture of my Model 1917 Commerial hammer from 1920s. Same information on back of the trigger.

Nice.

THE PILGRIM · Sep 22, 2024

I don’t recall seeing colors that bright.
Here are my Backups.
They look plenty bland compared to the ones above!

murphydog · Sep 22, 2024

My recollection is the case-hardening was done with bone and charcoal heated to very high temperatures. I would guess the batch-to-batch process varied some along with the results.

rct269 · Sep 22, 2024

I also have no clue as to how the process was done.

My collection of targets began with the first examples (NM #3's) and ended with the last of the "5 screws"---mid 1950's----not counting a handful of auto loaders. The very attractive color case hardening prevailed---although I must admit I didn't pay a whole lot of attention to that aspect.

I'll hazard a guess the end of the "5 screws" begin the philosophy of achieving success by building the product at the lowest possible cost, rather than producing the best possible product for the price-----as it had been since the beginning. I'll follow that with another guess that the case hardening process which produces the gorgeous colors cost more than that which doesn't.

So much for the guessing games!

Ralph Tremaine

silicosys4 · Sep 22, 2024

My understanding of the process is that Case hardening and Color Case hardening are not the same process. All genuine Color Case Hardened parts are Case hardened as part of the process, but there are extra steps in Case hardening to get colors other than mottled grey colors.
I'm thinking at one point S&W used one process, then switched to another process as I understand case hardening can be achieved under a wider array of conditions whereupon color case hardening needs some pretty specific conditions to achieve the desired color spectrums...a specific mix of gasses aerated into the water, specific types of charcoal or bone, etc..

22hipower · Sep 22, 2024

The colors on this M48 from 1959 I think are the brightest of any gun I own. Not sure if it originally left the factory that way or became so when refinished in 1969. And I don't know either, how S&W managed to produce the colors, but they don't appear to have faded much in the last 50 or 60 years.

Jeff
SWCA #1457

https://flic.kr/p/2qi4i4r https://www.flickr.com/photos/194934231@N03/

silicosys4 · Sep 22, 2024

22hipower said:
The colors on this M48 from 1959 I think are the brightest of any gun I own. Not sure if it originally left the factory that way or became so when refinished in 1969. And I don't know either, how S&W managed to produce the colors.

Jeff
SWCA #1457

https://flic.kr/p/2qi4i4r https://www.flickr.com/photos/194934231@N03/

WOW! That has to be factory, and whatever process S&W was using at the time was colorful!

I have a few of the Turnbull CCH S&W's,
Boy I wish S&W would have produced some frames with their in-house CCH methods of that time. I would love to see what they would have turned out like.

JohnRippert · Sep 22, 2024

I expect the flash is making the colors pop more than standard lighting would.

silicosys4 · Sep 22, 2024

JohnRippert said:
I expect the flash is making the colors pop more than standard lighting would.

Definitely. I had to use an LED flashlight to get the colors to pop on mine, and only first noticed it out in full sunlight. After I saw it I went through the rest of my S&W's and even in the same direct light most are very plain, not showing any case hardening or just a few dirty looking streaks or mottling of grey

sceva · Sep 22, 2024

Typical early 1950's case color; at least typical after 72 years.

jimmyj · Sep 22, 2024

MisInformation ?
Years ago I was told that case harding came from heating the part to a certain temperture and then duckin the part in oil.

silicosys4 · Sep 22, 2024

jimmyj said:
MisInformation ?
Years ago I was told that case harding came from heating the part to a certain temperture and then duckin the part in oil.

Thats quench hardening.

Case and color case hardening involve packing the parts to be hardened in a container packed full of charcoal and bone, then set in a kiln at a high temperature for a length of time...with the idea that the bone and charcoal will impart carbon into the top layer of steel, thereby hardening it. After a certain length of time, the container is taken from the kiln and dumped into water with as little exposure to the atmosphere as possible during the process.

Case hardening is simply a matter of heating up the parts and getting the charcoal into the top layer of metal.

The color magic happens with the variances in the ingredients... different types of bone or charcoal, the temperature of the kiln, what gasses are dissolved into the water and how much that water is agitated during the dunk, etc...

22hipower · Sep 23, 2024

JohnRippert said:
I expect the flash is making the colors pop more than standard lighting would.

No flash, that is outside in shade.

Jeff
SWCA #1457

Jaco1234 · Sep 23, 2024

Case hardening is the process of placing very hot iron in an atmosphere rich in carbon.
There are many methods. Bone black and charcoal are one. Another is the use of cyanide producing chemicals. This method used before the torn of the century was very hard on metal workers. The sword makers from India used acanthus leaves sealed with the blade in a ceramic vessel.
Then ther is good old Kasenite.

S&W color case hardening methods?

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