New competition in town - Mossberg 22LR

[grimreaper21]

oh no argument there, love my 15-22 all day, every day. but the 416 D does look pretty. considering i would probably never spend the $2000+ for just the 5.56 upper receiver it would be fun to play with a 22lr version (thats what we're all doing here anyway). although im not sure if that one suffers from all the typical umarex downfalls.

 

[GeoffSFAs10]

and considering it has the H&K name i'm suprised it sells under $600. although i think its another umarex (barf) build.

yeah, coming off H&K's website, its a Umarex. However they claim that the dust cover is functional and the bolt catch will hold it open on last round. it does look neat atleast. no price to be seen though

 

[Brett248Vista]

If you must have the "look" install a Tacticool22 barrel nut adapter, install a low profile gas block, a floating indexed RIS and some HK stickers.. There ya have it

 

[tacticool22]

The H&K 416 D145RS is around $600.00 and for all intents and puposes looks just like the Colt/Umarex version. With a little different molding and branding. They use the identical magazines. They both have last round bolt hold feature. Oh yeah, the H&K dust cover stays shut, wow, thats worth a hundred bucks.

 

[Snowbandit]

I've got the Colt version..... yeah, I know, but the S&W wasn't available when I bought mine and it has worked good. If I had it to do over again, or get a chance to do it again, I would look seriously at the H&K even if it is more expensive. Both Colt and H&K are made by Walther and imported by Umarex.

My grandkids have been having a ball with the Colt and P-22. The Walther stuff is good for starting off the young ones with and that's the most important to me right now.

 

[saabsquad]

EPIC FAIL!

How hard would it have been to make the carry handle removable? Seriously! I'm sure it's a great little plinkster, but come on! They've really limited their market by doing something stupid like that, in my little opinion. Not everybody likes the old school carry handle look.

Also, way to make the magazine as lame as possible. I know it's just a plinkster platform, but it's even worse than the Ruger! At least the banana clip in the Ruger TRIES to look cool. This fails on all counts, again IMHO.

S&W, thank you for making a great rifle.

 

[reelman]

what doesn't it? explain to me why you think guns are manufactured with longer barrel lengths than others? if it made no difference we could all use 6'' barrels on our super compact carbines. why put a 29'' barrel on a M82 when you could easily use a 16'' one right?

This is just scary that someone actually thinks this! They make longer barrels because they need a longer barrel to burn all (or most) the powder and increase velocity. A M82 with a 16" barrel would be shooting out most of it's powder un-burnt and it's velocity would be more like that of a 50 Beowolf. A .22 does not need an 18" barrel to burn all it's powder.

And with all things being equal a shorter barrel will hypothetically be more accurate than a longer barrel for the simple reason that the bullet is in the barrel for a shorter time so there is less time for the barrel to move. Look at bench rest guns, they all use short barrels

 

[Bart 44]

This is just scary that someone actually thinks this! They make longer barrels because they need a longer barrel to burn all (or most) the powder and increase velocity. A M82 with a 16" barrel would be shooting out most of it's powder un-burnt and it's velocity would be more like that of a 50 Beowolf. A .22 does not need an 18" barrel to burn all it's powder.

And with all things being equal a shorter barrel will hypothetically be more accurate than a longer barrel for the simple reason that the bullet is in the barrel for a shorter time so there is less time for the barrel to move. Look at bench rest guns, they all use short barrels

Glad you said that.....I didn't want to take the time to type it.

Dennis.

 

[saabsquad]

This is just scary that someone actually thinks this! They make longer barrels because they need a longer barrel to burn all (or most) the powder and increase velocity..........

........And with all things being equal a shorter barrel will hypothetically be more accurate than a longer barrel for the simple reason that the bullet is in the barrel for a shorter time so there is less time for the barrel to move. Look at bench rest guns, they all use short barrels

ok, new guy wants to learn something here. I think handguns are not the most accurate guns in general. Correct me if I'm wrong. So what I'm wondering is; are handguns able to burn enough powder when the bullet leaves the barrel? You said short barrels are technically more accurate if the powder is burned off, so is this the cause for inaccuracy in say a 9mm handgun. Or is it because I can't hold the gun still enough to test it against a rifle?

 

[reelman]

ok, new guy wants to learn something here. I think handguns are not the most accurate guns in general. Correct me if I'm wrong. So what I'm wondering is; are handguns able to burn enough powder when the bullet leaves the barrel? You said short barrels are technically more accurate if the powder is burned off, so is this the cause for inaccuracy in say a 9mm handgun. Or is it because I can't hold the gun still enough to test it against a rifle?

Handguns use a faster burning powder than rifles so the powder does burn faster but in say a 5" 9mm quite a bit of un-burnt powder goes out the barrel. But accuracy has nothing to do with all the powder burning, velocity requires the powder to be burnt.

Why are handguns generally less accurate than a rifle? Good question with a lot of answers. First off yes you probably can't hold a handgun nearly as accuratly as a rifle. I know I can't and don't know many people who can. Sights on a handgun are generally pretty crude compared to rifle sights especially when you consider a scope on a rifle. Most 9mm style handguns are also not designed for utmost accuracy the way the barrel, frame and slide lock up. But if you look at what can be done to a handgun if attention is paid to the accuracy you will be amazed, just look at some of the custom 1911's!

But now take a single shot pistol like a T/C or XP100 with quality ammo and a good scope on it and see what it can do for accuracy? These things are as accurate, or more so, than most rifles.

 

[Engineer1911]

TC & AP

I have a TC and XP in 223. On almost any day I can outshoot an AR 223 or any 'deer rifle' or deer hunter at the outdoor range. Short barrel is part of the answer and phenomenal accuracy is the other part.

I've had friends shoot the TC & XP. They get up from the bench shaking their heads, and saying, "I don't believe I did that! I can never shoot my rifle that good." Three holes touching at 100 yards is very easy and with a 16" barrel.

 

[Bart 44]

Same here with my 14 inch TC Contender in .223. It shoots better than many of my full size varmint rifles.
Really fun to shoot small groups with that little gun; and with a 4x scope to boot!

Dennis.

 

[saabsquad]

Handguns use a faster burning powder than rifles so the powder does burn faster but in say a 5" 9mm quite a bit of un-burnt powder goes out the barrel. But accuracy has nothing to do with all the powder burning, velocity requires the powder to be burnt......


.......But now take a single shot pistol like a T/C or XP100 with quality ammo and a good scope on it and see what it can do for accuracy? These things are as accurate, or more so, than most rifles.

Thanks for the detailed answer! I really appreciate the info.

 

[Incredible Me]

Ugly as sin, if you ask me.. I don't like it..

I agree.

it's nice that you can mod the 15-22 however you want. (i like stuff a bit different then right out of the box)

 

[fastsw]

I have a TC and XP in 223. On almost any day I can outshoot an AR 223 or any 'deer rifle' or deer hunter at the outdoor range. Short barrel is part of the answer and phenomenal accuracy is the other part.

I've had friends shoot the TC & XP. They get up from the bench shaking their heads, and saying, "I don't believe I did that! I can never shoot my rifle that good." Three holes touching at 100 yards is very easy and with a 16" barrel.

I am looking into getting an AR. For targeting, should I go for a 24" barrel or 20" or 16"? I was leaning toward the 24".

 

[grimreaper21]

don't ask here they'll tell you 16''

 

[Rustpot]

don't ask here they'll tell you 16''

What's wrong with the 16"? A 16" bull/heavy barrel with a free float tube will probably be more than adequate for someone wanting an accurate shooter without buying full-match guns.

With a .223 you have the option for barrels over 20" for shooting match ammo that's up over 80gr. You need a longer barrel for the match sights, to get the heavier round up to max velocity, and so the slower twist rate can stabilize the heavy round.

If you're shooting 55-62gr and no heavier anything 1:8 - 1:12 will be suitable. The velocity losses from the shorter barrel don't matter when you're shooting inside 300 yards like most recreational shooters will.

The velocity losses DO matter if you're relying on hydrostatic shock alone to do the bulk of the damage to an enemy combatant at longer distances. Which is why the 20" M16 is still preferred for longer engagements over the M4/Carbines. They're also not looking for sub-MOA groups but rather lighter and combat effective.

 

[grimreaper21]

i would say 20'' also. theres nothing wrong with a 16'' but i think he wants accuracy more than portability for a military-tactical situation.

 

[fastsw]

Looking for accuracy first. Will shoot paper target at 100-300 yards. Wanted to get as accurate as possible so am looking at the 24" barrel first as this will be a target rifle. I can always have it cut/crowned or switch uppers later.