Shoot The Dog?

[chp]

But you can understand it ... right ?

No - not where my dog got away from me, I'm pursuing her and where she showed no aggression to the people.

 

[redlevel]

She pulled out of her collar in the front yard the other day and ran up to a couple walking their little dogs across the street.

The couple about peed their pants. . . . . .

but I would really hate for someone to shoot her in that situation. [/IMG]

But you can understand it ... right ?

No - not where my dog got away from me, I'm pursuing her and where she showed no aggression to the people.

There are a lot of folks, me included, who would consider a 125 lb dog off the leash charging toward them as certainly showing aggression. You might be pursuing the dog, but how much damage could the dog do in the 10 to 15 seconds it might take you to get there? Sorry, but if I saw a 125 lb dog charging toward me and my wife, and I had the means to stop it before it got there, I would do so.

 

[redlevel]

I have shot aggressive dogs in my yard in the past and would have shot that one.

We had a pit bull set up housekeeping in our back flower bed one summer at our rural residence. My two boys were very small. I made the mistake of trying to run it off the first time. It behaved aggressively. After it was gone I began to regret that I didn't put it down.

It returned the next day to the wallow it had made. I shot it with a 10 gauge shotgun loaded with magnum buckshot.

Unconfined dogs at rural residences may appear to be harmless and innocent, lounging in the shade of the porch during the day, but they will pack up together and roam, especially at night. Livestock may be lost.

I've shot dogs for running cattle too.

A local friend recently lost a bunch of his goats to three dogs from various neighboring places. Some thoughtless peoples' irresponsibility and negligence with their own pets amazes me.

We now live in town. Don't get me started on loathsome cats. Some of those "disappear."

God Bless Texas!!!

(Georgia, too)

 

[chp]

There are a lot of folks, me included, who would consider a 125 lb dog off the leash charging toward them as certainly showing aggression. You might be pursuing the dog, but how much damage could the dog do in the 10 to 15 seconds it might take you to get there? Sorry, but if I saw a 125 lb dog charging toward me and my wife, and I had the means to stop it before it got there, I would do so.

I hear ya - but you had to be there to understand that it was not aggression. Hard to relate over the internet . . .

 

[flop-shank]

Watch the dog's body language!

I was digging next to my house's foundation a few years ago when I heard barking on the other side of the building and my wife's frightened voice saying, "Honey there's a dog"!!!! Being that I'm a former grunt, it was bayonet time! My body pumping with adrenaline and running into battle, I was around the house in about two seconds and facing a golden retriever that was barking, but not baring it's teeth. The stupid beast was wagging it's tail the whole time. "Damn schitzo dog", is what I said, grabbed it's collar and shovel in hand hauled it over to the neighbor's house. I might be wrong, but dog's tend to give away what they are thinking better than humans with their body language. Watch the tail. This dog was a weirdo that sent mixed signals, but it's tail told me that it was no threat!

 

[cmort666]

I hear ya - but you had to be there to understand that it was not aggression. Hard to relate over the internet . . .

Would a layman who didn't know your dog consider it NOT aggressive in the situation you describe?

It is unreasonable to expect a total stranger to incur risk from a strange dog based on knowledge of that animal which the person does not and cannot possess. Nor is it reasonable to expect any random person to have knowledge of dogs or their behavior other than that they have four legs and are usually capable of barking. No one not responsible for a particular dog has ANY duty to know dogs or dog handling, nor to take risks contingent upon said knowledge. It's the duty of the person or persons in legal possession of that animal to exercise sufficient control over it such that it's not a danger to the public.

Bottom line:

• I have no legal duty to know ANYTHING about how to handle dogs.
• I have no legal duty to know your dog's personality.
• You have a duty to control that dog such that it's not a threat to third parties.

 

[geddylee10002000]

You did the right thing. I would have a conversation with my neighbor about the confrontation, although. The next time it happens it would be lethal. Got a stupid neighbor that is in about the same boat right now. Haven't had any confrontation as of yet. Wouldn't hesitate one moment to put "Rocky" down.

 

[chp]

Would a layman who didn't know your dog consider it NOT aggressive in the situation you describe?


Bottom line:

• I have no legal duty to know ANYTHING about how to handle dogs.
• I have no legal duty to know your dog's personality.
• You have a duty to control that dog such that it's not a threat to third parties.

So the answer to your question is - yes.
Sophie wanted to see the dogs the couple was walking and ran up to them and sniffed them. No other drama.

BTW - I agree with your "bottom line" statements. It is a greater responsibility to own powerful breed dogs than other breeds. Many owners - especially those who own pit bull and similar breeds as a status symbol - don't realize or accept that responsibility.

 

[redlevel]

Sophie wanted to see the dogs the couple was walking and ran up to them and sniffed them. No other drama.
.

The couple about peed their pants.

You have related two different incidents, maybe? Sounds to me like the couple did indeed fear for their safety and that of their dog.

Look, we're not trying to give you a hard time. However, you must realize not everyone realizes what a sweet, gentle dog Sophie really is, and if she breaks loose from her leash, charges another group with a leashed dog, while ignoring her owner's commands, she is subject to being shot under the right set of circumstances. Rightfully so in my opinion.

 

[chp]

You have related two different incidents, maybe? Sounds to me like the couple did indeed fear for their safety and that of their dog.

Same incident. They were scared that my dog would devour their little dogs. But Sophie ran up and smelled their dogs- that's it. This sidebar is getting stale, so I'm finished with it.

Back to the OP - I think he could have justifiably shot the dog, but he handled it just fine. It's easy to sit back behind our keyboards and say "woulda, coulda, shoulda" - but the OP'er handled the situation well at the end of the day.

 

[Hook686]

No - not where my dog got away from me, I'm pursuing her and where she showed no aggression to the people.

If you cannot understand it, then I suggest you spend extra effort securing the dog so that it does not, 'slip collar', and train your dog so you do not have to pusue it. If the dog gets shot I reckon you are then the responsible party as its owner. You and your dog need to be better trained, disiplined and responsible I'm thinking.

 

[Wheelgunner840]

I had to read all the replies before posting this just to make sure no one has asked. Were the dog owners made aware of what had transpired? If so, what was said by you, and what was said by them? Did they start in with the "No need to pull a gun on our precious poochie!"? Did you give them an earful about having been attacked by their dog? Did any of the other neighbors have a problem with you discharging a firearm in the neighborhood?


BTW, I think you did the right thing, but would have been justified in shooting the dog as well.


WG840

 

[Titan]

My opinion is that you acted in a way that resolved the situation and resulted in the least grief for yourself.

Killing the dog, would have caused lots more aggravation.

Having said that, if the first shot hadn't deterred the dog, I definitely would have put him down with a second shot. The risk...that you don't get a second shot. A dog attack could cause you to drop the gun and end up getting mauled before you could recover.

From a legal perspective you certainly would have been justified in shooting him.

Pepper spray could have done what your first shot did, but also has the potential for not working.

 

[TennTony]

I had to read all the replies before posting this just to make sure no one has asked. Were the dog owners made aware of what had transpired? If so, what was said by you, and what was said by them? Did they start in with the "No need to pull a gun on our precious poochie!"? Did you give them an earful about having been attacked by their dog? Did any of the other neighbors have a problem with you discharging a firearm in the neighborhood?


BTW, I think you did the right thing, but would have been justified in shooting the dog as well.


WG840

Wheelgunner,

I have not discussed the incident with the neighbors in question. I let the police handle that discussion. In the past I have stopped to help them move heavy items when I saw them struggling, and was underwhelmed by the lack of thanks. Conversely, the neighbors have not come over to talk with me.

I did talk to the other neighbors in my cove, and all supported my actions. One woman related that she told the owner she should not let her dogs out "off leash" because of the elderly residents and small children living in the cove, to no effect. No one said they thought I had jeopardized them or had any issue with the discharge. One of the reasons I did not shoot the dog was I had not heard of anyone having been bitten previously, and idiotic as it sounds, I would only have shot the dog if it had actually bitten me. No one I talked with knew of the dog biting anyone.

This was the only time I had seen the dog outside of the fence without the owner. I still believe I would have been bitten if I had simply tried walking away. I have lived with and encountered too many dogs, including other Pit Bulls, to confuse aggresive and playful behaviors.

Again, I appreciate all the feedback given by so many Forum members. This has been a very interesting and educational discussion.

 

[cmort666]

One of the reasons I did not shoot the dog was I had not heard of anyone having been bitten previously, and idiotic as it sounds, I would only have shot the dog if it had actually bitten me.

To me, that sounds like, "I would only have shot the mugger if he'd stabbed or shot me."

Could you support your family without the use of one or more of your limbs? What if the dog latched onto your crotch? Do the neighbors have enough insurance or assets to support you when you can't work? How much is your ability to work, walk, type, have sex and reproduce worth to you? Have the neighbors got that much money? I doubt it.

It's always your choice, but I don't think you take the possibility of PERMANENT injury seriously enough.

 

[walnutred]

I hear ya - but you had to be there to understand that it was not aggression. Hard to relate over the internet . . .

I think I understand what your saying. One of my neighbors had a pair of pit bull mixes. One night I heard a commotion and went on the back porch to find both dogs in the back yard seemingly attacking my daughters cats. When I stepped out on the porch one dog ran and the other one turned at me and growled.

The next morning my son helped me load the caucus into the bed of my truck. The dog that turned tail still comes over almost daily and plays with our two small dogs and we've never had a bit of trouble with it. It looks mean as all get out and when you pull into our drive if it's there it will bark, but it's just a bark, not a threat.

Walking our dogs we've had neighbor dogs come charging out barking. Frankly I tend to watch our dogs reaction to interpret the intent. If they are standing with ears perked and tails wagging I know it's just a dog greeting. If our dogs cringe I'll have one hand on my pistol while I see what will develop.

 

[Kanewpadle]

I can't second guess Wheelgunner but only because I wasn't there.

I can tell you that I thought I knew the difference in a dog that wants to be petted and a dog that wants to bite. I won't wait and see if I get bit first. I have experienced this first hand.

Several years ago I was waiting for a customer outside his house. He had two german shepperd mix dogs running around. The first thing he said was "your ok, they don't bite". It was a nice day out. I leaned up against my work vehicle and waited. One of the dogs approached me in a very friendly manner. He approached slowly and wagged his tail. I started to pet him on top of the head which he seemed to like. After about a minute the dog growled and bit my hand. They only thing I could do is raise my hand pulling it out of the dogs mouth. As I drew my hand up, he followed. I then realized that I was raising my hand towards my face. So I stopped and the dog grabbed my hand again. So I shoved my hand all the way into the dogs mouth and grabbed his lower jaw preventing him from putting more pressure on my hand. I then kicked him in the ribs hard. Must have broke a few because he yelped, wimpered and ran off. The owner came out and asked what happens? I told him and he apologized.

That all happened in a matter of a few seconds. It won't happen again.

 

[AirLitenewbie]

I don't think you take the possibility of PERMANENT injury seriously enough.

The possibility of over-reacting and making a huge mistake also needs to be taken pretty seriously. The incident described and the OP's handling of it show how well things can work out if there is a moment to assess and respond, and someone level-headed enough to make good use of it rather than shooting first and asking questions later.

 

[Kanewpadle]

The possibility of over-reacting and making a huge mistake also needs to be taken pretty seriously. The incident described and the OP's handling of it show how well things can work out if there is a moment to assess and respond, and someone level-headed enough to make good use of it rather than shooting first and asking questions later.

A moment?

Dogs don't have hands. They have TEETH. As illustrated in my last post, it takes less than a moment for things to turn bad. And when they turn bad how we act or react will determine the outcome.

Waiting for a dog to lunge and then bite is like drawing against a gun that is already pointed at you.

IMHO, in that situation there is no such thing as overreacting. I would rather overreact than react to late.

My outlook on this may differ from others simply because I've been bit twice already in addition to being chased and charged. It ain't fun.

 

[Hook686]

I agree. There seem to be people that believe they understand what a dog is thinking, feeling and going to do. These same people seem to think that there is time to correct any wrong action, reaction, or aggression by a dog in order to avoid personal damage.

Well I'm a disabled old man. I've been bit when I was a lot younger and in better shape than I am now. I'll not take the chance that Fido is really just a friendly dog and would not hurt a fly. If you value your dog, keep it on your property, or on a leash. If you are not responsible enough to do that, why whine if it gets shot when closing in on a stranger ?