358 WIN Rifle Build

NFrameFred · Dec 11, 2012

I realize many folks come here and if they don't do online buying and selling they ignore the classifieds; there are certain areas/topics I seldom visit because . . . well, too little time and other stuff interests me more.

I'll soon turn 59 and haven't got to do as much hunting as I'd like the last couple of years because of circumstances and obligations, but I've been kicking around a custom rifle build for a few years now, and probably need to "do it or get off the pot", so to speak

.

Nothing fancy - actually very utilitarian - more cartridge driven than anything else. I like larger calibers (what's not to like ?

) but hunted for years with a .308 bolt rifle and always got exceptional results - 98% drop-in-their-tracks performance on eastern whitetails. So, why mess with success, right? Then a buddy sold me his .35 Whelen and though it is overkill on whitetails around here it's hard not to like the caliber and no arguing it does the job. Then I broke down and added a .35 Remington lever gun to the collection that I had avoided for years, and it just reinforced my desire for a short, handy bolt gun in .358 Winchester.

I'm not expecting it to be an economical undertaking - I'll no doubt "lose money on the deal". But this is one of those that doesn't have to make perfect economic sense for me. Since the orphan cartridge never quite caught on due mostly to the ascension of the .308, there are no reasonably priced options available anyway to fill the niche.

So, I thought I'd start this thread to see who else here loves the .35 caliber and see what tales they would have to tell.
And if someone has one they want to sell or swap and save me the trouble . . . wouldn't hurt my feelings.

(Also same as European chambering called 8.8 X 51)

2152hq · Dec 11, 2012

If you don't want to 'build' a rifle but want something classic in a bolt rifle in .35 cal,,there are many pre-War 98 Mauser sporters around in 9mm Mauser (9x57mm).
The 9x57 is actually charted as using a bullet of .356 diameter.
Many of the rifles can use standard .358dia bullets due to groove diameter differences in older rifles.
A 7 or 8 x57mm chambered rifle can be easily rebored to 9x57 to give a perfect bore and groove dimension.
Brass can be made by expanding 7 or 8mm Mauser up to 9mmMauser.
Ballistics are on par with the 358WCF.

Yes it's more work to experiment with, measure the bore, make brass up, ect.
But it's another 35cal to consider.
You might even find an orphaned Winchester Model 70 or Remington Model 30 lying around in 9mm Mauser as each was chambered in the caliber.
Expect to pay dearly though if the seller recognizes what they are!

My 9mm Mauser caliber rifle is a Steyr 'New Model' Mannlicher. Sort of a Gew88 / M98 hybrid sporter made by Steyr. The original design was for China as a military rifle but was rejected. The actions then used to make sporters, mostly seen marked by Haenel.

Another of the same Steyr rifles is now a 35 Whelen. Undoubtedly originally a 9mm Mauser caliber, it was rechambered for some extra power north of the border many years ago. The mag box length for the shorter 'x57mm' cartridge does limit the bullet selection in the Whelen but otherwise works fine even with it's less than perfect bore..

A Remington Model 8 in 35Remington made in 1911 completes my 35cal rifle group now.
I sold the Remington Model 14's including a 'C' grade not too long ago.

A Mannlicher Schoenauer Model 1905 cal 9x56 MS would be another 35cal.
They are known for somewhat wide variance in groove diameters though, so you can really get into custom components with some of them.
The M1905 is usually priced the least of 4 common M/S models and that is one reason for it.

NFrameFred · Dec 11, 2012

Appreciate the insights and the primer on the European cartridges.

But I'm kinda set on a .358 Winchester, based on the .308 case. Just something about it that appeals to me, not the least of which is availability of formable brass and the symmetry between necking the 30'06 up to the the 35 Whelen and same between the .308 up to the .358.

The Whelen cases are easily formed from plentiful '06 brass and I expect the same for the .358 since .308 brass is easy to come by.

Interesting concept - may never get to build it, but it's a certainty it won't happen if I don't start trying to put the pieces together while I can.

35Rem · Dec 11, 2012

The Whelen does better with the heavier bullets, as you wind up taking up case space with the heavier bullets in the shorter case of the 358.

Be careful that your magazine is long enough to handle longer reloads. some of the pointy bullets are too long for short magazines.

What about the 356 Win in a Marlin lever??

thndrchiken · Dec 11, 2012

I love the 35 Whelen, I have two, one is a Remington 7600 and the other is a SS Ruger Hawkeye, they are my primary PA deer guns. I load 250 gr Hornady RN and it really puts a thumping on them.

Snapping Twig · Dec 11, 2012

Sako action, Hart barrel.

I'd some day like to do up a 35 Whelen, a 340 Wby, a 260, and so on.

Best of luck and enjoy the journey.

NFrameFred · Dec 11, 2012

Hmmmm . . . I'm sensing a pattern here . . .

Seems no one (so far) agrees with my desire.

I know performance-wise I'm not really gaining anything. And if I need power, as you say, the Whelen is up to it. I'm just thinking a Remington model 7 sized .358 Win would be extremely cool to hunt these hills with. I know they made the M7 in .350 magnum, but that's not attractive to me either, though I'd probably go that route as cheaper and more satisfying (to me personally) than the suggestions thus far, which I know are being offered in the spirit of thoughtfulness and helping. I let my .458 Model 70 go a couple of years ago after wringing the fun out of it because I didn't want a detached retina, and the .350 mag at factory loading in a gun the size of a model 7 isn't any more comfortable. My Whelen is in the full sized 700 'Classic' that they only made for a year, so it's not much worse than the '06, recoil-wise.

Guys, I've examined all the reasons not to do it for a few years - and I still want it ! sorry . . .

5-Shot · Dec 11, 2012

Sounds like a good idea to me. It would make a killer cast bullet gun. You could probably come up with a cast bullet load that would work for hunting just fine, if you were of a mind to.

Check out the on line auction sights. There are a bunch of 358 Winchesters for sale right now. There's even a Ruger 77 which would make a decent "try it and see if you like it" kind of gun.

Have fun,

Ed

NFrameFred · Dec 11, 2012

Thanks , Ed. I'll look again.

jaykellogg · Dec 11, 2012

There is a lever action Browning BLR on gunbroker for under a grand. If it were me, I would pick up a good used .308 and have it rebored.

metrotps · Dec 11, 2012

If you could llive with a Type 38 Arisaka action, especially one with a ground mum, a Bubba'd rifle can be had for cheap. Sometimes with the bolt bent. The T38 will handle a 308 based cartridge with ease.

35Rem · Dec 11, 2012

I want to reitterate this now that you said Model 7: Be careful that your magazine is long enough to handle longer reloads. Some of the pointy bullets are too long for short magazines (like a Model 7).

Use a short 700 action.

DWalt · Dec 11, 2012

While there were some number of guns factory chambered in .358 Win, it never really caught on the way its sister rounds (.308 and .243) did. I have frequently heard it was because the shoulder was so small it did not hold headspace too well and was lacking in grouping capability. Or maybe most gun purchasers just did not believe they needed a .358. I'd look for something already chambered in .358, and not finding anything suitable, look at re-barreling a Model 700 or similar action. If I could find one of the original Savage Model 99s (lever action) which was chambered in .358 for awhile, and wanted a rifle in .358, that would be my first choice.

kleiss1 · Dec 11, 2012

I love my .350 Remington Mag. Came in the 700 Classic years ago. Put mine in a fiberglass stock. Shoots a 200gr. Hornaday under an inch at 100 yds. Short and light to carry. Killed a black bear, several elk and deer. Drops them in there tracks. Ruger 77 came out with one. The original was the Remington Model 660 I beleive.

cussedemgun · Dec 12, 2012

My 358 "built" rifle

I have two huntin' sticks chambered for the 358 Win.

One is a Browning lever so chambered from the factory. I do like my Browning levers as they shoot acurately, have the convenience of a removable magazine, are fast handling, and last but not least, the look nice!

The second rifle I have chambered for 358 Win. is a Remington M600 that started it's life chambered for the 35 Rem. The owner before me got the gun after it had been a "boat gun" for many years. As he recieved it, pieces of the rib were missing, rear sight was gone, had some surface rust, & the of original stock was scratched severely. Yhe worst damage was the chamber had been left loaded 'till it had enough corrosion in the chamber area to cause sticky cases (some had to be driven out from the muzzle. His rebuild was a refinish & a rechamber to 358 Win.

Bottom line, I have an affordable, compact bolt gun in the 358 Win. It shoots better than I do & is awsome for knock-down out to my limit of 200 +/- yards.

NFrameFred · Dec 12, 2012

cussedemgun said:
The second rifle I have chambered for 358 Win. is a Remington M600 that started it's life chambered for the 35 Rem. The owner before me got the gun after it had been a "boat gun" for many years. As he recieved it, pieces of the rib were missing, rear sight was gone, had some surface rust, & the of original stock was scratched severely. Yhe worst damage was the chamber had been left loaded 'till it had enough corrosion in the chamber area to cause sticky cases (some had to be driven out from the muzzle. His rebuild was a refinish & a rechamber to 358 Win.

Bottom line, I have an affordable, compact bolt gun in the 358 Win. It shoots better than I do & is awsome for knock-down out to my limit of 200 +/- yards.

That's what I'm talking about ! Sounds like just what I had in mind - except I couldn't be that lucky . . .

NYlakesider · Dec 12, 2012

I had a Browning .358 BLR (Belgium) with a 3-9 Redfield widefield scope for a bunch of years. It was a decent shooter. It shot fine with factory ammo, but of course a little tinkering with hand loads and it got even better.

It probably only had 60 rounds of real factory ammo through it and as .308 brass is easy to find & work thats what it got fed the most.

I enjoyed the rifle and it took a few deer up here in the mountains of upper NYS. After we got access to some really nice hunting grounds in lower NYS I found I was carrying my 25.06 BDL as it could reach out farther/easier. Some of the fields by the old farm could easily give a 400 yard shot so the reason the 06 was the gun to have.

The .358 sort of turned into a safe queen and a fellow from my gun club was interested it in because it was a Belgium, so with a nice chunk of change in hand it went to a new home.

boatbum101 · Dec 12, 2012

I got one built on a post 64 M70 that was originally .308 . Barrel was about shot out , so a new Douglas barrel & chambered in .358W . Parkerized , H-S stock , Kahles 1.5-6x42 30mm. Great in the woods & the 358 is a 200yds or less cartridge . Barrel shoots OK , but is a fouler so I'll hold off on cast loads 'til she smooths out . Still doing load developement , but so far the Sierra 225 & IMR3031 seem to be the ticket for it . Heavier slugs loaded & ready to test . The 358 aint a target round 1.5moa seems to be the norm . Cases easily formed from 308 , my Redding FL die has a tapered expander . I lightly lube every 3rd case neck with Imperial wax .

Texas Star · Dec 12, 2012

As DWalt noted, the small shoulder on the .358 made it marginally stable on headspacing. I think Jack O'Connor wrote that if a firing pin hit hard enough, the case wasn't stable in the chamber. He thought it was one reason why the chambering was dropped. He otherwise respected .35's.

I think you need a .35 Whelen or a 9.3X 62 or 64mm. The president of Fallkniven knives told me that he hunted moose with a 6.5X55mm, but bought a 9.3mm because bears were being seen where he hunted.

Personally, I'd buy a .375 H&H in a Model 70 or CZ and be happier. More power, and more available ammo.

The .35 has not fared too well in the USA, and even the powerful .358 Norma Magnum was a sales flop, probably killed off by the .338 Winchester and the .340 Weatherby. And the mighty .340 isn't setting any sales records. I've also read that it's a real shoulder-thumper. A nice round, though, if you like Weatherby rifles.

Frank237 · Dec 12, 2012

I'd look at doing a .338-06 . FAR more bullet choices.

Or as already mentioned take a look at one of the CZ 9.3x62's.

Frankly, EITHER one is overkill on short range whitetails. Then again I have shot 70 pound Impala with 300 gr Trophy Bonded's from a .375 H&H too, so what do I know?

Theres a .338-.308 win wildcat out there too.

358 WIN Rifle Build

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