Turning the gun on you to kidnap you or take you to a 2nd location.

[sirrduke2010]

I have deleted this because somehow I know the information is important and why give it to the people that are just going to doubt me and say I made it up. I appreciate the support of those in the know.

 

[Smith357]

If kidnapping me was a viable profit enterprise I would hire professional security. Luckily I'm not worth the trouble.

 

[sirrduke2010]

I am wondering why people don't read the whole article before taking pot shots at it. They could learn something that could be important to survive. Suppose a bank robber took you hostage and I don't think the allow hidden guns in a bank. Wouldn't it be important to know what tactics would be best for your survival because cooperating and being kidnapped is a terrible and risky idea.

 

[jfd]

I've instructed my 2 teenage sons to never allow themselves to be taken...run, scream and serpentine. The odds are much more in their favor that way. Numerous studies bear that out.

On the point of firing at a fleeing criminal, whether they did you harm or not, it is an invitation for all sorts of criminal and civil penalties....against you.

 

[Shooting Padre]

I figure that if the criminal is fleeing, the threat has ended. and if I shot at him, I'd be a candidate for a public hanging.

 

[venomballistics]

First I am present this because we often see ourselves as the victims defending ourselves but it is good to take a look in the other direction. For the following reasons: one could be robbed and our gun may not be available, your gun may be out of bullets, or the criminal got the drop on you, your gun jams, or you decide to shoot a criminal running away from you.

this is one of those rare days I look forward to this.
deciding to shoot a criminal running AWAY form you is generally not a good career move.

My source is the US Justice Department about shootings. If you are accosted by someone with a gun that wants to take you to a second location or kidnap you if you run the odds of the criminal firing after you are 12%, hitting you will a gun shot 6%, and the odds of killing you are 3%. Also there was a study done at a Colorado Police Department on moving targets and the accuracy of police officers hitting their target was 4%.

the US Justice dept numbers are suspicious half of 12% is 6% half that is 3% .. hey wait .. those are the numbers !!!!!!! someone abused their authority and made them up dude. NOTHING in real world statistics fits so neatly.
The Colorado finding may hold some water. After all, many officers think of the gun and skills as secondary to everything else. They largely shoot to qualify using static targets.
Ive hunted various forms of wild game. shooting at a retreating target is fairly common. Our hit numbers, I assure you, FAR exceed 4%. I'd assume a cross section of all members here would yield average numbers in the range of 30% to 60% .. we are gun people, and you can bet it'll show.

How does this all apply to the people on this site? Well if a criminal is running away from you the odds of hitting him are pretty small which may mean your bullet could strike someone else and possible kill him or her. You are responsible for that shot. In other words you take a terrible risk in trying to gun down an attacker or criminal running away from you.

Whats with the fear mongering dude?
shooting bystanders isn't nearly as likely as you'd have us believe. look at ammo sales figures and it'd be quite obvious the concern is a rare exception, or no one here would be over the age of 25.
the REAL risk is in shooting after the fight is over instead of shooting to end the fight.

The other side is if you become the victim that is kidnapped your odds of surviving are 50/50 and if you are taken you will probably be raped if you are a woman, tortured for both sexes, and there is a 50% possibility the kidnapper will kill you. Match that up against running from someone with a gun where the killing rate is 3% and the chance of hitting something moving is 4%. You have a much better chance of running and surviving if you run from someone that wants to kidnap you than stay there and allow them to take you to a second location.

do you really want to trust nice neat numbers of 50% of everything and a mildly credible 4% number with the rest of your life? Even when you've SEEN things with your OWN eyes to the contrary?.
no way dude, if a 12 year old first time deer hunter can plant a bounding buck running 3 times faster than any of us can, with a single shot. a thug can plant you too. the only way numbers can protect you is if your calculator is made of Kevlar

On the other side of the coin firing after a suspect or criminal is crazy because the probability of making the shot is small, there is a chance of hitting someone else, and you could be charged with assault if you hit the guy and/or murder if he dies.

believe what you like .. Ill go with what i've seen

 

[macski222]

I stopped reading after I saw the part about shooting at the perp while he's running away, and the possibility of you hitting an innocent. Once you start going down that road, it's no longer self defense

 

[jlrhiner]

I'm not worried. I can hit a fly in the eye with my 1911 at 300 yards with one hand. (I like to shoot one handed, it makes me look heroic).

 

[mc5aw]

In other words you take a terrible risk in trying to gun down an attacker or criminal running away from you.

Thank you for this illuminating tidbit ...

On the other side of the coin firing after a suspect or criminal is crazy because the probability of making the shot is small, there is a chance of hitting someone else, and you could be charged with assault if you hit the guy and/or murder if he dies.

Your probability claim is based on the erroneous assumption that everyone fires with an identical degree of skill and accuracy under duress.

Note to OP --> Read and learn from Venomballistics.

 

[thndrchiken]

I am wondering why people don't read the whole article before taking pot shots at it. They could learn something that could be important to survive. Suppose a bank robber took you hostage and I don't think the allow hidden guns in a bank. Wouldn't it be important to know what tactics would be best for your survival because cooperating and being kidnapped is a terrible and risky idea.

Perhaps if you stop quoting guns for dummies and your what if's you'd get more constructive input.

 

[cracker57]

did someone say bears

now are we talking if the kidnappers are bears in the north woods sorry could not help myself

 

[sirrduke2010]

Deleted because of those that don't believe me and want to attack me.

 

[jlrhiner]

In the words of Abraham Lincoln: "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt."

PLEASE TAKE THIS TO HEART!!!

 

[venomballistics]

I guess on this discussion we have the informed, interested parties, and the ones that just don't believe the material I put out period. I have a reference for the site I found this on. I have the authorities name which I can prove. I challenge the dissenters to come up with hard evidence to disprove what I have said and they must be reputable authorities.

I might believe some of the numbers if my eyes didnt see otherwise.
Ive taken several youth afield hunting. Many times I raised my gun and followed the target as backup for the kid. 70% of the time, my gun lowered unfired. raise the stress level on the kid and I would gladly buy into numbers in the 30% to 40% range. I just don't see how the numbers can drop so low as those of your sources.

The terrible thing is you take the time to try to let people know about valuable information that could save your life one day and keep you out of legal trouble. The dissenters have no support for their conclusions and simply state that it is their opinion that I am wrong. If you can't disprove what I say you simply disagree or attack my person without a shred of evidence to back up your claim.

In the words of Abraham Lincoln: "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt."

your primary point is advising against firing at a retreating target, I will actually agree with this. However the reasons for holding fire are not of accuracy and risk of strays. He's beating a retreat, the fight is over, the danger is probably averted. Unless he suddenly turns to fire, your shots are unjustified.
Better advice would be to use the perps retreat to get to cover and hold on the perp to make sure he don't change his mind

 

[Kanewpadle]

Sirrduke, you need to quit worrying so much.

As I have said before, and you obviously haven't learned from what I and others have said.......

All the "what ifs" in the world don't matter. Be prepared. Be flexible. Go confidently but quietly. Learn how to fight and better yet learn how to avoid one. But if you must, fight to win. Not prevail, WIN!

Each of us in our own mind must figure out what works for us. Each of us has an idea and a plan to be as prepared as best we can.

We don't have a crystal ball. If we did we would avoid trouble and we wouldn't need to discuss such things. But since it is impossible to foresee trouble, we must prepare ourselves in more ways than one.

Situational awareness will save your butt more times than not. Mindset, attitude, training and practice. It's a complete package that must be well rounded. "What ifs" are not included in that package.

Now I don't know if your trying to educate us, impress us, or learn something. But your going about it the wrong way.

Don't talk AT us. Talk TO us. Statistics aside, all the information is here for the asking and discussing. We have cops, ex cops, military and ex military. And folks that have been carrying for many, many years. We even have a few that have unfortunately had to take another live to preserve their own.

Concealed carry and the use of deadly force is a SERIOUS subject. I would rather discuss such things seriously and not about "what ifs".

And statistics don't always count on the street. If I relied on statistics and dumb luck, it would be my luck that I would need a grenade launcher to protect myself.

 

[Goldstar225]

I guess on this discussion we have the informed, interested parties, and the ones that just don't believe the material I put out period. I have a reference for the site I found this on. I have the authorities name which I can prove. I challenge the dissenters to come up with hard evidence to disprove what I have said and they must be reputable authorities.
The terrible thing is you take the time to try to let people know about valuable information that could save your life one day and keep you out of legal trouble. The dissenters have no support for their conclusions and simply state that it is their opinion that I am wrong. If you can't disprove what I say you simply disagree or attack my person without a shred of evidence to back up your claim.
In the words of Abraham Lincoln: "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt."

You claim to quote an unspecified Justice Department study then declare yourself to right unless your dissenters provide a level of proof that you have not met? Surely sir, you can do better than that.

 

[kyf]

Deleted because of those that don't believe me and want to attack me.

I have seen several of your posts, and I have also noticed you delete many of them because of dissenting opinions. I'm not saying I agree or disagree with you, however, at least have the courage to stand behind what you post and defend it vigorously if that is what YOU BELIEVE. Otherwise, why post at all unless your goal is to ruffle feathers and cause a stir? You will NEVER get EVERYONE to agree with you 100% so stop backing down and TAKE A STAND. Stop posting and deleting it if you don't want others opinions....

 

[Kanewpadle]

I have deleted this because somehow I know the information is important and why give it to the people that are just going to doubt me and say I made it up. I appreciate the support of those in the know.

Those in the know? You've got to be kidding! How do you know who knows what?

It's your statements and actions that cause some of us to doubt you.

Man up and quit wasting our time.