Need more information on a DWM Luger

schutzen-jager · Oct 23, 2019

only have two accessible this morning - one serial # 87x has a character that might be a letter of the German alphabet - the other serial # 863X has nothing except number - both are original finish + all matching - will try to dig out my others this weekend - really do not believe that it is a suffix , not located on same line as number , could it be an inspector or have other factory meaning -

Kurusu · Oct 23, 2019

schutzen-jager said:
only have two accessible this morning - one serial # 87x has a character that might be a letter of the German alphabet - the other serial # 863X has nothing except number - both are original finish + all matching - will try to dig out my others this weekend - really do not believe that it is a suffix , not located on same line as number , could it be an inspector or have other factory meaning -

The suffix is not in line with the serial number. it is below in the front of the frame.

The letters look like on this chart:

All P.08 Mausers from 1942 should have a suffix. They carried over from 1941 (the no suffix was late in 1941) and did not run the whole alphabet before production ended.

It is not impossible to have a no suffix 1942 mind you. in 1942 Mauser used up most of the parts they still had in inventory, so they could very well have assembled a pistol with parts made in 1941.

Simson-Suhl · Oct 23, 2019

Lugers were produced in three different countries by seven different manufactures.
Germany: DWM, Erfurt Arsenal, Simson, Krieghoff and Mauser.
England: Vickers, (For the Dutch).
Switzerland: Swiss model.
Calibers: 9mm Parabellum, 7.65 Parabellum, and 45acp for the US Pistol Trials.

schutzen-jager · Oct 23, 2019

Kurusu said:
The suffix is not in line with the serial number. it is below in the front of the frame.

The letters look like on this chart:

All P.08 Mausers from 1942 should have a suffix. They carried over from 1941 (the no suffix was late in 1941) and did not run the whole alphabet before production ended.

It is not impossible to have a no suffix 1942 mind you. in 1942 Mauser used up most of the parts they still had in inventory, so they could very well have assembled a pistol with parts made in 1941.

clearly states on top that this is the opinion of Don Hallock author of Luger book -the Davis book clearly states that military serial numbers repeat except for the Krieghoff + Swiss models -

schutzen-jager · Oct 23, 2019

Simson-Suhl said:
Lugers were produced in three different countries by seven different manufactures.
Germany: DWM, Erfurt Arsenal, Simson, Krieghoff and Mauser.
England: Vickers, (For the Dutch).
Switzerland: Swiss model.
Calibers: 9mm Parabellum, 7.65 Parabellum, and 45acp for the US Pistol Trials.

also documented are at least 6 experimental baby lugers produced in .32 + .380 acp - Mitchell Arms + the Luger Man also produced some here in the U.S.

Kurusu · Oct 23, 2019

schutzen-jager said:
clearly states on top that this is the opinion of Don Hallock author of Luger book -the Davis book clearly states that military serial numbers repeat except for the Krieghoff + Swiss models -

Of course numbers repeat. They only go from 1 to 9999.

that is why they had the sufixxes. In the first place.

Edit. If you read my edit on post # I already stated Krieghoff just ran all their serial numbers in sequence.

Swiss models are not P.08. And, all foreign contracts had their own numbering from 1 to the end of the contract. The exceptions are. The Portuguese contract of 5000 pistols in 1942 where the pistols were simply diverted from the German Army deliveries because they were closing shop for the P.08, and would not make aditional pistols (they fall in the "m" suffix of byf 42. And the 1942 Bulgarian contract for the very same reasons( they are in the "m" and the "n" suffix) .

Kurusu · Oct 23, 2019

Simson-Suhl said:
Lugers were produced in three different countries by seven different manufactures.
Germany: DWM, Erfurt Arsenal, Simson, Krieghoff and Mauser.
England: Vickers, (For the Dutch).
Switzerland: Swiss model.
Calibers: 9mm Parabellum, 7.65 Parabellum, and 45acp for the US Pistol Trials.

Well, Vickers wasn't exactly a "Luger producer". They just assembled DWM furnished parts and submited them to the British Proof House to make the 1922 Dutch contract possible. It was a way around the Versailles treaty that left everybody happy (except the French

).

Andyd · Oct 23, 2019

Vickers was in the Luger business because a member of the Loewe family was on their board of directors.

schutzen-jager · Oct 29, 2019

Andyd said:
Schürzenjäger,

Mauser marked all military pistols with the 1 - 9999 and suffix letter from 1934 with the G date on, when the Wehrmacht was expanded from 100,000 to 300,000 men.

according to the Aaron Davis , John Walter , + Schroeder books not all Mauser military models had a suffix - BYF 42 some had them some did not like mine - BYF 42 / KU none at all were stamped with a suffix - code 42 with year code 39 ,40 , 41 , + 42 were delivered with or with out a suffix -

Kurusu · Oct 30, 2019

schutzen-jager said:
according to the Aaron Davis , John Walter , + Schroeder books not all Mauser military models had a suffix - BYF 42 some had them some did not like mine - BYF 42 / KU none at all were stamped with a suffix - code 42 with year code 39 ,40 , 41 , + 42 were delivered with or with out a suffix -

Of course not all military have a suffix. Every time they reached 9999 on the z suffix they went back to 1 with no suffix. It happened several times during their production run. Last time it happened in Mauser production was late in 1941.

The "ku" lugers are a case apart. General consense is they were assembled in 1943 (probably by Krieghoff), using leftover Mauser mixed parts to complete the Luftwaffe contract.

schutzen-jager · Oct 30, 2019

Krieghoff was exclusive supplier to the Luftwaffe because Goering had a vested financial interest in the company - the KU was the coastal flying service originally not part of Luftwaffe [ during pilot shortages some were put in Luftwaffe units ] - the KU's were produced in both 1941 + 1942 - no documented evidence that they were assembled by Kreighoff , the markings on them that are often credited to Kreighoff were actually Kustenfliegerstafflen proof markings -

Kurusu · Oct 30, 2019

schutzen-jager said:
Krieghoff was exclusive supplier to the Luftwaffe because Goering had a vested financial interest in the company - the KU was the coastal flying service originally not part of Luftwaffe [ during pilot shortages some were put in Luftwaffe units ] - the KU's were produced in both 1941 + 1942 - no documented evidence that they were assembled by Kreighoff , the markings on them that are often credited to Kreighoff were actually Kustenfliegerstafflen proof markings -

There is no hard evidence about the Ku Lugers. Only speculation.

The known facts are. There were about 5000 of them. They indeed don't have suffix numbers. They have S/42; 42 and byf marked toggles.

And... I was convinced that all had 41 over the chamber.

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