CHL holder trying to break up a fight loses pistol, is killed by police

A little mentioned hazard of a CHL carrying is being shot by police.
Appears this happened on Portland.
PSU Shooting
Update

This seems to be the issue (quoted from your "Update" link):

Dietz recalled the man reaching for his gun after police told him three or four times not to.

"They warned him multiple times not to reach for it, but he did," Dietz said. "I don't want the message out there that the cops were trigger-happy."

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Exactly. On the ground and leave there.

In situations when LEOs are around pay very good attention to what is said to you! Then you will probably just get a good butt chewing when all makes sense to the officer and be able to leave the scene on your own power.

NYlakesider said:

In situations when LEOs are around...

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Just leave. Immediately.

It's sad. What a loss for his family. Why did he get involved in the altercation I wonder?

It's a sad situation with lessons to be learned, but the template of life-ending hazards often has 1:30AM bar fight in the title.

My heart goes out to all the innocent people that have to live with the consequences.

Nothing good ever happens after midnight.

DO WHAT HE SAY, DO WHAT HE SAY!!!

Follow simple directions to a T, no more, no less. Feel you were unfairly treated??? Take it up with a lawyer LATER.

Very sad situation.

I suspect the decedent had had a few celebrating the basketball victory. That was what he was there for.

Did that impact his judgement, leading him to get involved in trying to break up a fight and then to ignor the cops' command to leave his gun on the ground? I'll bet it did.

To me, the takeaways are: no booze when carrying a gun, stay out of other peoples' dispute and DO WHAT THE COPS TELL YOU TO DO IMMEDIATELY!!

I agree with RPG.

I have no interest in getting involved in other people's fights, and would never bring a weapon along when out celebrating after a ball game.

A CCW holder is not a junior police officer. Let the cops handle disputes.

It's all common sense. If you are CCW don't involve yourself
in matters that put you at risk. Cops don't know what's going
on other than they see gun. When COP gives an order obey it.
They are there to handle the trouble not to shoot innocent
citizens. They want to go home too. Everyday you see some
kind of shooting case involving police. The demonization of the
COPs has caused deaths of innocent people indirectly. Because
of the political climate some cops will hesitate to shoot and that
results in their death or injury. The other side of the coin is that
COPs can be hair trigger just to protect their own. Any contact
with COPs will be a lot better if people would just use common
sense. There are a few bad apples and people who don't have
the ability to be law enforcement but they are not the rule. The
Just use common sense and don't take it personally, the Cop is
just trying to do his job and make it home without being shot.

MYOB. More important today than ever..

In addition to what Muss Muggins points out, I saw that there was reference in the article to a lack of apparent hesitation by the cops. That's right. Hesitation is fatal, as shown by decades of study of violent incidents, including dead cops. The time periods for decision and action are measures in hundredths of seconds.

Sadly, the decedent seems to have been a fundamentally decent person, and in my professional experience, they are the hardest to convince not to make unwise decisions. They "know" that they are a good guy and not a problem to cops and others. Cops can't afford to take that at face value. Sometimes people get offended; sometimes they get hurt or killed. Note also that the time frame is consistent with having consumed some amount of alcohol; the amount it takes to have a negative impact on judgment is far less than most people understand. 95% of the human population show impaired judgment and motor skills at .05%; judgment goes first, so figure MAYBE .03% (which for 230 pound Doug is one drink, certainly no more than two).

Note also that his pistol fell out of his holster. There is a hard lesson there - substandard gear is as bad as a substandard gun. I have seen some really unfortunate choices in belts and holsters, both in person and described by writers (including here). This is serious stuff, and if you don't treat it as such, the consequences can be serious.

Then there is the fun and games at stupid places (and a sports bar at almost any time is a stupid place ... late night/early AM when people have been drinking, even if you haven't, it certainly is). Don't go to them. If you think I am wrong, go re-read the article again, and pay someone to apply slap therapy and pull your head out of your seat until you un(screw) yourself. For the love of all that is holy, don't intervene unless you UTTERLY sure of who is who, and what is what, and that an innocent party will be killed or injured if you don't. Myself - I have only come close when cops were engaged in something and needed backup RFN, and I still started with a 911 call.

All of this was preventable, and all of it was the result of utterly ignorant choices by a man who by all indications meant well. Each bad choice led to a subsequent bad choice, just like running down a gravel covered hill.

Agreed. Unless it impacts me or mine, or our ability to get to safety, sorry, but it's not my circus and not my monkey . . .

Breakaway500 said:

MYOB. More important today than ever..

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In that "update" link, what is that finger gesture? I don't understand young 'uns any more.

Rule #1 MYOB.... you don't really know what's going on.

Need to see the whole video.... not just 31 seconds..........

But a question...... was the guy shot in the Gray T-shirt....... and is that his gun grip sticking out of his pocket??????????

If so; looks like he might have had his back to the officer(s) when he was shot???????? Lots of yelling going on..... never heard the commands.

Can't tell are those yellow things tasers????


Me see big civil settlement coming........

Breakaway500 said:

MYOB. More important today than ever..

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Agreed. I learned that lesson in 1978 when my new brother-in-law who was anxious to welcome me to the family, took me on a club hopping night. As we left the second club I saw a guy beating the **** out of a lady that he had pinned up against the wall. I turned go "get involved", and my brother-in-law grabbed me by the neck of my shirts and said - "If you pull him off her SHE will be on your back helping him! That's how women are over here (in Muskegon Heights)"

Never even been tempted to intervene since then.

Some bad decisions were made here.

1. Drinking while armed.
2. Wrestling others on the street while armed.
3. Placing a gun in your hand with the police anywhere around you.

BAM-BAM said:

If so; looks like he might have had his back to the officer(s) when he was shot???????? Lots of yelling going on..... never heard the commands.

Can't tell are those yellow things tasers????


Me see big civil settlement coming........

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*
Tasers are not a particularly useful tool under the 9th Circuit case law, which in essence restricts them to higher levels of resistance where they not useful. I would get rid of them because they now take up space and the moonbats who think cops shoot too many people think they should be used instead of firearms.

The only reason for a settlement would be the standard dishonesty of the anti-cop plaintiff's bar and the standard malpractice of the LE defense bar.

Contrary to the crazy assertions of the 9th Circuit, there is no reason to give a warning before using deadly force other than in a fleeing felon circumstance, which this was not, and then only if feasible. If the suspect does not hear or does not obey, that does not matter. All that matters is that this is a garden variety self-defense shooting based on case law that is far older than the 4th amendment seizure case law.