Universal Background Check Alternative?

[EvilBetty]

I've been thinking about this for a while, and would appreciate comments and poking any holes in it you find.



How about every state ID and DL be required to have an enforcement for "legal to buy /possess a firearm". Removing this power from the fed and putting it in states' hands.

If you are invalidated for whatever legal reason, your ID is seized and reissued without the endorsement.

That would end the need for ANY background check, and end any possibility of a gun registry. FFL and private seller alike would simply need to check your ID.

The only hole I see in that is "oh I lost my ID" when it's being seized, and continuing to use it until expiration. But even if every state required 5 year renewal of ID's, that would still be more accurate than the current NICS system.

I haven't vetted this idea out obviously. Thoughts?

 

[Retired LTC USAR]

In Kentucky, if you have a CCW and you want to purchase a gun, just show the LGS your license and they do not have to run the background check. Apparantly KY checks criminal records every 30 days and cross references it to CCW licenses to ensure there is no reason to rescind it.

 

[Tex1001]

Feds would never go for a dilution or reduction of their authority. They simply do not want to delegate any authority to the states. Too much chance for state laws to be less draconian.
Also, in just makes too much sense.
_______________________
Boxers or briefs? At my age, Depends.

 

[Steve in Vermont]

Let me run this by everyone. On a radio show the other day a caller asked "why isn't the (firearm) registry open to everyone"? Want to sell a gun to someone? Call an 800#, just like the FFL. Thoughts?

 

[Geno44]

I've wondered the same thing about the stolen gun list. Why can't anyone access it?

 

[Whisper]

Read Tex1001's comment above. Gun control laws of all types are not about guns, and they're not about crime. They're about control.

HTH,
Whisper

 

[EvilBetty]

Read Tex1001's comment above. Gun control laws of all types are not about guns, and they're not about crime. They're about control.

HTH,
Whisper

Right, I get it. But I'm looking for real reasons why it wouldn't work for citizens that don't have a personal agenda to rid the United States of guns.

If we have a solution that works for everyone except the registration / confiscation folks, then get behind it and push... their illogical reasons won't have any weight.

 

[redlevel]

Let me run this by everyone. On a radio show the other day a caller asked "why isn't the (firearm) registry open to everyone"? Want to sell a gun to someone? Call an 800#, just like the FFL. Thoughts?

I would rather leave things as they are.

I ask, "Are you from Georgia?"

if affirmative, I ask, "Are you eligible to own firearms?"

if affirmative, I say, "Gimme the money. Here's the gun."

That is more than the law requires. I do not need a firearms registry. Why complicate things?

 

[EvilBetty]

Let me run this by everyone. On a radio show the other day a caller asked "why isn't the (firearm) registry open to everyone"? Want to sell a gun to someone? Call an 800#, just like the FFL. Thoughts?

This was actually my first idea. But I realized that the current form 4473 and ATF check would have to have to change for that to work.

Why do they need a form 4473 in the first place? Why isn't only a SSN enough information? If it was, then yes, anyone could call and give the SSN of the buyer, get a GO / NOGO, and move on.

The answer I believe is that the 4473 is an attempt to trap some persons into making false statements.

 

[Bartman3562]

Working at a place that sells guns, we have had people fill out a 4473, get delayed, and then the ATF calls asking for would be buyers info. Seems some lied on form, were not legal to own, and ATF used info to locate criminals they have been trying to find. It also adds ammo to use against criminal as filling out a 4473 and answering incorrectly is another crime added to their list. Fill out the 4473 with wrong answer, it doesn't even get called in, lie on it, and when called in, it is a crime. The major problem I see with the ID idea, is they can be faked and counterfeited. I hate the idea of a national data base, but at least you have to run it through one place and everyone goes through the same procedure.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

Stop thinking in terms of the GCA of 1968. Too many people have been brainwashed into thinking that government and government licensed dealers must be involved in the sale of guns. Believe it or not, life in America wasn't so bad before 1968.

 

[EvilBetty]

Stop thinking in terms of the GCA of 1968. Too many people have been brainwashed into thinking that government and government licensed dealers must be involved in the sale of guns. Believe it or not, life in America wasn't so bad before 1968.

GCA68 is by far the most restrictive for the law abiding, and the least effective on criminals, than any other set of gun regulations ever made law in this country.

 

[EvilBetty]

Working at a place that sells guns, we have had people fill out a 4473, get delayed, and then the ATF calls asking for would be buyers info. Seems some lied on form, were not legal to own, and ATF used info to locate criminals they have been trying to find. It also adds ammo to use against criminal as filling out a 4473 and answering incorrectly is another crime added to their list. Fill out the 4473 with wrong answer, it doesn't even get called in, lie on it, and when called in, it is a crime. The major problem I see with the ID idea, is they can be faked and counterfeited. I hate the idea of a national data base, but at least you have to run it through one place and everyone goes through the same procedure.

What type of area do you work in? That's a different story than I have heard from most FFL's I've asked, that run 4473's. Most report almost no legitimate blocks, but tons of delays due to errors in BATF records, and information too closely matching that of criminals, causing sometimes days in delays.

I do understand that the 4473 exists to catch persons "making false statements", because a background check could be ran off ONLY your SSN. All of that other information serves no purpose, unless it's already on record in NICS. POB and race, maybe, and probably used to confirm identity, but the rest is utter garbage.

So back to the 800 number idea. The 4473 form could be eliminated, and the process greatly simplified. A state office could setup 800 number in which you call and give the DL number. It confirms the information on the ID and the persons status, eliminating the need for and endorsement on the ID and adding (some) protection against fake ID.

If someone is going through the trouble to make a fake home state ID good enough to fool a person who has a similar ID to compare to, they probably have other means of getting that gun anyway.

 

[redlevel]

The 4473 form could be illuminated

??
eliminated?
??

 

[EvilBetty]

??
eliminated?
??

Damn spell check. Fixed

 

[vikgorr]

I've been thinking about this for a while, and would appreciate comments and poking any holes in it you find.
How about every state ID and DL be required to have an enforcement for "legal to buy /possess a firearm". Removing this power from the fed and putting it in states' hands.

Funny, I was thinking about it today.
Only I would go simpler and farther. Every time DL or ID is issued to a person, the right of this person to vote gets recorded on DL or ID. This would save money on voter's registration, and would clearly establish citizenship (with proof provided) eliminating election fraud (we would be able to finally really elect somebody we vote for) . What about guns, well, if I have the right to vote I certainly have the right to own any gun I wish. Would not you agree?

 

[EvilBetty]

Funny, I was thinking about it today.
Only I would go simpler and farther. Every time DL or ID is issued to a person, the right of this person to vote gets recorded on DL or ID. This would save money on voter's registration, and would clearly establish citizenship (with proof provided) eliminating election fraud (we would be able to finally really elect somebody we vote for) . What about guns, well, if I have the right to vote I certainly have the right to own any gun I wish. Would not you agree?

Yes. I think I understand a lot of persons dislike of a state ID system, I personally don't have a problem with it. To me it seems the state already has this information anyway if you own a house or a car. Requiring state ID to prove you are a legal citizen doesn't bother me. I now though, don't like my original ID of a "legal" endorsement, because it's not universal. It singles out a group of citizens that have committed crime in the past, but very well may have atoned for that crime and should have no further persecution for it.

To make it work, the law would have to be changed to only prohibit persons currently wanted for a crime. The mentally incompetent judgement also bothers me, because I see so much news of people being declared incompetent for temporary depression, or minor social disorders, and then having to pay and fight for too long to get their rights restored.

 

[liljohn]

We have a state issues ID, its your cc permit and states abuse the allowance of it. Look into NY or NJ. i think NJ actual has a state issue gun purchaser allowance card. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_New_Jersey

I am not sure I want to go down that route. I am assumed innocent until proven guilty, I don't need to prove I am innocent with an ID.



If we did the state id would need to allow me to purchase a rifle or pistol in another state. It would also need to allow me to carry in another state. The Manchin Toomey legislation had a few good pieces in it but went to far with background checks and not far enough with a national cc permit.



Thoughts?



~lj


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[EvilBetty]

Agreed, there is a bill out now to amend interstate commerce to allow cross state purchase of guns (FFL).

http://smith-wessonforum.com/2nd-am...-firearms-interstate-commerce-reform-act.html

 

[SMSgt]

I don't want to pay for reissue of every ID/DL in the state just to annotate whether I can buy a gun. In the long run, it will be no different that the current system--someone constantly checking your status and updating the "system."