Annoyed at S&W

[vector16]

I am annoyed with S&W. I was in in the market for a new handgun. I was really interested in the M&P. I wanted and M&P 45 at first, just because it was a good’ole American round. I reviewed what I really wanted the gun for an came to a conclusion that I wanted a 9mm cause I mainly want a gun to go to the range and shoot without spending a fortune. So that is what I went for. I was watching Guns and Gear last summer and saw the M&P and its cool features like the adjustable palm swells and the mag safety ect. I also really liked the style of the gun itself. I also was looking at the XD9 and for comparison the G17.
I went to my local range to see if I could rent all three gun and give them a little test drive, if you will. I rented the XD first. What a ***. No way no how. The XD had a reset or lack there of. I wanted a gun with a short reset for double tapping and I light trigger for sure. Next I got the G17, besides the grip it was an all around great performer. I really wanted the M&P though. I got the M&P next. First off, I was loading the mag. The mag was nothing like my Sigma mag. It was very hard to load and this is on a fairly used gun. Next I when to put the mag into the gun, not slamming it in, just slipping it into the handle. The slide closed without me doing anything. This would have made the guys day in the lane next to me get really ugly if for some reason I had my finger on the trigger. I did not like this at all. I even loaded it with different ammo and even with just 1 round and it did the same thing. The trigger pull is long and the reset is so slight you really don’t know it came at all. It is not very accurate either. It is also more difficult to keep on target than the other two I mentioned.
The reason why I am annoyed at S&W is, they put this gun up against a gun that had a fabulous reputation already as far as reliability, dependability, weight, etc. and then as a final output they give the consumer that has been loyal for more than 5 years is this ***. Now the really great thing that S&W had was the warranty. Not the case anymore, Glock has the same warranty, lifetime. So really needed to pick up their game with the product they are putting out to us. They did not.
I really like my SW40VE. I have put more rounds through this gun than I have through any other and not one failure or feature I was not expecting for the price. I mean I have not had 1 failure. It’s a great gun for what I bought it for.
The M&P is double, +, the price, less safe, same accuracy, and so on. I feel like I was getting the shaft if I got this gun. I will want to purchase another gun I a few months. I will be looking a S&W as always. This next gun is going to be o n the higher end, for me at least. S&W really needs to go back to the drawing board and step up there game and come out with a gun that is not a make shift copy of another gun, but is beyond the quality, functionality, and reliability of the rest, kind of like they were at one point last century.
This time I bought the G17. I’ll give my report after I try to make this gun fail with a few hundred boxes of crappy ammo.

 

[SW CQB 45]

I don't have any time behind an MP.....but I deal with a dept of about 150 glocks and and academy with 30 glocks.

A large marjority of them will release the slide upon mag insertion. Finger should never be on your trigger when changing mags.

Not trying to argue....just letting you know Glocks do the same.

Wear, tolerances or lack of on stamped parts could be the factors.

On duty and comp....I carried/y a SW45 and 1911 since 1998.....I cant recall the slide releasing upon mag insertion.

Good luck on your next gun purchase.

 

[mbliss57]

Missed Opportunity

First of all I hat rented guns at gun stores. They get abused by people who know nothing about guns and usually not cleaned or taken care of by the store. At least that is my observation and experience. I would never judge a gun by how it performed as a rental. That said, I own an M&P .45 with more than 5000 rounds down range with it. I have never had 1 problem. No slides releases when I put the mag in. Never a FTL or FTT. Nothing. It has performed flawlessly and at 25' it can shoot 2" groups all day long. So enjoy your Glock... you missed a great gun by using very limited data. Did you ever post up here to see what owners here thought of M&P's and what their experiences were or is the Gun Rental your only data point? I think Glock's are fine too. In fact I think Glock's and the M&P are very even and it comes down to personal choice. I chose the American made M&P from S&W over the European model and couldn't be happier.

 

[vector16]

Did you ever post up here to see what owners here thought of M&P's and what their experiences were QUOTE]

Yes I did actually. The slide thing is a common problem with the M&P's, so I have found out. The M&P I fired at the store was a fairly new one. They have had it there for about 3 weeks they said. The thing about the used guns at the range is, they have been abused and that is a good judge of how the gun is going to be for you in ten years. I also wanted the really short reset without having to do a $159 trigger job (Apex). I have S&Ws. I am just disappointed when they make a gun an put it into a class that is not even close. They puit the Sigma into the Glock class and that was a good idea, $300 gun vs a $600 gun. when they put it imto a class dollar for dollar they were out matched by a long shot. I will consider S&W again as I said. I hope the try to get out of this polymer class and go back to making real guns, they were so good at it. If it ain't broke don't try to fix it. If they want to get into light weight guns they should try to make a Carbon Fiber gun. That would be something special.

 

[Sinkhole30]

I own an M&P45 and also have not had a single FTF/FTE. Mine will close the slide upon forcefully loading a magazine, but only when it's slammed home. I've spent quite a bit of time behind Glock's and they in all honesty are not the gun for me. They are uncomfortable in my hand. I know several people that own them and have had great luck with them. However my brother in law sold his G26 because it regularly FTF and stove pipe. No manufacturer has ever produced a firearm that 100% of the production runs were completely reliable. As far you trigger comparison of your Sigma and a rental M&P goes. I have probably about 500 rnds through that same model Sigma. The M&P trigger is far superior to the Sigma in my opinion. I think the Sigma trigger is more than excessively long and to heavy. Just my opinion.

Sent from my BlackBerry 9800 using Tapatalk

 

[mlk18]

The reason why I am annoyed at S&W is, they put this gun up against a gun that had a fabulous reputation already as far as reliability, dependability, weight, etc. and then as a final output they give the consumer that has been loyal for more than 5 years is this ***.

My experience could not be any more opposite of yours. I have a half dozen M&P's which have all proven to be excellent guns and awesome performers. Accuracy and reliability have been exceptional and the ergonomics are top notch. After extensive testing and evaluation (and constant issues with .40s&w Glock's) my agency adopted the M&P and won't be looking back. I appreciate that an American company is now making a service gun worthy of my duty holster.

 

[Shooting Padre]

For some interesting comparisons between the M&P and Glock, check out the ATI Armorers course on You Tube. Good stuff.

 

[turbo38gn]

I almost gotta laugh when I stumble upon these kind of threads.. unfortunately there is nothing funny about a review so negative and far off base that I have to question the validity of the information. But then, that's why I keep an open mind and swish it around before making my judgement. Ok, I'm done.... I own 4 of these M&P's... there is a bit of truth to what I just read.. but daaaamn it sure is exaggerated in my book... and that's all I gots to say. I can't wait until the next excuse I get to buy another M&P..

 

[crofoot629]

I recently retired from a department that issued Glock 22’s. We however could carry just about anything we wanted, if we bought it ourselves. I just stuck with the Glock. I’m an IPSC and other action shooter, where I compete with a pair of Wilson Combat 1911’s in 45 acp. I would really have preferred the 1911 at work too, but I like free stuff, if it works well.
There’s what I recognize, as horrible cop mentality, of not buying your own stuff, or doing training your not paid for.

Anyway while still employed I T&E’d the Smith line of new M&P auto loaders. I really liked them, but found I was so used to the Glock trigger I had to work harder to shoot them well. I never had a slide slam shut when loading a Mag into one of the M&P’s. I have many times with Glocks when I’m stressed and running the gun hard.

My department refused to consider an M&P with frame mounted safety. This would have been my preference.

I think M&P’s and Glocks are on a par with each other quality wise.
However the only reason I’d buy an M&P over a Glock would be to get the Frame Mounted Safety.

Just my experience, yours may vary.

 

[obiwankabaldi]

wow surprised to read such a negative review....I have 4 M&P's and love them. Yes the slide does shut on mag insertion but if you read any reviews here you would know that this is the way they were designed to operate. The part about unsafe would only apply "if you had your finger on the trigger while you inserted the magazine" No safety issue on the guns part but "yours". Also, range guns are abused to say the least. I am not saying that your assessment is wrong but do think that it is biases by trying a gun that obviously you had not read the manual for and did not have a good representation of. Try a new one or one that has been properly maintained and approach the slide activation during magazine insertion with an open mind and you may find that you actually like the M&P's......

 

[jackrabbit000]

wow surprised to read such a negative review....I have 4 M&P's and love them. Yes the slide does shut on mag insertion but if you read any reviews here you would know that this is the way they were designed to operate. The part about unsafe would only apply "if you had your finger on the trigger while you inserted the magazine" No safety issue on the guns part but "yours". Also, range guns are abused to say the least. I am not saying that your assessment is wrong but do think that it is biases by trying a gun that obviously you had not read the manual for and did not have a good representation of. Try a new one or one that has been properly maintained and approach the slide activation during magazine insertion with an open mind and you may find that you actually like the M&P's......

x2 on everythng you said here. I have a 5" Pro Series and don't have any issues with it, and yes, my slide releases on magazine insertion. Mine has no thumb safety or magazine safety either and like it this way. Can't wait to get a Pro Series in .40 S&W.

 

[oldandfatonaharley]

My new M&P does the "slide slams forward on insertion of magazine" trick. So does my Glock 22. It's only a bad thing if you are disgracefully sloppy with reloading, leaving your finger on the trigger, not keeping your weapon pointed downrange at all times. In a firefight, the slide releasing itself upon magazine insertion might conceivably be kind of convenient. Thus far, I'm liking the trigger pull better than the Glock's, and I'm not experiencing the accuracy issues you are claiming.

 

[walkin' trails]

I've had an M&P 45 since 2009. I have put just over 5000 rounds thru it without a malfunction. It has become my favorite pistol. I love the ergonomics over a Glock. I've had the slide go forward when I slam in a fresh magazine, but far less often than I've had it happen on Glocks. The trigger on mine is a little heavier than a Glock's but it was never what I would call gritty or heavy. I have a lot more experience with Glocks (25 years) and have seen that they occassionally seem to get rushed getting guns to market and things get out the door that shouldn't. I should also point out that the Glock 4th Generation pistol hasn't been as well received because it has had some reliability issues. I think that they've got those bugs worked out, but they never should have had those issues in the first place. I've carried a Glock in a lot of rough places and they've held up well, especially my 1st Gen 17. I'm not surprised that S&W lets something slip by once in a while. I've seen it with their revolvers back in the 70s and 80s; and with their 1st -3rd Gen conventional pistols. Its is my opinion that the M&P is their best semi-auto yet.

 

[vstromrider]

There are those who like and appreciate the M&Ps. then there those who wouldnt know a good pistol if it bit them on the butt...

 

[Magnum27]

I love the "automatic" slide release. I think it makes it actually safer than having to awkwardly release the slide. As others have mentioned, other guns do this as well but most need a much harder slap of the magazine. I think that is more unsafe.

 

[cshoff]

Many semi-autos will "auto forward" when the mag is slammed home. MOST semi-autos can be made to "auto-forward" after a little bit of wear. I don't believe this would be a reason for me to not choose a particular platform.

 

[4506517]

You did make the right choice. I carry a M&P 45 piece of junk everyday. I have layer out my agency's problems here multiple times. Im on my second one. Everyone here tells me I'm crazy, there's no way the M&P is junk etc. All I can do is laugh. Last March at qualification numerous pistols were pulled from service on the spot due to various reasons. Everyone will chime in and suggest 100,000 reasons OTHER than the gun is junk to explain all the failures.

Personally I am a big time 3rd generation guy. We traded our 4566s for this thing.

Anyway, your original notion that the M&P is junk is correct. I will wager the majority of the posters after me will pontificate about how THEY have never had problems with theirs, the ________ police department is issuing it so it can't be junk, and a slew of reasons why it isn't junk. I wonder if they're doing it to feel better about the money they spent, the choice they made, or out of brand loyalty?

 

[cshoff]

You did make the right choice. I carry a M&P 45 piece of junk everyday. I have layer out my agency's problems here multiple times. Im on my second one. Everyone here tells me I'm crazy, there's no way the M&P is junk etc. All I can do is laugh. Last March at qualification numerous pistols were pulled from service on the spot due to various reasons. Everyone will chime in and suggest 100,000 reasons OTHER than the gun is junk to explain all the failures.

Personally I am a big time 3rd generation guy. We traded our 4566s for this thing.

Anyway, your original notion that the M&P is junk is correct. I will wager the majority of the posters after me will pontificate about how THEY have never had problems with theirs, the ________ police department is issuing it so it can't be junk, and a slew of reasons why it isn't junk. I wonder if they're doing it to feel better about the money they spent, the choice they made, or out of brand loyalty?

One might ask the same type of questions as to why you are taking such a derogatory tone. Because obviously, since YOUR gun had a problem, that, by default, makes every other M&P that was ever made, a piece of "junk", right? Never mind the fact that many people are happy with their M&P's, right? Since you've proclaimed them "junk", they must be.

The problem is, even if what you claim is true, the tone you've taken sounds more like sour grapes than anything else, and will probably be treated as such by most of the people who read your reply. I would guess your attitude is the reason why you aren't being taken seriously.

 

[4506517]

LOL.....I hear ya tough guy. Maybe if you knew the extent of our agency's problems you would be able to speak a little more intelligently about OUR (not exclusively MY) problems.

FYI, ALL of our agency's guns were recalled. EVERY single one. Some guys are on their fourth and fifth gun. But I guess I still don't know what I'm talking about. Maybe go back and re-read what I wrote. I never said I wasnt a fan EXCLUSIVELY because of.my experiences. Remember reading is fundamental.

We (again, the agency not just me) suffered sights that fell off, failure to fire, extract, eject, and feed. Profuse rust, premature wear, and deterioration of the polymer around the hole the grip pin goes in. S&W and the distributor exchanged all (again, the entire agency's not just mine) of our guns. We have further exchanged guns that were exchanged once and sometimes twice.

I understand people get sensitve when another criticizes products/choices they make. Don't take it so personal guy. Im tickled yours is everything you want it to be and more. Mine not so much.

 

[growr]

Yeah, my piece of junk M&P .40 Full Size has only fired 15,000 rounds downrange in USPSA/IDPA without any problems at all. Can you imagine the gall of S&W to make such a disaster?

And what idiot engineer/designer came up with the idea of a slide forwarding upon magazine insertion? Why... it can take seconds off a reload and who in the world needs that? Nobody needs that kind of speed....

I just don't understand why S&W would design a gun with THAT kind of reliability or have a trigger that gets better every time you fire it!

Randy

PS. It also angers me deeply that they have to have three different backstraps in order to fit someone!! Why couldn't they have one size fits all like everyone else?