Isn't selling ammo for profit illegal without an FFL?

[Skunkhome]

Robyn Anderson bought three of the four guns used at Columbine from individuals. Because they were not purchased from a dealer, the transfer was not a "straw purchase" under Federal law.

She denied any knowledge of what Klebold and Harris had planned. There was no proof to the contrary.

Complicity in a subsequent crime is not necessary.
The very act in itself and transfering firearms to juvinale was a federal crime.
If they could have proved that she knew their dastardly plan she would also have been guilty of conspiracy to commit murder.

 

[rburg]

And to think that over the years I've bought old guns for my collection. And later when I get a better example, I've bought a table at a gun show and sold the earlier gun. And very often those old 1930s guns like Magnums that originally sold a $60. retail I've sold for $5,000. Now I see the true light and I should have sold them for original retail to you guys! Worse, the K22s that were only $20 back then now sell for as much as $2,000.

And I'm even as bad as the guy who was crying up above in this thread. One night a week ago my wife needed to go to Walmart. It was 10:00 PM, but I'm retired and I can sleep in, so I do as I please. After my wife piked up her stuff, we headed over to sporting goods. Of course no one in the store had the key to the ammo cabinet. But the stock boys were dumping boxes of ammo on the floor behind the counter! And the one helpful kind of guy who was trying to cover the department said he can sell anything on the floor, but only 3 to a customer. So I bought my 3 boxes of .223. And I don't even own an AR! But the rush was on and I got mine. Brought them home with me, too. And not a gun to fire them in. So I wasted my $15.76. They sat around for a week, then I just up and gave them to my youngest son. Bet if he had a zombie shaped target, he'd shoot them at it!

Now you guys have made me feel awful. I'm going to have a good cry over it.

 

[crofoot629]

OP, may The Man enter your life for no good reason.

Emory

 

[zzclancy]

Sure, lets get the BATFE involved in MORE.

Sure, couldn't agree more. Another Ruby Ridge and maybe a WACO. More BATFE involvement is not needed. I think with the bill's on the table in DC we will have more than enough involvement.

 

[chud333]

I agree with lets not be inviting the BATF into anything else,
as they could usually do a good job of "screwing up a one car
parade".

Chuck

 

[gregintenn]

Guess I'm pretty much alone on this. Thanks for sharing your opinions, guys. That's what I come here for; to learn.

 

[Side by Side]

There is NO "Gun Show Loophole". Selling "face to face" is part of private ownership of property. Many good people have died for you to have this right.

And may innocent have died because of people that shouldn't have a firearm, received one from the face to face, straw purchase or Gun show loop hole.What right do we have as americans to purchase a gun face to face? We have the right to bear arms,but to meet someone behind a building to purchase a handgun probably because the buyer can own a gun and the seller stole the gun,that not a "right" It's real and it's a problem that needs to be corrected.

 

[Big Fred]

And may innocent have died because of people that shouldn't have a firearm, received one from the face to face, straw purchase or Gun show loop hole.What right do we have as americans to purchase a gun face to face? We have the right to bear arms,but to meet someone behind a building to purchase a handgun probably because the buyer can own a gun and the seller stole the gun,that not a "right" It's real and it's a problem that needs to be corrected.

If, as you propose, that these "loopholes" are closed, just who do you think will comply? The honest and law abiding...PERIOD. The criminal will still get theirs somewhere. Remember proabition, how did that work out? How about illegal drugs, that's working quite well isn't it? It's nothing more than "feel good leglisation" and "we did something".

Use a little common sense and do a little thinking on this. Only HONEST, LAW ABIDING people will follow laws. It's always been this way.

 

[Warren Sear]

And may innocent have died because of people that shouldn't have a firearm, received one from the face to face, straw purchase or Gun show loop hole.What right do we have as americans to purchase a gun face to face? We have the right to bear arms,but to meet someone behind a building to purchase a handgun probably because the buyer can own a gun and the seller stole the gun,that not a "right" It's real and it's a problem that needs to be corrected.

I prefer to buy as many guns as possible face to face because the Gubmint has absolutely no business knowing what I buy or sell.

Since it is already against the law to buy or sell stolen property, and for felons to own guns, and to commit murder, do you really think they would give a flying aff about not complying with a legal gun purchase?

BTW, there is NO GUN SHOW LOOP HOLE!!!!!!! All federal, state, and local laws apply at gun shows the same as at a gun shop or in a newspaper ad.

I will type slowly, THERE IS NO GUN SHOW LOOP HOLE!

 

[Skunkhome]

It is my right to own and sell my own property as long as it is according to the law. I am now not permitted to make straw purchases, or sell, or transfer any of my guns to anyone I know to have a defect to their legally owning a firearm, to include juveniles (by federal definition), foreign aliens, felons, people under domestic restraining orders, a those adjudged mentally defective. As a responsible person I don't need proof of any of these defects, if I suspect they are so. A ban on "face to face" would hinder my passing my guns along to my children or grand children.
I think it is all an attempt to get a record of all legally owned guns so that over time gun confiscation can be implemented .

 

[Side by Side]

Face to Face sales are hopefully a thing of the past, people selling guns to unknowns, it's legal now, but how well do they know who they are selling a firearm to? You don't! IF have a conscience, selling your next gun face to face, the next morning, on the TV, there's the nice guy whom purchased your firearm to, and he killed his family! Now your the problem... You purchase a car, you have it transfered, you don't have to, but you want to protect your self, so you do. Your just afraid someone going to take your guns. When you do a legal transfer the goverment doen't know what you purchased, they know you want to purchase, it's the same background check the sheriff does for a carry permit, no different.

 

[blujax01]

Face to Face sales are hopefully a thing of the past, people selling guns to unknowns, it's legal now, but how well do they know who they are selling a firearm to? You don't! IF have a conscience, selling your next gun face to face, the next morning, on the TV, there's the nice guy whom purchased your firearm to, and he killed his family! Now your the problem... You purchase a car, you have it transfered, you don't have to, but you want to protect your self, so you do. Your just afraid someone going to take your guns. When you do a legal transfer the goverment doen't know what you purchased, they know you want to purchase, it's the same background check the sheriff does for a carry permit, no different.

So if I want to give my son-in-law one of my revolvers I have to involve the government?

Uh, no thanks.

 

[Old TexMex]

Face to Face sales are hopefully a thing of the past, people selling guns to unknowns, it's legal now, but how well do they know who they are selling a firearm to? You don't! IF have a conscience, selling your next gun face to face, the next morning, on the TV, there's the nice guy whom purchased your firearm to, and he killed his family! Now your the problem... You purchase a car, you have it transfered, you don't have to, but you want to protect your self, so you do. Your just afraid someone going to take your guns. When you do a legal transfer the goverment doen't know what you purchased, they know you want to purchase, it's the same background check the sheriff does for a carry permit, no different.

Excuse me, but that line of thinking is bizarre.
What if...I sold my house, the family moved in and an asteroid fell on the place and killed them all? That transfer certainly involves a government.... but does it save the family from the asteroid!? NO.
Let's use your example of automobile transfer. Does the registration system prevent the new owner from getting drunk or crazy and killing a busload of schoolkids? NO
The lie is that elimination of face to face transfers will save lives. And that is magical thinking.
The reality is that elimination of private property is an agenda item of gun control supporters, whether intentionally advanced, or supported by misguided liberals.
My conscience tells me that as a citizen of the United States of America, many many lives have been lost to preserve and protect the Constitution, and that I have taken an oath sworn before God and my fellows, to support and defend the Constitution. I have not relinquished my oath.

 

[Old TexMex]

Thank you for setting me straight, guys. Upon further searching, it is illegal to manufacture (read sell reloads) without an FFL, but you don't need one to sell commercially manufactured ammo.

Perhaps the IRS could make some of these guys sweat. It isn't easy getting new people into the shooting sports when ammo isn't to be found.

What is the insatiable desire to get the government involved? If I don't like someones sales method, I don't buy. What ever happened to accepting responsibility and standing on our own two feet...
My apologies for getting so far from the technical aspect of ammo. This is a 2nd Amendment issue, I believesss....

 

[gregintenn]

What is the insatiable desire to get the government involved? If I don't like someones sales method, I don't buy. What ever happened to accepting responsibility and standing on our own two feet...
My apologies for getting so far from the technical aspect of ammo. This is a 2nd Amendment issue, I believesss....

You are correct. My first instinct is to avoid government intervention into most anything. I guess I let my emotions get the better of me, and was thinking out loud.
I suppose this does bleed over into second amendment territory. It does seem that it would be harder to excersize one's second amendment right if once cannot get ammunition.

 

[gregintenn]

Face to Face sales are hopefully a thing of the past, people selling guns to unknowns, it's legal now, but how well do they know who they are selling a firearm to? You don't! IF have a conscience, selling your next gun face to face, the next morning, on the TV, there's the nice guy whom purchased your firearm to, and he killed his family! Now your the problem... You purchase a car, you have it transfered, you don't have to, but you want to protect your self, so you do. Your just afraid someone going to take your guns. When you do a legal transfer the goverment doen't know what you purchased, they know you want to purchase, it's the same background check the sheriff does for a carry permit, no different.

You've really gotten off topic here, and have went well beyond my bout of not thinking things through as well.
What if I sold that guy a car, and saw on the news where he got drunk and ran it into a busload of preschoolers? Is that my fault as well? Other than a car not being a guaranteed right, what is the difference?

 

[Big Fred]

Face to Face sales are hopefully a thing of the past, people selling guns to unknowns, it's legal now, but how well do they know who they are selling a firearm to? You don't! IF have a conscience, selling your next gun face to face, the next morning, on the TV, there's the nice guy whom purchased your firearm to, and he killed his family! Now your the problem... You purchase a car, you have it transfered, you don't have to, but you want to protect your self, so you do. Your just afraid someone going to take your guns. When you do a legal transfer the goverment doen't know what you purchased, they know you want to purchase, it's the same background check the sheriff does for a carry permit, no different.

Side by Side, Please answer me one question honestly. Do you really believe that if "face to face" sales are made illegal, and all sales must go through a background check, that it will keep guns out of the wrong hands?

 

[Side by Side]

So if I want to give my son-in-law one of my revolvers I have to involve the government?

Uh, no thanks.

Give it to your son in law, then a few years he sells it to another person face to face, a few year later that handgun is found at a murder, they trace it back to you? and/or that handgun was used on a close relative of yours. All they have is a handgun, can't trace to whom is was transfer to because your only thinking of your self!!! Your afraid of the goverment, and that is altering your life! Are you storing your money under your bed or in a bank?

 

[Side by Side]

Side by Side, Please answer me one question honestly. Do you really believe that if "face to face" sales are made illegal, and all sales must go through a background check, that it will keep guns out of the wrong hands?

No I don't belive all f to f sales are illegal. But I do know of many people who can'T own firearms look to purchase firearms from private people,because of that. I will not purchase a gun,unlesss myself and the seller will transfer, It may be stolen,who knows, basically the reason we all cash checks,do title search's before purchasing a home, transfer a title to a car.

 

[Big Fred]

No I don't belive all f to f sales are illegal. But I do know of many people who can'T own firearms look to purchase firearms from private people,because of that. I will not purchase a gun,unlesss myself and the seller will transfer, It may be stolen,who knows, basically the reason we all cash checks,do title search's before purchasing a home, transfer a title to a car.

Please re-read my question. You did not answer it.