FBI Load and Over-Penetration
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Erich
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Shot placement is king. Adequate penetration is queen. Everything else is just angels dancing on the heads of pins. 
papajohn428
Member
All three of those Remington FBI loads were recovered from wetpack, both donuts were within a half inch of the center shaft, which penetrated just a bit farther before stopping. Penetration in wetpack was around 6", which translates to around 11-12" in ballistic gel. I can't find my notes to confirm that, but I'm pretty sure those numbers are close.
Where the hotel is my notebook?
Where the hotel is my notebook?
bassoneer
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I've never tried shooting into wet pack (I assume that is wet newspaper?)...only water-filled milk jugs. I think I may try doing that with those Buffalo Bores to see what they do. Thanks! B
pete950
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Yes he shot it through 4 layers of denim it penetrated 18 inches with next to no expansion. I'll just stick with the normal makers Win, Rem and Fed, and get 50 rounds for the cost of 20 rounds of the Buffalo bore.
photoman
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Pete,
I watched that video with interest. The opening segment tells it all. First shot, single action, was a hit. Next two shots, double action, both misses!
Heavy bullet, high velocity ammo may look good on paper but shouldn't be used if you can't control it!
Buffalo Bore .38 Special 158 gr Semiwadcutter Ammo Test - YouTube
Pigirondan
Member
Shot placement is king. Adequate penetration is queen. Everything else is just angels dancing on the heads of pins.
And, two holes bleed better than one.
Erich
Member
That's hilarious, Photoman.
Anyone remember THE LOAD? That slightly exceeded the Buffalo Bore numbers, but no one was claiming that it was anywhere within SAAMI pressure specs.
Yeah, but I've worked on cases where there were additional, unwanted holes in innocent bystanders behind the first one. That's to be avoided.
Anyone remember THE LOAD? That slightly exceeded the Buffalo Bore numbers, but no one was claiming that it was anywhere within SAAMI pressure specs.
Yeah, but I've worked on cases where there were additional, unwanted holes in innocent bystanders behind the first one. That's to be avoided.
Pigirondan
Member
Yeah, but I've worked on cases where there were additional, unwanted holes in innocent bystanders behind the first one. That's to be avoided.
I agree. But, more bystanders are taken out by misses than through and throughs.
photoman
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That's a shooter problem, not an ammo problem. Selecting ammo that will assure "two holes" is not the best policy in my book.
Pigirondan
Member
Naturally, you're right. That's why I find the Buffalo Bore standard pressure .38 Special 150 grain WC and 158 grain LSWC-HP adequate. (The standard pressure Buffalo Bore chronos faster than the usual commercial +P offerings.)
I was just adding some levity.
pete950
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I agree with you on the wadcutter, but I haven't seen the non +P
tested yet.
Check out the new double tap full wadcutter load it's very promising.
Pete
Erich
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Which I could certainly use almost any day of my life. You're a good man, Dan.
ryanjames170
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what are the general specs for the 158gr FBI +P loading?
who loads something like that these days?
who loads something like that these days?
pete950
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158 gr Semi Wadcutter Lead Hollow Point at around 890 fps
Made by all major manufacturs.
photoman
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I would say 850 fps out of a 4" barrel. Manufacturers that come to mind are Federal, Winchester, Remington and Buffalo Bore.
Pigirondan
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Buffalo Bore is a bit faster. They list 979fps from a 4" barrel. I've measured a 975fps 5-shot average. YMMV. And, the difference between the standard pressure and +P load is tangible.
PeterCartwright
Member
This is the very best site for information on the ubiquitous .38 spl. Thanks, guys! I've recently been carrying a 64-6 I picked up from J&G. It was advertised as "very good +", and the gun which arrived at my FFL's bench was all of that. (If the gun had 500 rounds through it, I'll eat my hat.) I bought it as a shooter, but it's WAY nicer than that. Like my 10-5 (a 4" gun as well), this gun shoots precisely to POA. I still can't figure out how Smith does that with fixed sighted guns. The 64-6 is a DAO/bobbed hammer gun and its trigger doesn't quite match my 15-3 or the 10-5, but I think it will smooth out with some shooting.
All three of these 4" K frames do very well on paper with Remington's "FBI" load. And all three are so well behaved (in terms of shootability) that I guess I feel adequately armed for my rather unadventurous lifestyle. I'm not prepared to give up my P series Sigs, but I really like these K frame .38 specials.
PC
All three of these 4" K frames do very well on paper with Remington's "FBI" load. And all three are so well behaved (in terms of shootability) that I guess I feel adequately armed for my rather unadventurous lifestyle.
I'm not prepared to give up my P series Sigs, but I really like these K frame .38 specials.PC
photoman
Member
When a company builds (essentially) the same product for over 100 years, they get pretty good at it.
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