Annoyed at S&W

[EAHILL]

Like that post, even though I don't own 1911 ( I would like to)
I do own two Smiths, a 642 and MP 40C and they are both great guns.
There is still "just something" about a 1911.

Reply to engineer1911

 

[cshoff]

Now I wonder why their attorneys TELL them to say it. Is it because it is not safe or because its a mistake. I am thinking I am going to believe the people that make the gun than you. They are willing to fix the mistake. Oh, wait a minute, the gun was not designed to do that. Now if the gun was not designed to do that and it does, ummm, what is that called again? It kind of like the gas tank on the 79' Pinto. The gas tank was not designed to explode when it got hit from behind. Was that a cool feature too? Did YOU go out buy the 79' Pinto for that neat feature?

Can you name any polymer semi-auto design that doesn't suffer from the same "malfunction", as you call it?

 

[vector16]

Can you name any polymer semi-auto design that doesn't suffer from the same "malfunction", as you call it?

Well yes I can. The S&W Sigma for example does not suffer that malfunction and that is the cheapest gun they make, my G17, every Sig I have ever picked up. Walther polymer pistols HK, the entire line of SR and P series by Ruger, and so on.The M&P is the only one that does it.

 

[cshoff]

Well yes I can. The S&W Sigma for example does not suffer that malfunction and that is the cheapest gun they make, my G17, every Sig I have ever picked up. Walther polymer pistols HK, the entire line of SR and P series by Ruger, and so on.The M&P is the only one that does it.

The Sigma I have on my belt right now will "auto-forward", the other one I have in my safe will as well, though not as consistently. I have a both a Glock G22 and a G23 that will "auto-forward" as well, in addition to a Ruger P95 that I have. I have a couple of Bersa's that will auto-forward, a Para LDA on occasion, and two Taurus PT111 MP's that will do it from time to time. I've seen just about every brand/type/model of semi-auto you can think of come through one of my classes at one time or another and I can tell you that there are far more out there that WILL auto-forward, than there are those that won't.

The issue isn't that a gun may or may not auto-forward, because any semi-auto can do it at any time. The issue is how you respond to it when it happens, because it WILL eventually happen, whether you shoot a Glock, S&W, Ruger, SIG, etc. If this is something that throws you so far off of your game that you can't get your head back in the fight (which it certainly appears to do when reading through your various posts), then you might be better off to rid yourself of your semi-auto pistols and choose a good revolver instead.

 

[vector16]

I have never had any of my pistols' slides move forward and load a chamber without me intenionaly making it do so. Infact the only semi auto that even has an "auto foward" design feature is the Bersa. It does not matter anyhow I did not end up buying the M&P becaus e of this malfunction and would never buy any gun the had a malfunction like this much less a malfunction that the company knew was happening on a wide spread basis and they chose not to do anything about. They could put a recall on the pistol and thoose owners that choose to send theirs in could and those that did not want wouldn't. The fact that this does not happen just when the gun is worn with 250,000 rounds thru it, but when its is brand new out of the factory with round thru it. They are selling the gun knowing it is a bad design. They could have design the gun and made it seem like a feature but didn't because only 90% of them do it and they don't exactlly know why. Instead they are giving their loyal costumers a gun that is not working correctly. Do you see the problem in the ethics here. It's BULL. If yiou were a buisness owner and you sold a product to the public and your product did not work the way you said it was going to work, You would be held accountable. IT'S BAD BUISNESS, BOTTOM LINE.

 

[vossman]

LOL.....I hear ya tough guy. Maybe if you knew the extent of our agency's problems you would be able to speak a little more intelligently about OUR (not exclusively MY) problems.

FYI, ALL of our agency's guns were recalled. EVERY single one. Some guys are on their fourth and fifth gun. But I guess I still don't know what I'm talking about. Maybe go back and re-read what I wrote. I never said I wasnt a fan EXCLUSIVELY because of.my experiences. Remember reading is fundamental.

We (again, the agency not just me) suffered sights that fell off, failure to fire, extract, eject, and feed. Profuse rust, premature wear, and deterioration of the polymer around the hole the grip pin goes in. S&W and the distributor exchanged all (again, the entire agency's not just mine) of our guns. We have further exchanged guns that were exchanged once and sometimes twice.

I understand people get sensitve when another criticizes products/choices they make. Don't take it so personal guy. Im tickled yours is everything you want it to be and more. Mine not so much.

If this is true it makes me sad.

 

[cshoff]

I have never had any of my pistols' slides move forward and load a chamber without me intenionaly making it do so. Infact the only semi auto that even has an "auto foward" design feature is the Bersa. It does not matter anyhow I did not end up buying the M&P becaus e of this malfunction and would never buy any gun the had a malfunction like this much less a malfunction that the company knew was happening on a wide spread basis and they chose not to do anything about. They could put a recall on the pistol and thoose owners that choose to send theirs in could and those that did not want wouldn't. The fact that this does not happen just when the gun is worn with 250,000 rounds thru it, but when its is brand new out of the factory with round thru it. They are selling the gun knowing it is a bad design. They could have design the gun and made it seem like a feature but didn't because only 90% of them do it and they don't exactlly know why. Instead they are giving their loyal costumers a gun that is not working correctly. Do you see the problem in the ethics here. It's BULL. If yiou were a buisness owner and you sold a product to the public and your product did not work the way you said it was going to work, You would be held accountable. IT'S BAD BUISNESS, BOTTOM LINE.

What you seem to be missing here is, if S&W is selling guns with a "known defect", then so is Glock and many other manufacturers. That was the reason behind my previous post - most any semi-auto will auto-forward, even if they haven't had "250,000" rounds run through them.

This is kind of a stupid video, and the guy likes to throw a few curse words in now and then, but it demonstrates two different Glock pistols and a 1911 all auto-forwarding with nothing but a firm insertion of the magazine:

Slap Reloading - YouTube

 

[BillR1]

Now I wonder why their attorneys TELL them to say it. Is it because it is not safe or because its a mistake. I am thinking I am going to believe the people that make the gun than you. They are willing to fix the mistake. Oh, wait a minute, the gun was not designed to do that. Now if the gun was not designed to do that and it does, ummm, what is that called again? It kind of like the gas tank on the 79' Pinto. The gas tank was not designed to explode when it got hit from behind. Was that a cool feature too? Did YOU go out buy the 79' Pinto for that neat feature?

Umm...not a valid comparison at all, but I think you knew that. The Pinto was a DEFECT that hurt people. The M&P works like any number of autos will work, it just does it easier and better.
Try to stick to the subject...

 

[vector16]

What you seem to be missing here is, if S&W is selling guns with a "known defect", then so is Glock and many other manufacturers. That was the reason behind my previous post - most any semi-auto will auto-forward, even if they haven't had "250,000" rounds run through them.

This is kind of a stupid video, and the guy likes to throw a few curse words in now and then, but it demonstrates two different Glock pistols and a 1911 all auto-forwarding with nothing but a firm insertion of the magazine:

Slap Reloading - YouTube

Thats great.The fact still stands that its not supposed to do it. What is so difficult to understand about that? In my experience, I did not slam in the magazine. I slid it up to the locking position and the slide slammed shut.I tried the same thing with the Glock 17 I had rented also, the slide stayed open. I Did the samething on my Sigma, the slide stayed open and I did it on my Colt 1911 and what do ya know the slide stayed open. I bought the Glock 17/G3 and I am happy with it. Maybe when I am ready to purchase another gun I will look at Smith and Wesson again. I do not want to buy a gun that malfunctions fresh off the GS shelf. I thought that I would get that with an M&P and after researching it i would have. Maybe I'll go with the Rock Island 1911 next time or maybe the CZ or the FNH. Maybe the Beretta, My prior service weapon. I do not want to deal with a company that says to me "Our gun is **** and we are going to take your hard earned money and seel it to you anyway because we don't care what one guy thinks, we care how many guys we can rip off and get away with it.

 

[vector16]

Umm...not a valid comparison at all, but I think you knew that. The Pinto was a DEFECT that hurt people. The M&P works like any number of autos will work, it just does it easier and better.
Try to stick to the subject...

I am sticking to the subject Chief, its my thread. and it is a fair comparison because if i were not expecting the slide to slam shut and if I were a newbie to the gun world and had my finger on the trigger, the guy in the lane next to me would have been dead. It is a safety issue and it could kill people, Get it?

 

[BillR1]

I do not want to deal with a company that says to me "Our gun is **** and we are going to take your hard earned money and seel it to you anyway because we don't care what one guy thinks, we care how many guys we can rip off and get away with it.

You seem to be one of the VERY few that have an issue with this so-called "malfunction". The rest of us LIKE the feature. I sure don't feel ripped off.

 

[BillR1]

I am sticking to the subject Chief, its my thread. and it is a fair comparison because if i were not expecting the slide to slam shut and if I were a newbie to the gun world and had my finger on the trigger, the guy in the lane next to me would have been dead. It is a safety issue and it could kill people, Get it?

So...they need a make a completely idiot-proof gun? The "newbie" needs to demonstrate proper muzzle control. A newbie can screw up untold different ways and hurt someone. This feature is the LEAST of his concern if he's that careless with the muzzle and his trigger finger.

 

[cshoff]

Thats great.The fact still stands that its not supposed to do it. What is so difficult to understand about that? In my experience, I did not slam in the magazine. I slid it up to the locking position and the slide slammed shut.I tried the same thing with the Glock 17 I had rented also, the slide stayed open. I Did the samething on my Sigma, the slide stayed open and I did it on my Colt 1911 and what do ya know the slide stayed open. I bought the Glock 17/G3 and I am happy with it. Maybe when I am ready to purchase another gun I will look at Smith and Wesson again. I do not want to buy a gun that malfunctions fresh off the GS shelf. I thought that I would get that with an M&P and after researching it i would have. Maybe I'll go with the Rock Island 1911 next time or maybe the CZ or the FNH. Maybe the Beretta, My prior service weapon. I do not want to deal with a company that says to me "Our gun is **** and we are going to take your hard earned money and seel it to you anyway because we don't care what one guy thinks, we care how many guys we can rip off and get away with it.

You can buy whatever you want, I don't really care. I'm simply pointing out the hypocrisy in your reasoning. You say you won't buy the M&P because it will auto-forward (perfectly reasonable decision on your part), but you'll buy a Glock even though as has been shown, they will auto-forward as well. So it seems you are holding one make/model to a different standard than the other. I've yet to see you call for a full-scale recall of all the Glock pistols because they will auto-forward, yet you've done just that with the S&W.

IMO, you have stated a valid reason why you don't want the M&P. But that reasoning loses some validity when you purchase another gun that suffers from the same "defect", as you call it. To each their own.

 

[Badquaker]

I want to know how to get this "feature" on all of my autos. I don't put a magazine into the gun to leave it unloaded. Anyone who can't keep their finger off the trigger while inserting a mag is a prime candidate for pulling it when they drop the slide.

 

[vector16]

I want to know how to get this "feature" on all of my autos. I don't put a magazine into the gun to leave it unloaded. Anyone who can't keep their finger off the trigger while inserting a mag is a prime candidate for pulling it when they drop the slide.

Thats what I said, a newbie. If ya want this feature to be on all your guns i'm sure you can rig so it will do that. Or maybe you can just send them all to smith and wesson and tell them to "fix a problem", it should come back not working just the way you want it to.

 

[Badquaker]

someone seems a little uptight over a gun they dont own......

 

[vector16]

someone seems a little uptight over a gun they dont own......

If you read the thread from the begining chief you would know why. But obviuosly you did not. So I dont know what to tell you.

 

[turbo38gn]

I am sticking to the subject Chief, its my thread. and it is a fair comparison because if i were not expecting the slide to slam shut and if I were a newbie to the gun world and had my finger on the trigger, the guy in the lane next to me would have been dead. It is a safety issue and it could kill people, Get it?

You really say some ridiculous stuff... if anyone ever sounded like a troll, you sure do. Guess I can say what I want here too.. That really made sense, finger on the trigger AND aiming the gun at the guy in the next lane...