Why is the Flight or Fight response to imminent danger important in self defense?

[sirrduke2010]

I am not going to go into the whole physiology process of the body's response to the immediate stress of danger. I will however discuss how this relates to self defense skills. From the previous discussions I see some feel that pulling out a gun and shooting someone isn't an issue. Many on here are Veterans, Police officers, are in the military, and/or have had experiences in the past of being involved in life or death situation. Their past experiences will help them in an emergency situation. I see the general feeling that if you are put in danger you will act appropriately and use your weapon. When the danger does occur the body responds with an immediately dump of chemicals into the brain sparking a response in the rest of the body. How the body responds to immediate stress can interfere with your judgement and your fine motor skills. Small things life taking safeties off, making sure there is a round in the chamber, making sure the gun is loaded, can be overlooked. The perception of danger can be distorted. The clarity of thought is interfered with because the blood is directed to the muscles. You could freeze, you could over-react, you could perceive danger from people where there shouldn't be, etc. All of these possible reactions and more because the amount of the blood going to the brain will be decreased. Thinking clearly and small motor skills will be affected. Your savior will be the rehearsed behaviors, reflexes, a plan of what to do in an emergency, weapon practice, etc. Preparation for that moment is critical to doing the right thing at the right time. One thing is sure unless you prepare for having to use your weapon and what to do after a shooting you can find yourself both legally and physically in trouble.

 

[tomcatt51]

WHAT IF.... there was an "off" button....

 

[jlrhiner]

Once again, TRAINING!!!! PRACTICE!!!!

 

[accessbob]

Once again, TRAINING!!!! PRACTICE!!!!

And to go with that, a good practice I would maybe use as well, is visualization and deciding how you will react to given scenarios BEFORE they happen. If you have to think about what to do, it will be too late.

I may be completely off base there but that is something I've thought about a lot is that sometimes you don't have the ability to actually completely train for a specific scenario in a physical sense. But preparing yourself on what to do in that scenario, and doing that frequently, is going to help more than not thinking about it beforehand.

 

[feralmerril]

Why? Because when the event happens you have to act NOW! I have never had to out draw someone, but a number of times I have had to fight and take the instigater down. I didnt think I had time to suggest cant we all jis be friends? Lets pray together over this. That or scratch out and hope they werent faster than me or a bad shot. That dont work well at 300 pounds.

 

[cwo4uscgret]

Please provide your ciriculum vitae that supports your hypothosis.

 

[feralmerril]

Uh, Say what?

 

[ContinentalOp]

Some suggested reading on the subject for those interested in more thorough info:

On Combat, by Lt. Col. Dave Grossman with Loren W. Christensen
Sharpening the Warrior's Edge, by Bruce K. Siddle

 

[venomballistics]

How the body responds to immediate stress can interfere with your judgement and your fine motor skills. Small things life taking safeties off, making sure there is a round in the chamber, making sure the gun is loaded, can be overlooked.

seriously ....
CCW permits do not come out of cracker jack boxes.
anyone with a permit has in all probability, proven competency with their arm to include operation of the safety.
they have a name for people who check for rounds in chambers and full mags / cylinders at the start of a gunfight ... that name is CORPSE ... these are checked just before the gun goes into the holster, just like we all did decades before we had CCW

Dont address us as though we just fell off the cabbage truck into the responsibility of care and feeding of arms. nearly all here have been well versed in this long before Al Gore invented the internet.

 

[StatesRightist]

What if a frog had wings? What if Rosie O'Donnell comes to your house as your making a sandwich and you answer the door with ham in your hand? Could you save your arm? What if bell bottoms come back into style? What if my Johnson gets any bigger and I have to duck tape to my knee...

The things that keep my awake at night...lol.

 

[tops]

Please provide your ciriculum vitae that supports your hypothosis.

Have you been reading the dictionary again? Larry

 

[StatesRightist]

No one truly knows how they react till they are in it.

 

[accessbob]

What if a frog had wings? What if Rosie O'Donnell comes to your house as your making a sandwich and you answer the door with ham in your hand? Could you save your arm? What if bell bottoms come back into style? What if my Johnson gets any bigger and I have to duck tape to my knee...

The things that keep my awake at night...lol.

What if Rosie O'Donnell comes to your door holding a frog with wings and eating a sandwich wearing bell bottoms?

(not touching the last one - oooh, that didn't sound right either...)

 

[Kanewpadle]

I am not going to go into the whole physiology process of the body's response to the immediate stress of danger. I will however discuss how this relates to self defense skills. From the previous discussions I see some feel that pulling out a gun and shooting someone isn't an issue. Many on here are Veterans, Police officers, are in the military, and/or have had experiences in the past of being involved in life or death situation. Their past experiences will help them in an emergency situation. I see the general feeling that if you are put in danger you will act appropriately and use your weapon. When the danger does occur the body responds with an immediately dump of chemicals into the brain sparking a response in the rest of the body. How the body responds to immediate stress can interfere with your judgement and your fine motor skills. Small things life taking safeties off, making sure there is a round in the chamber, making sure the gun is loaded, can be overlooked. The perception of danger can be distorted. The clarity of thought is interfered with because the blood is directed to the muscles. You could freeze, you could over-react, you could perceive danger from people where there shouldn't be, etc. All of these possible reactions and more because the amount of the blood going to the brain will be decreased. Thinking clearly and small motor skills will be affected. Your savior will be the rehearsed behaviors, reflexes, a plan of what to do in an emergency, weapon practice, etc. Preparation for that moment is critical to doing the right thing at the right time. One thing is sure unless you prepare for having to use your weapon and what to do after a shooting you can find yourself both legally and physically in trouble.

Ok, who's book did you steal this out of?

 

[TAKJR]

I am not an attorney, so please understand this up-front. I have been in law enforcement for 30+ years however and all I want to say to all is that the use of deadly force, by any means, is a "last resort." The recent case in Florida over the death of the teenager is a tragedy, plain and simple, whichever way you want to look at it. The death of any human being by another is a serious matter, and should NEVER be taken lightly. When that police dispatcher told the CCW holder/neighborhood watch person TO NOT FOLLOW that teenager, that is what he should have done. Let the police get to the scene and attempt a "Terry" stop (the legal stop and possible frisk for weapons of a suspicious person or persons). If the police arrive late and lose the "subject-in-question" so be it. I don't know the facts of this case and I am not trying to second guess anyone here, but had that person listened to the police dispatcher, he would (most likely) not be in the serious trouble he is about to discover that WILL arrive at his door eventually.

And that teenager would be alive today.

"If" you are attacked....stand your ground and defend yourself from "unlawful" physical contact but leave the "Terry" stops of alleged "suspicious" persons, to the police.

And yes, police have shot unarmed persons that they felt may have had weapons but did not, but each circumstance is measured individually by prosecutors, and if another "reasonable" officer (or person) would have (most likely) done the same thing, under the same individual circumstances (feared for his/her life), the actual officer (or person) in-question "may"....never be charged. Again, that is up to prosecutors to file charges.

Civil lawsuits are a whole different ballgame.

So....things happen fast....and you may (still) have to do what you have to do...but remember...the consequences......

Try being a cop......it's not easy....

TAKJR

 

[sirrduke2010]

I always wonder about the responses.

The "What ifs" is utterly ridiculous because the fight or flight response will occur everytime unless you are conditioned, there is some medical condition, and/or you are taking certain medications. If you are put into imminent danger the body will response with an increase breathing rate, increased heart rate, increase blood pressure, tensed muscles, sweating, etc. The sympathetic system in the body is stimulated by the secretion of chemicals in the body. The mind in this case has the ability to respond to gross motor skills but has difficulty in responding to fine motor skills. I merely put the following in simple terms before so people would understand. If I had an audience of 100 people probably all 100 would respond the same way to a situation that they feared. Is this a rare experience and the answer is no. Here are some links about the fight or flight response: Fight-or-flight response - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia and HowStuffWorks "Fight or Flight". These articles discuss fear and stress and how they relates to the Flight or Fight Response.

Handling the response of the body to stress and fear is important to know about so that you can train, plan, prepare, etc. for a future event. Try to work things out at the moment and think clear is going to be very difficult. What may be simple when you are calm can be very difficult when you are under stress. Your body will respond to fear of an impending threat the same way. It is important to understand this when you have a life or death situation. Of course we can deny that this Fight or Flight response does exist. The Fight or Flight response is a normal physiological action of the body to danger, fear, and stress.

Many self defense classes consider how to handle the body's response to the Fight or Flight because they know it is critical to the person's response to a dangerous situation.

We do know how the body react but we don't always know how the person will act in response to a dangerous situation. The body's reaction and the person's reaction are two different things. As previously stated training, knowledge, preparation, and a plan will assist the person in making choosing the right decision and/or reflexive trained action when reacting to a perilous situation. I guess, as always, we can deny, make fun of, call it ridiculous, counter with the "what if" scenarios, etc. to repudiate what I have written.

 

[venomballistics]

In Massad Ayoob we trust.
once ya manage to get us past our "Oh god here we go again" response you will find that most of us are aware of the physiology and psychology in play.
for example...
before the 45 hit the holster this morning, it was first cleared, function checked reloaded, made safe, then holstered, eliminating any doubt as to its condition. sweeping the safety off is an automatic response solidly linked to to the draw and presentation routine. these will not be an issue.
when the fun starts, it will come with a payload of adrenaline which will have an adverse effect upon marksmanship. this too is well known. I personally shoot at a level at least four times more precise than Ill ever need in a conflict. this fact, entered into the accepted standard that marksmanship is halved in combat will still yield a result twice as good as needed.
you will find those who have not taken these things into consideration to be the rare exception on this board.
so lets just move on along to useful things like use of a separate flashlight with a pistol, ammo rotation and maintenance schedules

 

[labworm]

In the military every individual receives exactly the same basic training.

How will one respond, no one knows.

 

[Ltlbear]

Studies have shown that in a disaster situation involving several people, 10% will take a leadership role, 80% will blindly follow the leader and another 10% will run around with there heads cut off not know what to do. Now this goes directly to how the body will react to the chemical dump it just received.
So, you now have the Sheepdog, the sheep and the strays.
I would like to believe that the ones here who have taken the initiative to arm themselves, train how to protect themselves and develop the muscle memory and skills to react during the adrenaline dump fall into the Sheepdog category. The rest are just hoping for the best.

Now, I have to say, that in the few times in my life, where danger and possible death caused the Adrenalin dump into my body, two things happened. First, time moved at a very slow rate and all details of the event were crystal clear in my mind. Second, muscle memory and experience took over and things happens as they had been practiced and done hundreds of times in the past. The time after the event was a different story and it took about 30 minutes to come down and get my thoughts back together.

 

[Stu Honea]

And to go with that, a good practice I would maybe use as well, is visualization and deciding how you will react to given scenarios BEFORE they happen. If you have to think about what to do, it will be too late.

I may be completely off base there but that is something I've thought about a lot is that sometimes you don't have the ability to actually completely train for a specific scenario in a physical sense. But preparing yourself on what to do in that scenario, and doing that frequently, is going to help more than not thinking about it beforehand.

Excellant post and this is part of proper training.Your mind is your best weapon.