Winchester M14

C

CLASSIC12

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Two months ago I saw this Winchester M14 rifle with synthetic stock at my favourite LGS. He said it was under consignment from an older gun collector. I tried to haggle the price a little to no avail (“it’s under consignment and the owner won’t accept a $ less”).

$ 3000 it is then. It took me a little while to do the paperwork for the permit since I combined a few guns, then six weeks waiting time for the permit to arrive. The rifle is now home.

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I removed the cheek rest to check underneath

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With the SA M1 loaded

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And with the father of what would become it’s successor, the AR-10

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I trained on that same type of rifle at Fort Leonard Wood, MO, in the summer of '69. The synthetic stock was the same "brown" tone and I loved it. I could take it into the shower to clean it, oil the metal parts a little and let the stock air dry - VOILA! Inspection ready rifle!

However, I see you did write M14 and your rifle has a selector switch - does the Swiss government allow anyone to own a fully automatic rifle?

That rifle would probably cost $30,000 here, not $3,000.
 
ISCS Yoda said:
....

That rifle would probably cost $30,000 here, not $3,000.
Click to expand...
My thought exactly - if you could find one.
A work colleague had an automatic weapon collection worth millions, and he had 2 M-14's, on paper from the one year Vietnam bringback amnesty, that were worth $10K each, way back in 1978.
That was my service rifle too, with a birch stock, and once I left the beater from basic and got a new one, I felt I could hit anything I could see out to 400 yds.
My last Trainfire silhouette score was 87 down out of 90 popups with that rifle.
I also much prefer the military stock profile with its slimmer fore end than the fat looking stocks that come with M1-A's.
Classic12, I'm envious!
 
IIRC no M-14s ever released for sale in the US, it has not been declared to be obsolete and because of its selective fire design the ATF classifies it as a machine gun.
What a find ! The one I was issued in BCT was an H&R/
 
How much hassle is there in Switzerland to own a full-auto rifle?

I love the thought of having a relatively rare make of M-14, but the stock is terrible looking, looks like a department store shotgun stock, no offense meant. The hardware would look awesome in a Sage EBR or McMillan stock, or even a nice walnut Boyd's OE stock.
 
I had the opportunity to fire an M-14 once.. was the rural county sheriff's squad rifle.. it confirmed my affinity for the M1A NM I currently own.. I only WISH I could have a real one for $3,000...
 
BLACKHAWKNJ said:
IIRC no M-14s ever released for sale in the US, it has not been declared to be obsolete and because of its selective fire design the ATF classifies it as a machine gun.
What a find ! The one I was issued in BCT was an H&R/
Click to expand...

Not for civilian sales anyway. A friend of mine a semi auto only on an M14 receiver that was his issued rifle as a policeman.
 
I was also at Leonard Wood in the Summer of 69.

ISCS Yoda said:
I trained on that same type of rifle at Fort Leonard Wood, MO, in the summer of '69. The synthetic stock was the same "brown" tone and I loved it. I could take it into the shower to clean it, oil the metal parts a little and let the stock air dry - VOILA! Inspection ready rifle!

However, I see you did write M14 and your rifle has a selector switch - does the Swiss government allow anyone to own a fully automatic rifle?

That rifle would probably cost $30,000 here, not $3,000.
Click to expand...
 
diyj98 said:
Not for civilian sales anyway. A friend of mine a semi auto only on an M14 receiver that was his issued rifle as a policeman.
Click to expand...

The M14 "once a machine gun always a machine gun" mantra courtesy of ATF is an interesting subject. A few years back I bought one of the relatively few Hahn Machine & Tool M14s that were given "official" ATF blessing. Shortly after Hahn made his run another fellow did the same and ATF's position was that they were still machine guns. Final configuration, such as leaving the op rod dismount cut in the rail, may have played a part.

I see converted "for real" M14s for sale at gun shows, IIRC Fulton Armory uses the heel of legally chopped receivers, so I don't know a) how knowledgeable non-ATF LE is on these things or b) how much they care.
 
The only time I saw an M-14 fired on full auto was in BCT, Fort Dix, Summer of 1967. To emphasize that it did not "kick", would not "tear your shoulder off", one of the instructors would fire it from his chin-and his crotch. They were using tracers so you could tell they weren't faking it.
There was a heavy barrel version, the M-15, that was to be the squad automatic weapon. It was approved but never put into production.
 
dsf said:
The M14 "once a machine gun always a machine gun" mantra courtesy of ATF is an interesting subject. A few years back I bought one of the relatively few Hahn Machine & Tool M14s that were given "official" ATF blessing. Shortly after Hahn made his run another fellow did the same and ATF's position was that they were still machine guns. Final configuration, such as leaving the op rod dismount cut in the rail, may have played a part.

I see converted "for real" M14s for sale at gun shows, IIRC Fulton Armory uses the heel of legally chopped receivers, so I don't know a) how knowledgeable non-ATF LE is on these things or b) how much they care.
Click to expand...

Several years ago I was offered an semi automatic M1 carbine built on a receiver marked M2. I spoke to the ATF and they gave me the “once a machine gun, always a machine gun” speech. I told them there was absolutely nothing M2 about this rifle other than the receiver used during a rebuild. They told me that it did seem silly, but the law was clear. Needless to say, I passed on the deal.
 
Several years ago I was offered an semi automatic M1 carbine built on a receiver marked M2. I spoke to the ATF and they gave me the “once a machine gun, always a machine gun” speech. I told them there was absolutely nothing M2 about this rifle other than the receiver used during a rebuild. They told me that it did seem silly, but the law was clear. Needless to say, I passed on the deal.
Click to expand...

Yes, ATF would say that. However, when I bought my first M1A it had a black fiberglass stock sans selector switch but the hole was there in the stock for the selector switch. I saw plenty of those in the Army (yes, yes, retired Navy, I'm a glutton for punishment) and the M14s I saw in the Navy for force protection were with the selector switch). Anyway, one wonders....and when I finally picked up that M1A on layaway (decades ago, I might add) the seller had switched it for a newer M1A without the hole in the stock, which pleased me.

After my 2018 fire the stock on that rifle was deformed, the rest of the gun was fine, so my FFL buddy put a mil-spec wooden stock on it. I hated it to I sold it.

The only time I saw an M-14 fired on full auto was in BCT, Fort Dix, Summer of 1967. To emphasize that it did not "kick", would not "tear your shoulder off", one of the instructors would fire it from his chin-and his crotch. They were using tracers so you could tell they weren't faking it.
Click to expand...

Yes, Sergeant Crotch was the nickname of the guy who did that whilst we were training. Funny stuff.
 
BLACKHAWKNJ said:
The only time I saw an M-14 fired on full auto was in BCT, Fort Dix, Summer of 1967. To emphasize that it did not "kick", would not "tear your shoulder off", one of the instructors would fire it from his chin-and his crotch. They were using tracers so you could tell they weren't faking it.
...
Click to expand...

ISCS Yoda said:
....
Yes, Sergeant Crotch was the nickname of the guy who did that whilst we were training. Funny stuff.
Click to expand...

Sergeant Crotch must have really gotten a lot of frequent flier miles, because I saw him do his thing in July 1964 at Ft. Jackson.
 
Last edited:
ISCS Yoda said:
Yes, ATF would say that. However, when I bought my first M1A it had a black fiberglass stock sans selector switch but the hole was there in the stock for the selector switch. I saw plenty of those in the Army (yes, yes, retired Navy, I'm a glutton for punishment) and the M14s I saw in the Navy for force protection were with the selector switch). Anyway, one wonders....and when I finally picked up that M1A on layaway (decades ago, I might add) the seller had switched it for a newer M1A without the hole in the stock, which pleased me.
Click to expand...

Unless I misread your post, you're talking about a stock and not the receiver which to the ATF is the firearm. I've had M1 carbines with M2 stocks and nothing's wrong with that. It's the receiver that the "machine gun" according to them.

On a side note, some of you AK fan probably remember the early Norincos that came over with the evil extra hole in the receiver. The ATF came out and stated those were illegal because they had once been machine gun receivers and could be converted back. I recently saw a Norinco with the evil extra hole in a local auction. Evidently someone tipped the auctioneer off and they pulled the rifle before the auction ended.
 
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