Shoot The Dog?

[WoodsCustom]

When I was a Fire Chief, we responded to a 62 year old male possibly having a heart attack. WHen I rolled up on the scene, the guy was setting on his front porch. All the while we were treating him, there was a dog inside barking like crazy, Mean barking.

We loaded him in the Ambulance and he said "Hay Chief, would you please let my dog out of the house?" I said sure thing buddy, but he sure sounds mean. The guy said, "Because he IS mean."

Oh Great....

I sent the rest of my Department back to quarters and it left me and my Station Captain. We walked up to the door and the dog was giving it hell. I pulled out my Glock 22 and my Captain asked if I was going to shoot it.

I told him.."Only if he grabs ahold of me, then I am going to let him have it."

I opened the door like Clint Eastwood did in the movie Outlaw Josie Wales did when he was at the trading post.

The big black mean ass barking dog was standing in the middle of the kitchen. He turned, tucked tail and ran to another room. I locked and shut the door and walked away. My Captain said "You ain't going to let him out." I said....Its your turn now. If you want him, go drag him out.

We drove away.

WC

"I radio'd the ambulance and told them to tell the guy that his dog was uncooperative and we left him inside." They said he laughed.

 

[seattle911]

Had my first self defense use of a CCL gun tonight. Pulled into my driveway at approx. 9:15 p.m. and was confronted with a neighbor's pit bull. I live in a cul de sac and the back gate was open on a neighbor's yard a few doors away. The dog was loose. It came around the back of the car, barking at me. I yelled a few commands at it and moved toward it but it did not back off. I then started moving up my driveway wondering what else I could do. The dog followed barking and lunged, biting at me but only getting my pant leg, which it immediately released. At that point I drew my gun, 3.5" .45 ACP. The dog was about 5 feet away. Considering my options I chose to fire one round into my front lawn, about 3 feet from the dog. The dog, of course, turned tail. I went in the house and called the police to report the incident. The incident was written up and deemed justified. The responding officer asked why I didn't shoot the dog.

My reasoning was I had not actually been bitten and my pants were not even torn. I felt the dog would try to bite me again. I was certain the noise & muzzle flash of a 230 grain Hydra-Shok would send the dog running. I am interested in opinions, especially from LEOs: Should I have shot the dog?

I go to great lengths to avoid killing things unless I plan to eat them. I think that you did the right thing. You avoided all of the hassles that come from destroying somebody's property. People sue over everything these days and although you might have very likely prevailed in a civil suit, think of the money it might have cost you in attorney fees, lost time at work, etc.
Have no second thoughts.

 

[Faulkner]

I go to great lengths to avoid killing things unless I plan to eat them. I think that you did the right thing. You avoided all of the hassles that come from destroying somebody's property. People sue over everything these days and although you might have very likely prevailed in a civil suit, think of the money it might have cost you in attorney fees, lost time at work, etc.
Have no second thoughts.

You know, I can appreciate your consideration and compasion, but sometimes it just needs killing to make the problem go away. The original poster has just scared the dog off this time so it can hassle it's next victim . . . which might be a kid or some nice defenseless lady.

 

[borntoraisehogs]

I am glad you didn't shoot the dog . If I was the owner I would be so ashamed and grateful that you didn't kill him when you appeared to be justified , that I would do what ever it took to get the animal out of the vicinity and make every effort to make you aware I knew you are a kind and brave person . I hope he tries to be the kind of neighbor you are .. Pit bulls need love and attention and absolute control . Absentee pack leader does not get it with Pits . They can not be left unattended in neighborhoods . If the owner does not take immediate , like already did it to get the animal away to guarantee you never see it again , he does not deserve such a wonderful animal .

 

[jimonfly]

Man, this has been a really good thread. I like reading everyone's opinions and it gets me thinking again about what I would do.

I'm a real estate appraiser and have spent many years walking around neighborhoods with a clipboard, measuring tape and camera, with a pistol somewhere on me. Early on, I was talking with a k9 officer who told me that the easiest thing to use was the flat side of my clipboard. He said stand your ground and hold it out so it is flat to the dog's nose. It will mess up his depth perception when he lunges and will just hit his nose on the clipboard. That should give me time to find an alternative. I only had to do that once. It worked well and gave me time to get my hand on my gun before the owner called him off. On another occasion, I had a 2,000 pound bull jump a fence while I was measuring a barn. Needless to say, I dropped the clipboard, tape and camera, forgot about the gun, and ran like hell!

We've had several neighbors with "problem" dogs. One had three English bulldogs (I have one), one of which was very aggressive. It attacked several neighbors and dogs before being taken away and put down. Luckily no one was seriously hurt, and the owner paid the vet and medical bills in all cases, from what I've heard.

Another was a released child molester who somehow ended up in the house behind me, separated by only a wood privacy fence. He had two trained attack Rottweilers that he used for intimidation, having been run out of several neighborhoods previously. He and his girlfriend would walk their dogs every morning, and had total control over them. I was very impressed. However, every time I ran the weed eater along the fence line, both dogs would charge the fence, and even broke through one time. A quick smack on the nose with the 5,000 rpm weed eater took care of that. Luckily, their house was foreclosed on and they were forced to move without serious incidents, with the dogs. (He did get a good look at my AR15 one day when he peeked his head over the fence while my daughters were in the pool.)

I guess my reaction would be based on the factors at that time. I have no problem with shooting a dog if I feel threatened, but at the same time I think retreat would be my first choice. I always look out for potential threats when I get in/out of the truck, go out, etc. I carry a walking stick when we walk the neighborhood, a 6D cell mag-lite and SureFire light at night, and usually my Kel-Tec in the pocket. But every time I've had a dog come up on me, it was very sudden and unexpected. I guess I look more for human threats than canine, or bovine. Curiously, I was looking at the bull when he started his charge. It took him all of 2 seconds to get to the fence, he was in the air for a good 30 seconds (I swear!), then everything was a blur until I reached the barn door.

Anyway, enjoyed reading all posts. Hope I never have to pull my gun on anything but paper.

 

[cmort666]

I am glad you didn't shoot the dog . If I was the owner I would be so ashamed and grateful that you didn't kill him when you appeared to be justified , that I would do what ever it took to get the animal out of the vicinity and make every effort to make you aware I knew you are a kind and brave person.

Unfortunately by my observation, people who allow their animals to go after people tend to either not care what their animals do, or actually LIKE to frighten others.

Vicious dogs are often a status symbol for stupid people and especially stupid criminals. Expecting them to be responsible in that ONE narrow aspect of their lives when the other 99% is a train wreck, is simply not reasonable.

 

[flop-shank]

I like dog's as much as the next guy, but just like there are people that need to be shot, there also are dogs that need to be shot. Some dogs aren't in the least bit nice or friendly and are a complete menace to society. Do not confuse them with the sweetheart dogs that you have known and loved.

 

[old tanker]

Last dogs I shot were three mutts trying to rip open the sack of a cow that was calving. An SAA in .44 WCF was all I had handy but it killed two of them and I heard the third yelp but failed to anchor him. Never reported anything, never heard more about it.

 

[cmort666]

I like dog's as much as the next guy, but just like there are people that need to be shot, there also are dogs that need to be shot. Some dogs aren't in the least bit nice or friendly and are a complete menace to society. Do not confuse them with the sweetheart dogs that you have known and loved.

And to this I will add, if you let your dog run free and it puts other people in reasonable fear of being bitten, their ONLY duty is to protect themselves and their loved ones. They have no duty to either be dog psychologists or animal control officers. They don't have ANY duty to know whatever arcane techniques for nonlethal animal control that you THINK you know. Expecting total strangers to put themselves at risk by assuming that your threatening dog is "harmless" is the height of arrogance and narcissism.

Do not pretend to care about your animals if YOU create the circumstances by which others feel that they must harm them in order to protect themselves and their famlies.

 

[borntoraisehogs]

You and Cesar Milan are right . It is always the people .

 

[BigRich315]

In this situation I believe you handled it perfectly. With no initial injury you used minimal force and ended the altercation. The biggest thing is that there is now a record of the dog being agressive. God forbid this happens again, there is a better case for ridding the neighborhood of a real danger

 

[KCop]

This post has been an interesting read. Even brothers in law enforcement have posted varying replies.
In the city in which I worked, pit bulls were so prevalent, the city council adopted an ordinance with requirements for proof of liability insurance, standards for fencing, cages, signing on the home, etc. The county also has a leash law. Most law abiding citizens tried their best to comply. The drug dealers and gangs kept unlicensed pits loose in the houses. Illegal dog fights were held, and often the injured animals received no veterinary treatment. Almost weekly, officers were put in situations where pits were involved. Infrequently, some were deliberately set upon officers and had to be shot.
You did what you believed was best for you in the few seconds you had to make a decision. I was pleased to read the police were contacted immediately. Starting a paper trail on the offending owner was important in the aftermath and for the future should it become necessary to cite/prosecute the dog's owner.

 

[Andy Griffith]

I don't care what kind/type/size/species of animal or who owns it that tries to attack me or cause me or my loved ones harm- the threat will be neutralized.

 

[Quigar57]

We had a neighbors dog come through the screen on our sliding door one summer and our shepard proceeded to let it know how un-welcome it was. We separated to dogs and I drug the neighbors dog back to their house shotgun in hand to inform them that if this happened again the problem would be solved with buckshot.

These same neighbors also claim that our dog once tried to attack their son. The rope it was tied out on while I was working outside broke and the dog went after him if was about 20 ft long and I was able to grab it before the dog got near him. A few weeks later and a new beefier rope I heard my dog carrying on and looked out from the shed to see him on his hind legs barking toward my neighbors, then I see the neighbor boy hiding were his parents can't see him throwing a ball in the air saying here kitty kitty. I took my dog in and proceeded to tell my neighbors that their son was out back teasing my 150lb Shepard. This kid is not that bright, but wasn't been a problem after that. Max my Shepard has since passed on.

 

[Reloader]

Just because missed you with a bite, is no reason you should miss him..

 

[Tom Beavert]

Shoot/no shoot

In any situation, none of will ever know what would have happened if we did the 'other thing'.
We may look back and say what we did do was right/wrong/whatever. Think about it, learn from it, but don't worry about it.
You did several things right. 1) you were armed 2) you were legal 3)you took action 4) you called it in.
Good onya
Be well
Tom B

 

[Hook686]

you did the right thing not shooting the dog. I cant see myself shooting any dog even if i get bit, I love pits and own one. My dog has gotten lose countless times now(shes sneaky and fast) The last time she ran right for a family walking down the street but all she did was try to lick them to death, thank God. Now if my dog is getting attacked by another I will have no problem shooting the other dog.

Then you could understand someone shooting your dog, since it sometimes gets out.

 

[Hook686]

... but I would really hate for someone to shoot her in that situation.

But you can understand it ... right ?

 

[bmcgilvray]

I have shot aggressive dogs in my yard in the past and would have shot that one.

We had a pit bull set up housekeeping in our back flower bed one summer at our rural residence. My two boys were very small. I made the mistake of trying to run it off the first time. It behaved aggressively. After it was gone I began to regret that I didn't put it down.

It returned the next day to the wallow it had made. I shot it with a 10 gauge shotgun loaded with magnum buckshot.

Unconfined dogs at rural residences may appear to be harmless and innocent, lounging in the shade of the porch during the day, but they will pack up together and roam, especially at night. Livestock may be lost.

I've shot dogs for running cattle too.

A local friend recently lost a bunch of his goats to three dogs from various neighboring places. Some thoughtless peoples' irresponsibility and negligence with their own pets amazes me.

We now live in town. Don't get me started on loathsome cats. Some of those "disappear."

 

[AirLitenewbie]

While I think you could be easily forgiven (by me, anyway) for shooting the dog if you had, the action you chose was absolutely the best one -- resolving the situation with the least force required.

There have been some posts suggesting that the dog should have been shot in order to keep an obvious problem from recurring later, and possibly involving other targets. I see the logic of that, while getting nervous at the thought of ending a life for assumed future misdeeds, rather than based on previous experience that shows a pattern. That seems a very slippery slope...