Shoot The Dog?

[cmort666]

The possibility of over-reacting and making a huge mistake also needs to be taken pretty seriously. The incident described and the OP's handling of it show how well things can work out if there is a moment to assess and respond, and someone level-headed enough to make good use of it rather than shooting first and asking questions later.

If I'm on public property or property that I lawfully occupy as an owner or renter and a dog puts me in reasonable fear of being bitten, the possible CONSEQUENCES of letting myself get bitten VASTLY outweigh the consequences of my shooting it.

It can't be said often enough: YOUR dog, YOUR responsibility. If you let it run loose, NOBODY has a duty to incur risk to avoid harming your dog. Remember, we're not even talking about the mail man lawfully coming onto your property where you keep a dog. We're talking about somebody's dog LEAVING their property to attack someone.

If your 16 year old kid kicks in my front door with a realistic looking toy gun (nevermind a real gun) in his hand, and tells me he's going to kill me, it's pretty near 100% that he's going to get shot. The law doesn't require me to read his mind. I only have to have a REASONABLE fear of imminent death or great bodily harm. If it was just a "joke", the joke's on HIM. Do you think somebody has a GREATER duty to incur risk from an attacking DOG?

As I've said, my name's NOT "Cesar Milan". I'm neither a dog trainer nor an animal behavioral specialist. If I'm on my property or a public thoroughfare and your dog launches an unprovoked attack on me or engages in behavior which a reasonable LAYMAN would interpret as such, I've got no duty except one to myself of self-preservation.

 

[cmort666]

I agree. There seem to be people that believe they understand what a dog is thinking, feeling and going to do. These same people seem to think that there is time to correct any wrong action, reaction, or aggression by a dog in order to avoid personal damage.

You often can't do that with another HUMAN with the power of speech! Some people expect every stranger that their dog comes after OFF their property to be a combination of Doctor Doolittle and a psychotherapist!

I was a lousy runner as a 21 year old infantry 2lt. I'm not one second faster at 52. I'd much rather shoot a dog at the start of an attack than to try to shoot it after LOSING a foot race with it and being bitten (and possibly held) from behind.

 

[Capt Steve]

Our Greyhound Millie, is as docile as they come. In 18 months we have only heard her bark about 6 times and by bark I mean one "woof" = one time barking. When we adopted her we signed a contract where in we agreed to keep her on a leash at all times unless she is in an enclosed area, house or fenced yard. She has never once growled at anyone or anything BUT...take a look at her jaws and teeth and you will know there is potential for serious damage. She weighs just under 70 lbs and can go from zero to 45 MPH in about four strides. If she ever got the urge to attack someone it would be a serious problem.

The point is ANY dog can be a threat, usually without much warning. We never take millie for granted and she is always on her leash when she leaves the house or yard. When we are camping I tie her leash to a 20' lead to give her more freedom of movement which she almost never uses. She cannot slip her collar as we use a a chest harness that she cannot slip out of. Though she has never shown any sign of aggression I pity the fool who tries to mess with my bride when Millie is present.

 

[jtpur]

shooting dogs

It is very hard to argue with success. You had success, but I sense you question your own actions or you would not ask for opinions... and since you did here is mine.

You were attacked and a pit bull or any dog for that matter can cause serious bodily injury and even death. You were justified in using deadly force to prevent the attack.

If you fire a warning shot someone is going to ask why....like me....and the because I was not bitten tells me that you really did not feel you were really in any danger.....so if you bullet meant for the ground had bounced off something and hit....say the five year old across the street......you may have turned an accidental shooting into a case of reckless homicide....if you aim at the dog and miss, and hit the five year old, it might make you feel horrible (I hope it would) but its certainly accidental and you lousy shooting is due to the stress of the situation...so either way its a bad situation.....you stopped the threat and you will always be Monday Morning quarterbacked regardless of the outcome....since nothing was hit....no harm no foul.....I personally think that if I have to shoot my gun I want to shoot it at the threat.....but as I said...its hard to argue with success....

 

[michael thornton]

when will he be back? will you be ready this time? or will it be a suprise? i would have put him in the dirt, i love dogs, but i will not put up with them doing that, and for sure not in MY yard!

 

[Camster]

Ok, I haven't read every response

I'm a dog lover who happens to live next to unpleasant types with pitbulls.Though I can understand your impulse to shooting a nasty dog confronting you,my thinking is what would be your options if you were not armed,as I think that line of thinking should always be primary.The answers that comes to mind would be to re-enter the car and drive next door and lean on the horn until they come out or call the police.
I wouldn't want to explain to my local PD why I discharged a pistol if other plausible options existed.....In my part of the country,I think I could kiss my PL and handguns goodbye.

 

[Kanewpadle]

I'm a dog lover who happens to live next to unpleasant types with pitbulls.Though I can understand your impulse to shooting a nasty dog confronting you,my thinking is what would be your options if you were not armed,as I think that line of thinking should always be primary.The answers that comes to mind would be to re-enter the car and drive next door and lean on the horn until they come out or call the police.
I wouldn't want to explain to my local PD why I discharged a pistol if other plausible options existed.....In my part of the country,I think I could kiss my PL and handguns goodbye.

I'm a dog lover too.

But which is going to be? Get bit? Or explain why you shot the dog?

Self preservation comes first. Dealing with the aftermath comes later.

It's no different than defending yourself with a gun against a two legged critter.

Would you let a two legged critter get close enough to harm you? If not, why let a dog do so?

Whether you shoot a dog or a human, there will still be questions asked afterward.

I would rather answer those questions than suffer injury to myself or anyone else.

 

[Camster]

I'm a dog lover too.

But which is going to be? Get bit? Or explain why you shot the dog?

Self preservation comes first. Dealing with the aftermath comes later.

It's no different than defending yourself with a gun against a two legged critter.

Would you let a two legged critter get close enough to harm you? If not, why let a dog do so?

Whether you shoot a dog or a human, there will still be questions asked afterward.

I would rather answer those questions than suffer injury to myself or anyone else.

From the OP: The dog was loose. It came around the back of the car, barking at me. I yelled a few commands at it and moved toward it but it did not back off. I then started moving up my driveway wondering what else I could do. The dog followed barking and lunged, biting at me but only getting my pant leg, which it immediately released.

I suppose that my very non confrontational side is showing in my responses.
To me,"retreat" is always an option.When retreat is not an option,then the hardware/fury can come out.
When my neighbor's pitbull came under the fence and approached me,many would say that I was within my rights to shoot it(if I was armed,which I was not)but I had the option to step into my nearby car,the neighbor came along shortly and retreived his dog, and all ended well.
I wasn't there,but it sounds as though the OP could have gotten back into his car instead of advancing.The dog is a dog-it doesn't know that it's trespassing/menacing or knowing of a warning shot.The issue is with the dog's owner.

 

[cmort666]

The issue is with the dog's owner.

Exactly, and that issue doesn't impose ANY duty on the victim to accept ANY risk from the dog which he did not himself create.

I keep hearing in various places that not defending yourself will prevent "problems" with the dog's negligent owner. Apparently the owner's dog confronting, chasing and even biting somebody does NOT (or should not) cause "problems" between the owner and the victim(s).

 

[highcotton]

We live in the country and operate a kennel for breeding Llewellin Setters. Some time ago a fellow (I did not know the guy) drove up to the kennel with a pit bull in the back of his jeep. The jeep had no top and the dog was not restrained in any way.

I had one of my Llewellins out at the time and as soon as the pit bull saw my dog he bailed out of the jeep running toward my Setter. The Setter was no match for the pit bull and in no time had a good choke hold on my dog. I asked the guy if he could get his dog to let go and he said no. I walked to my truck, that happened to be close by, and got my 357. I walked back to the dogs and put a round through the side of the pit bulls head. It's amazing how fast they turn loose when that happens.

As a pointing dog trainer I have little patience with mean, out of control dogs. And I have absolutely NO patience with them on my property trying to kill one of my dogs.

The guy loaded his dead dog up and left. I was lucky that I never heard from him again.

 

[649 Bodyguard]

How are things going nowdays? Is the dog locked up now everyday? Or have you seen him running around again? I think that information would be good to know.

 

[Camster]

We live in the country and operate a kennel for breeding Llewellin Setters. Some time ago a fellow (I did not know the guy) drove up to the kennel with a pit bull in the back of his jeep. The jeep had no top and the dog was not restrained in any way.

I had one of my Llewellins out at the time and as soon as the pit bull saw my dog he bailed out of the jeep running toward my Setter. The Setter was no match for the pit bull and in no time had a good choke hold on my dog. I asked the guy if he could get his dog to let go and he said no. I walked to my truck, that happened to be close by, and got my 357. I walked back to the dogs and put a round through the side of the pit bulls head. It's amazing how fast they turn loose when that happens.

As a pointing dog trainer I have little patience with mean, out of control dogs. And I have absolutely NO patience with them on my property trying to kill one of my dogs.

The guy loaded his dead dog up and left. I was lucky that I never heard from him again.

I don't think any member here,myself included,would disagree with your action.

 

[cmort666]

The Setter was no match for the pit bull and in no time had a good choke hold on my dog.

How's the setter doing?

 

[highcotton]

He recovered fully. Thanks for asking.

 

[redlevel]

Highcotton, the Llewellin in my avatar is from Windswept Kennels down in North Florida. I had him trained at Pea Ridge in West Tennessee. He is a perfect dog for walking or hunting off a golf cart. Love them Llews!

 

[highcotton]

Highcotton, the Llewellin in my avatar is from Windswept Kennels down in North Florida. I had him trained at Pea Ridge in West Tennessee. He is a perfect dog for walking or hunting off a golf cart. Love them Llews!

Nice looking dog...Deane has good stock in his kennel.

 

[ExplorerOne]

You mention nothing of your relationship with your neighbors or past problems. For what its worth, I think your reponse was reserved and appropriate - apparently the LEO did also. Glad things did not go bad!
As for OC, many animals on which OC is used turn bad so it is not the non-violent cure many think it is.

 

[Sarge45]

You did fine. However, the dog has already demonstrated that it will attack a human, an adult human even. Your encountered ended great. Your decision apparently was the right one. It would also have been appropriate to shoot the dog. It would be very unfortunate that the next attack by that dog may be a child that cannot fend off a deadly onslaught.

 

[Stuie]

This is my little guy (Stuie) I got him from a pitbull rescue group at the age of 8 months and now he is 7 years . He is people and dog friendly . Now its not my fault will judge him by his looks but if someone was going to do any harm to him i would defend him at any cost . Most people dont understand dogs are not born bad its the owners who make them that way . They are the one who need to be shot .

 

[cmort666]

Most people dont understand dogs are not born bad its the owners who make them that way . They are the one who need to be shot.

Unfortunately, the law doesn't typically allow that.

I don't care what kind of dog you have as long as you keep it properly under your control so that it cannot harm other people and their pets.