I decided to get out my old Winchester 10 gauge signal canon and refurbish it for the up coming sail boat racing season, as well as for holidays. Despite all of my efforts on the internet, I cannot find a single supplier who has any of the ammo in stock. It fires a 10 gauge blank black powder shotgun shell, 2 7/8" length. I know that they are up to about 2 bucks a round, but I can't find any. Anyone here have any idea where to look? I don't reload shotgun shells or black powder. Maybe I should!

medxam

__________________
Doc Garrett
Dead Man's Doctor

I was looking at a Winchester cannon a few months ago and at that time blanks were available. But they sure are not now. Track of the Wolf has brass shells available and from there it should be pretty simple to load.
Reloading - How to Reload 10 Gauge Brass Shotgun Shells - YouTube

Dang! Klondike beat me to it , but here's what I've got on it...


This is a useable tutorial that will give you some idea how to go about fixing up some blanks. I have made these up in 12 gauge paper hulls in the past using newspaper as wadding.

Brass Shot Shell, 10 gauge, 2-7/8", new production, marked PARKER BRO'S, MERIDEN, CT. use large pistol primer, each - Track of the Wolf

Another way would be to get hold of some loaded 10 gauge shells, cut the end off to remove the shot, wad and smokeless powder. Recharge with some black powder, tamp down with the old wad + some newspaper to get it tight and go with that. The shells can be reused with shotgun primers as per the priming method described in the link.

Black powder is easy to ignite, so a lot of pressure seating any wadding you decide to use is not necessary, nor is a lot of powder needed.

Doc,
I have been reloading mine for years now, and it is quite easy. If you do not have a shot shell reloader you could still do it by hand.
In a pinch you could get some regular 10 gauge shells and dump out the shot and powder ,then add some goex ffg or pyrodex rs.
I dont remember how much but you can figure out . Just start small and work up. I use wads from blue & grey and pour melted wax on top instead of a crimp.
My shells are very old and have splits in them, but I keep on using them and they work well. I am going to look into those brass ones, I didn`t know 10 g was available.

here`s some pix

Attached Images

	Agan`s & Steryo 05-06 041.JPG (179.0 KB, 267 views)
	Agan`s & Steryo 05-06 047.JPG (192.5 KB, 321 views)

10 gauge blanks use an 8 dram (1/2 oz.) charge of FFg.

A dram is 1/16 ounce, or 27.34375 grains.
A half-ounce is 218.75 grains.


But try finding 218.75 on a BP measure. Use 220.


ETA: This load is NOT intended for use with a projectile!

__________________
Where do we go from here?

Buy a handful of the all-brass 10ga empty cases from one of the places like Track of the Wolf or Dixie.
They are not cheap, but the cases if handled carefully will literally last forever, especially with blank loads.
5 or 6 would be plenty in my opinion as they can reloaded quickly with simple homemade tools right on scene if needed.

You can use commercial 10ga hunting round cases, but everything around will be plastic now.
Loading plastic shotshell cases w/black powder makes for real mess in most instances as the high ignition/burn temp of the BP melts the plastic walls of the case (and plastic wads if you use them also).

It leaves the melted plastic streaked and stuck to the walls of the bore of the shotgun,,cannon in this case.
Plus it will make the cases themselves usable for one or maybe two reloadings depending on mfg'r. Some are worse than others.

I have found that in 12ga, the cheap Remington black cased 'Gun Club' cases do not melt and are usable but only for one loading as they are crispy burnt on the inner walls afterwards. But they do work. No melted plastic from the case inside the bore. They are the only one I've found.
I have no experience w/10ga plastics in BP.

Cut the brass cases to the length you need, or most likely you can order them that way.

Load with a light charge of FG, or FFG black powder for a blank.
You need very little powder to make a big noise.
Even a lowly one or two dram load will produce a loud report.

Standard #209 primers are used generally but make sure any cases you buy so state and that they are not 'berdan' primed.
Berdan primers are hard to find and not easy to work with for the occasional reloader.

Some modern all brass cases take a standard Large Rifle or Large Pistol primer and will so state.

Commercial over powder wads (hard cardboard) are available in the right diameter to compress and hold the powder in place.
Or common newspaper will do for blank cartridges.
Sometimes the newspaper will shred a bit upon firing and bits of it will burn so be mindful of that.

Don't attempt to make any blanks w/ smokeless powder.
Black powder can be hard to find off the shelf in most places but some searching will usually find you some.
The BP substitutes are used for blank cartridges two (many think that is the ONLY thing they are good for!).


Have fun!

OK, you guys have gone about it in a different way than I've managed. I've got one of the Winchester cannons. I've even got the case (that says "one breech loading cannon" on the side. Winchester makes the blanks and you can order them through any decent sized retailer that has an account. Not cheap, but I don't recall them being that expensive. As I recall, I had to make my own for a few years. Then I managed to buy 2 boxes of the real thing. I worked my way along firing a few a year. Then one day I stumbled on a gun shop that would order 2 more boxes for me. Yes, I had to pay in advance. Not a biggie. I haven't started on those..yet.

I've got one of the Napolean III or whatever the Dixie Gun works kits were from the 1970s. I put it together and it was a pain. We were cutting wads from cardboard with a scissors and a buddy who liked blowing things up sat down with us. He asked what the problem was and I explained that it had an oddball bore size. He asked what it should be, so I said 12 gauge. He said when we're done, loan him the barrel for a day. It came back nice and smooth, 12 gauge. That was the day muzzle loading became sweet. we also drilled the fuse hole a little bigger for easier insertion. Loading is easy now. Just stick a fuse in, dump 3 or so caps of 4f black down the bore and follow with a plastic power piston or other brand poly wad. Tamp it down as hard as you dare. From a little loading experience, you learn. Then almost every shot gives you a smoke ring. The sign of a good charge. Its often louder than a 10 ga.

__________________
Dick Burg

I think I know the one you're talking about. .69 caliber originally?

You had me up until you said "4F."

__________________
Where do we go from here?

That one is so cool

RBG Cannons shows blanks in stock.

10 Ga. blanks also show up at gun shows from time to time. Which cannon do you have? Mine's the first variation with the pencil barrel.

__________________
"I also cook."

I'm not shooting anything but a plastic piston. If I were loading any kind of shot charge, or a big chunk of lead, it would be dangerous. I got to that by trial and error. Took an old white sheet (don't use one your wife will ever see again.) Using coarse powder you almost always find some unburned out on the sheet (out in front of the cannon.) When you use fff or ffff you never see much "solid waste".

Remember I'm shooting blanks! I can't find blank powder so I selected the closest thing I could get. Those well off to the side and consuming adult beverages are a good jury. They can hear the difference. I've never weighed a power piston, but its insignificant.

__________________
Dick Burg

No problem, if it works for you . . .

I've just had a distrust of 4F as anything but a loose primer beaten into me by my elders(?) in the artillery forums.

__________________
Where do we go from here?

The good news - it is easy to find suppliers of this ammo by doing an internet search on the code "XBP10"

The bad news - it looks like everybody is "out of stock"

few years ago my neighbor ask if i could use a box of old reloading stuff. told him guess so . it is probally over 100 years old. most for 10 gage about 45 all brass hulls. winchester no.10 umc club and wra rival all 10 gageand all kind of reloading things dont know what they were

I checked out the supply of 10 gauge blanks on the internet just a few days ago. Plenty to be had at around $48.00 per box of 25 plus shipping. I was lucky to have bought a couple of boxes years ago at a much better price. So I went into my ammo storage and found the box and 4/5's I had squirreled away years ago. Some fun on the 4th. Ammo prices really are just crazy these days.

If you go with the all brass cases, after shooting them and before the day is over, knock out the primer and soak them in windshild washer fluid. If you use water they will be stained black. After soaking over night, rinse with water and use a small bottle or bore brush and scrub inside and out. Clean primer pocket and air dry. Ready to reload when dry!

I have had 45-70 cases that were stained from black powder and dropped in water I could never get them clean. I put about 40 in a Thumblers Tumbler with the wet stainless steel pins, Lema-shine, dish soap, and hot water for about 3 hours. They came out looking like new.

Ivan

I know this is an old post, but I felt that it might be helpful to add some information to it. I actually found it through a google search for cannon blanks. I have been asked to load for an RBG Cannon Co., Coast Guard Signal cannon. It uses 10 ga hulls. The only shell I had for it was a single Winchester Blank. That measured about 2 7/8”. Cutting open the roll crimp revealed a 1/2” fiber wad over a full case of what appeared to be FF black powder. (Approx 2 Drams).
Recrimped and it worked very well.
So, I began with my own primed 3 1/2” pre primed 10 ga hulls I had on hand. With a starting load of 1 dram and a cardboard overshot wad set well over the powder then tissue to fill out the hull for another overshot card for the crimp the effect was perfect for a smaller venue. (Also tested just hand pressing the overshot card onto the powder and firing without a crimp. Same effect if you don’t have a press.). A full 2 Dram load also works with a bit more smoke and noise. Adjust tissue filler if necessary for height on top of the hard 10 ga card wad.
Both loads are easy if you can find the FF Goex or other BP substitute.
I found very little burning or damage of the plastic cheddite hulls that came from Balistic Products. My guess is that they would be good for at least a few firings. Their roll crimper requires a bit of a touch with a hand drill but is easy in a drill press.
Of Note the owner of RGB Cannon Co. was extreme helpful with history on this early model made by his company.

Long ago I lived a short distance down the beach from a swanky yacht club on Lake Erie just east of Cleveland in Lake County. They had sailboat races several times each month during the summer and used one of those Winchester 10 Gauge cannons to start each race, pretty sure they used paper case shells. They put out a mighty BOOM. It was a good place for picking up girls, but I was nowhere near being in their class. I was always broke. They weren't. Sometime it worked OK.

When I was 10 or 11, I found an old 10 gauge cannon in my grandmother’s attic. My Dad thought it was cool too, so he bought me 2 boxes of shells and let me bring it back to suburban Connecticut. He was crazy to do that. It’s a miracle I didn’t get arrested or blow it up. I did have a LOT of fun with it over the next few years.

I still have it and set it off once a year. My friends have a Twelfth Night party on a private beach in Kennebunk every year, and I guarantee you can hear that thing all the way from Ogunquit to Biddeford

BP BLANKS for the 10ga cannon can be made up with 12ga hulls.

The 12ga hull will obviously chamber and the rim will engage the 10ga rim recess of the cannons chamber.

There is very little dia difference betw the 12 and the larger 10 chambers.
It was very common for 12ga shot loads to be used in 10ga SxS's in the distant past when times were hard and ammo not as easily available.

The 10ga generates even lower chamber pressures than the 12ga does when speaking of shotloaded shells.
BP blank rounds are very low pressure.

With the 12 in a 10 blank loads, the hulls may expand a bit to the 10ga chamber especially ahead of the 'brass' head.
But they work very nicely and from personal experience with a Winchester Cannon, these 12ga reloaded blanks do the same job as the 10ga blanks.
Hard card over powder and double stacked fibre wad with some hard wad pressure will insure a good report.
No need to pack anything on top of that and crimp them really. You can, but that is just adding more 'wad pressure', though very little compared to adding another fibre wad.

Pyrodex RS works well.
I had some elderly Clean Shot that did a good job but seemed to need at least a 3dram load and heavy wad pressure to get a good report...at least in our experience. Maybe the 'elderly' issue was at work there.
Good old BP is great, but it's getting tough to find.

I had thought about using 12 gauge shells. When I was a kid I knew a guy who had a 10 gauge double gun. I remember him talking about wrapping tape around 12 gauge shells to make them fit better to use in his gun. Never saw him shoot it.

For the real McCoy .........
How to Make Black Powder: 14 Steps (with Pictures) - wikiHow

__________________
Forum consigliere

I have wrapped paper or aluminum foil and used cellophane tape. I eventually purchased a set of 10 to 12 ga. adapters from Gaugemate. Larry

Of course, 12 gauge wads would not seal well in a 10 gauge bore. I wonder how shot velocity and patterning are affected? Had not heard of 12 to 10 adaptors before. Never had a 10 gauge gun so not an issue for me.

Found these in my collection There are 18 left in the box. Wonder if they would work, as they say not for fire arms.

Attached Images

	BP12Ga 1.jpg (47.1 KB, 16 views)
	BP12Ga 2.jpg (51.1 KB, 13 views)
	BP12Ga 3.jpg (38.7 KB, 13 views)
	BP12Ga 4.jpg (47.1 KB, 14 views)
	BP12Ga 5.jpg (31.3 KB, 11 views)

__________________
USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

An Echometer is a device for measuring fluid levels in oil wells. Works sort of like sonar. Those I have seen all used .45 Colt blanks. Maybe 10 gauge shells work better for measurements in deeper wells. I believe other depth measurement devices have now replaced the echometers that use blank cartridges. Well pumpers used them to adjust pump jack pumping rates. The oil pumping rate must be regulated so that the amount of oil being pumped out of the well over a time period is close to the amount of oil flowing into the wellbore from the formation to optimize production. So the oil level in the well should be maintained fairly constant. I had a new Echometer stolen out of my truck once.

Those shells would probably work for a salute cannon.

Once upon a time Savage made "four-tenner adapters". They were 12 in. long and adapted 12 and 20 ga. to .410.
I have cut the metal head off 16 ga. shells and put the plastic around 20 ga. and shot them 16 ga. guns. Cut the head off 12 ga. and put the plastic around 16 ga. shells and shoot in 12 ga.
The average shooter won't notice any difference in them or the correct shell on the skeet field or most sporting clay shots. Larry

I also once had one of those four-tenner inserts, but I never used it so I can't say how well it performed. Mine was short, not much longer than the length of the .410 shell, maybe 6". I believe there were similar .410 adaptors available that were longer. To the best of my recollection, I have never owned nor even fired a .410 shotgun.

Not a .410'er. This is a .12 ga to .32-20 Winchester adapter.

Attached Images

12gaadapter.jpg (33.7 KB, 6 views)

__________________
USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

Check out the Little Skeeters website - they have a bunch of adapters, including 10 gauge to 12 gauge. If 12 gauge blank ammo is easier to find, they might be worth your while.

There are other companies doing sub-gauge inserts, just do an internet search.

__________________
My sgntr is mor thn 30 chrctrs

I don't have any of them, but there is a variety of rifle and handgun caliber adapters that can be used in shotguns. Once I had a nearly-new H&R 20 gauge single shot. I toyed with the thought of adding sights to it and getting a .45-70 adapter. But it never went any further than that. Still, the idea of converting an old double shotgun to a double .45-70 Elephant rifle remains interesting.