A FEW GOOD REASONS NOT TO USE OPTICS ON A EDC/CCW GUN

I'm with you 100% Chief

Like has been said. The bulk of CCW use is going to be up close and personal. Time to think and/or "get ready" is not going to be there.

That's where the practice and muscle memory comes in. I'm no close combat expert by any means however I do practice, a lot. And a bunch of my practice is "hip shooting". Odd angles, on one knee, left handed and so on.

I'm not adding trying to acquire a red dot or turn something on or whatever into my process.

I want my practice to be 2nd nature. 1,2,3,4. 1,2,3,4. I'm not going to make it 1,2,3,4,5,6

That's also why I believe just one EDC. KISS

And no I'm not saying you can't carry a 155mm howitzer in the woods hunting. But only one EDC firearm. Learn it, know it, practice, practice with it.
 
I’m pretty much in agreement. Much is said about the size of EDC gun. If it’s large and cumbersome you’re more likely to leave it at home. To me putting an optic on a micro 9 defeats the purpose of it being a “micro”. It no longer fits in my pocket. The one question I have is. Do guys who use optics turn them on when they put gun on? Or do they intend to turn it on when needed? The closest I’ve come to optics is Crimson Trace Laser Grips on my Baretta Tomcat. But the sights shoot to same POI.
 
Bald1 said:
I’m pretty much in agreement. Much is said about the size of EDC gun. If it’s large and cumbersome you’re more likely to leave it at home. To me putting an optic on a micro 9 defeats the purpose of it being a “micro”. It no longer fits in my pocket. The one question I have is. Do guys who use optics turn them on when they put gun on? Or do they intend to turn it on when needed? The closest I’ve come to optics is Crimson Trace Laser Grips on my Baretta Tomcat. But the sights shoot to same POI.
Click to expand...

Optics now have a “shake awake” feature that turns the optic on as soon as it is moved. Battery life is very long. Thousands of hours.
 
To address the elephant in the room, it has been my experience that many individuals who recently started carrying feel as if they want the “cool” factor of adding stuff to their EDC as if they were dressing up their AR-15. Sights, optics, flashlights, special triggers and extra mags out the wazoo. CCW is serious business and if it wasn’t part of my job and I had not experienced life on the other side then my thoughts may be different. Real life experiences change perspectives. When I re-qualified a couple months ago with my old department, I spoke with so many young officers flashing all this stuff we are speaking about and also saw them shooting in the 80% range. I took a LW Commander and shot two perfect scores, got my new LEOSA card and wandered down the training building where we were fed a catered meal!
 
The biggest downside to an optic is that the shooter thinks it will make shooting easier. They tend to forget fundamentals. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve heard “I was holding the dot right on the target” then I tell them yes you were just before you jerked the trigger and dipped the muzzle. I have to take the gun from them and shoot it for them before they believe the optic is zeroed. Optics are not better than irons and irons are not better than optics. They are different and one has advantages and disadvantages over the other.
 
jbull380 said:
Optics now have a “shake awake” feature that turns the optic on as soon as it is moved. Battery life is very long. Thousands of hours.
Click to expand...

Assuming the "shake away" feature, batteries and contacts all work as designed. I just don't see an equal amount of advantage at a few feet (most self defense needs) against all the disadvantages mentioned in the original post.

Hey, to each his/her own, but IMHO it's just tries to fix a problem that doesn't exist and can actually be a hinderance for many toters in many ways. K.I.S.S. works for me.

Again, for competitions, LEO's who do take more long range shots, I can see optical sights. My post was focused on non LEO regular armed citizens.
 
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Seems like the usual (some) in the older up in age generation who think the way they did things and di things is better than the younger generation. They don't like change or evolution. The same phenomenon and arguments happened when polymer framed pistols and even night sites started to become popular.

#1: Optics are reliable and have been proven. The notion that the battery failure suddenly out of the blue during a self-defense situations when they've been perfectly fine otherwise is improbable "what-if" conjecture that's not probably or is happening in reality with quality optics. Next, it's common for most people to have their optic and irons co-witness, so that even if the optic is damaged, the irons can be used as backup.

#2: I believe the OP is projecting. Just because he hypothesize that his brain can not handle switch back and forty between irons and optics, he puts that on everyone else. I know MANY gun owners who routinely train and shoot with both irons and optics, and they are fast, accurate, and efficient with both.

#3: Just because a pistol has iron sites and/or an optic on it doesn't mean the shooter MUST utilize them. That is, if a self-defense situation happens at bad breath distances, the shooter can point and shoot and NOT use their optic or irons. If they're in a situation where there is more time/distance then they can utilize their optics or irons. The argument that optics on a EDC are useless just because many altercations will call for point shooting is just as silly as saying that no one's EDC should have iron sites attached to the slide for that same exact reason.
 
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chief38 said:
Assuming the "shake away" feature, batteries and contacts all work as designed. I just don't see an equal amount of advantage at a few feet (most self defense needs) against all the disadvantages mentioned in the original post.

Hey, to each his/her own, but IMHO it's just tries to fix a problem that doesn't exist and can actually be a hinderance for many toters in many ways. K.I.S.S. works for me.

Again, for competitions, LEO's who do take more long range shots, I can see optical sights. My post was focused on non LEO regular armed citizens.
Click to expand...

I get it but I was seeing a lot of posts by people whom I think may not have been up to speed on what the optics of today are capable of and have to offer, especially for those older eyes. My off duty guns do not have optics on them. They may in the future but not now.
 
ken158 said:
To address the elephant in the room, it has been my experience that many individuals who recently started carrying feel as if they want the “cool” factor of adding stuff to their EDC as if they were dressing up their AR-15. Sights, optics, flashlights, special triggers and extra mags out the wazoo. CCW is serious business and if it wasn’t part of my job and I had not experienced life on the other side then my thoughts may be different. Real life experiences change perspectives. When I re-qualified a couple months ago with my old department, I spoke with so many young officers flashing all this stuff we are speaking about and also saw them shooting in the 80% range. I took a LW Commander and shot two perfect scores, got my new LEOSA card and wandered down the training building where we were fed a catered meal!
Click to expand...

A friend of mine (who was a range officer for a good sized PD) called those young guys "Hamburger Flippers".
 
Well Armed said:
Seems like the usual (some) in the older up in age generation who think the way they did things and di things is better than the younger generation. They don't like change or evolution. The same phenomenon and arguments happened when polymer framed pistols and even night sites started to become popular.

#1: Optics are reliable and have been proven. The notion that the battery failure suddenly out of the blue during a self-defense situations when they've been perfectly fine otherwise is improbable "what-if" conjecture that's not probably or is happening in reality with quality optics. Next, it's common for most people to have their optic and irons co-witness, so that even if the optic is damaged, the irons can be used as backup.

#2: I believe the OP is projecting. Just because he hypothesize that his brain can not handle switch back and forty between irons and optics, he puts that on everyone else. I know MANY gun owners who routinely train and shoot with both irons and optics, and they are fast, accurate, and efficient with both.

#3: Just because a pistol has iron sites and/or an optic on it doesn't mean the shooter MUST utilize them. That is, if a self-defense situation happens at bad breath distances, the shooter can point and shoot and NOT use their optic or irons. If they're in a situation where there is more time/distance then they can utilize their optics or irons. The argument that optics on a EDC are useless just because many altercations will call for point shooting is just as silly as saying that no one's EDC should have iron sites attached to the slide for that same exact reason.
Click to expand...

Don't get shot looking for your dot.......
 
chief38 said:
Assuming the "shake away" feature, batteries and contacts all work as designed. I just don't see an equal amount of advantage at a few feet (most self defense needs) against all the disadvantages mentioned in the original post.
Click to expand...

So you are against iron sights on EDCs too? Do you believe irons should be taken off of carry guns because self-defense situations can also happen within a few short feet? No one who trains or practices at the range or in a class should be utilizing their irons because they're not ever going to need them?
 
I know why a lot of people want optics on their EDC. They take their EDC to a range and blaze away at a target, usually at a longer range than would be common for SD scenario. They get lousy results and thing they should get bullseye type results. Slap a red dot on their EDC and they can actually keep some bullets on paper.
Actually 99% of SD is going to be at ranges that don’t require any sights.
It is story time if they think they are going to be drawing a bead on the bad guy. There is a lot of people making a lot of money selling “tactical” stuff to people who don’t know jack about what they are doing. Futher more they aren’t going to invest the time or effort to learn.
 
Mike said:
Don't get shot looking for your dot.......
Click to expand...

It's not a laser. I see a lot of comments coming from those who are ignorant about red dots. You don't search for the dot. The dot is there then you draw. It's faster for most people, even newbies and experienced shooters alike, to get on target with dots vs irons.
 
Well Armed said:
So you are against iron sights on EDCs too? Do you believe irons should be taken off of carry guns because self-defense situations can also happen within a few short feet? No one who trains or practices at the range or in a class should be utilizing their irons because they're not ever going to need them?
Click to expand...


For "up close & personal" fights measured in feet, sights are of no consequence. Trigger control is and then it is sort of like a computer as you "point & click".
 
AJ said:
For "up close & personal" fights measured in feet, sights are of no consequence. Trigger control is and then it is sort of like a computer as you "point & click".
Click to expand...

That's my point. If that's the case, why aren't everyone bashing putting night sights or having irons on pistols period? Using that logic and argument, people who put night sights, fiber optic sights, or have sights on their pistols at are are wasting their money. Using that logic, those who use their irons during training and practice at the range with their EDC are also wasting their time.

Anyone in this thread who ever trained with their EDC while utilizing their irons or who ever installed sights on their EDC pistols wasted their money and time because irons on EDCs are completely useless, correct?
 
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Well Armed said:
It's not a laser. I see a lot of comments coming from those who are ignorant about red dots. You don't search for the dot. The dot is there then you draw. It's faster for most people, even newbies and experienced shooters alike, to get on target with dots vs irons.
Click to expand...

I know it's not a lazer........It's a ting electric dot in a 1 in. screen that would be very hard to find in an up close (very fast) bad situation.
 
Mike said:
I know it's not a lazer........It's a ting electric dot in a 1 in. screen that would be very hard to find in an up close (very fast) bad situation.
Click to expand...

But it's not hard to find lol. What you claim in not true at all. That's why I say you're not speaking from experience, and it's evident. You are not searching for the dot. You present the weapon, focus on the threat, and the dot is there. You aren't searching for a dot in the same since that you'd be searching for a dot using a laser sight.

Next, most self defense optics dots are typically 3" or 6" MOA, NOT 1" as you incorrectly claimed. Yet another example that you are inexperienced and are making assumptions.
 
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AJ said:
We need a poll!
Click to expand...

You didn't respond to my prior post?

AJ said:
For "up close & personal" fights measured in feet, sights are of no consequence. Trigger control is and then it is sort of like a computer as you "point & click".
Click to expand...

That's my point. If that's the case, why aren't everyone bashing putting night sights or having irons on pistols period? Using that logic and argument, people who put night sights, fiber optic sights, or have sights on their pistols at are are wasting their money. Using that logic, those who use their irons during training and practice at the range with their EDC are also wasting their time.

Anyone in this thread who ever trained with their EDC while utilizing their irons or who ever installed sights on their EDC pistols wasted their money and time because irons on EDCs are completely useless, correct?
 
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