Amazed by folks who think $$$ make them better shots

[gunny4053]

I am continually amazed by people who think spending more money makes them better shots. I know a guy locally who just spent a bunch of cash on an OR and accessories. He's shot it maybe twice and traded it off at a huge lose, because he zeroed it and the next time he went shooting, it appeared the zero was off. Never had someone else try it, never had someone check the scope and mounts, just decided because he couldn't hit water when falling out of a boat that it had to be the rifle. I've watched him shoot on several occasions and can tell you, a basic rifle marksmanship course wouldn't hurt. Myself and others have tried to help, but it seems lost on him. He is just one of those folks that thinks spending a lot will make you a better shot, but I'm convinced a lack of basic skills won't make an expensive firearm shoot any better than an inexpensive one.

Sorry, I was just compelled to wonder about some peoples logic.

Good Luck and good shooting.

 

[Carrot]

It's the same way with skiing or any other skilled activity. I oftentimes tell people that a private ski lesson is the best accessory to get every season.

 

[Mcwsky09]

I suppose when people hear that xyz combination of firearm and parts is capable of 1" groups at 100 yards it doesn't occur to them that the assembly, proper zero, and the operator all come into play and that the equipment does not make the operator a 1" shooter but rather the equipment enables a 1" shooter to perform to his or her level of ability.

That said I am having a heck of a time zeroing my AR but have had some challenges getting acces to the necessary range time and rest etc to do it proplerly. Compared to my wife's 10/22 which is setup such that I can hit multiple consecutive 1/2" target at 15 feet and have hit 2" steel targets with it at 50 yards.
I think part of my trouble may also be taking too much gear to the range instead of focusing on one thing. Also doesn't help that zeroing at home I am limited to about 15 feet, At the local indoor range to about 25 feet and the nearest outdoor range only offers 50 and 100 yard for rifle.

 

[cyphertext]

I suppose when people hear that xyz combination of firearm and parts is capable of 1" groups at 100 yards it doesn't occur to them that the assembly, proper zero, and the operator all come into play and that the equipment does not make the operator a 1" shooter but rather the equipment enables a 1" shooter to perform to his or her level of ability.

Exactly... you could put me behind the wheel of a stock car, but I am not going to win the Daytona 500. The car may be capable, but my skill is not at a high enough level to make the car perform optimally.

That said I am having a heck of a time zeroing my AR but have had some challenges getting acces to the necessary range time and rest etc to do it proplerly. Compared to my wife's 10/22 which is setup such that I can hit multiple consecutive 1/2" target at 15 feet and have hit 2" steel targets with it at 50 yards.
I think part of my trouble may also be taking too much gear to the range instead of focusing on one thing. Also doesn't help that zeroing at home I am limited to about 15 feet, At the local indoor range to about 25 feet and the nearest outdoor range only offers 50 and 100 yard for rifle.

Start a new thread on this... some may be able to help you out.

 

[RDFabsRep]

Couple buddies and I took a training class on Sunday, geared towards concealed carry. Older gentleman--who showed up in a Porsche Panamera--was shooting this high-dollar Kimber piece. Poor guy had jam, after jam, after jam.

My one buddy and I--with a Smith and a Glock between us--had every single shot go off without a hiccup. The other buddy, well...his Beretta had it's fair share of issues

 

[JaPes]

Couple buddies and I took a training class on Sunday, geared towards concealed carry. Older gentleman--who showed up in a Porsche Panamera--was shooting this high-dollar Kimber piece. Poor guy had jam, after jam, after jam.



My one buddy and I--with a Smith and a Glock between us--had every single shot go off without a hiccup. The other buddy, well...his Beretta had it's fair share of issues

The problem that guy had is choosing the wrong tool for the job. High end tight clearance firearms have the potential to shoot nice tight bullseye groups for bragging rights, but at a cost. Tighter clearances means that more things have to be just right for things to work right.

To bring this into M&P 15 context... It's like the guy who wants to shoot past 100 yards for sub-MOA groups and wonders why he can't do it with a premium red dot or holographic sight. Wrong tool for the job.

 

[gm272gs]

Having a firearm makes you a marksman just like having a guitar makes you a musician.

 

[Old 44 Guy]

I've been in a lot of hunting camps where the old timer with a 30-30 brought in the most meat.

 

[coltle6920]

I see the same thing on the golf course.I think my wardrobe is one notch above Bill Murray's.The ball doesn't care how much my pants or shirt cost.

A little off topic...I guess you had to be there to appreciate it.

 

[AR-Getsome]

It does take $$$ to get better...for the ammo to shoot to get yourself better. Jus sayin. I still do not have any optics for my rifles. I shoot very well with iron sights, even out to 200 yards. It gets me when a new shooter posts and wants the best optics, the best quad rail, the best fcg....etc. I always tell my friends new to the AR platform, just shoot the Snot out of it then see what you might want to upgrade.

 

[smutt]

I shoot my AR's and M1A's out to 600 yds with iron match sights, no problem. Practice, position, and reading the wind are a must. And lots of practice, practice, practice.

 

[OKFC05]

In carry classes, so many show up with pistols that won't make it through a 5 shot timed string without jamming, I've adopted a "3 strike rule:" 3 jams and your gun is out. Then they have to use my M&P. Many are amazed that the M&P just keeps going, and going, and going, no fuss, no bother.
The most common question is "What have you done to it?" After all, their gun has been "upgraded" and still won't run...

One fellow had a perfectly good M&P 5" Pro he was bringing to IDPA matches, but was spraying his shots. I gave him my card and suggested taking a class, which brought a withering response. He "knew" from the internet the M&P barrels were bad, and had ordered a high-dollar match barrel, which would solve the "gun's problems."

Well, the match barrel had a very tight chamber, and turned the M&P into a jam-o-matic with his sloppy reloads. He took the match barrel to a gunsmith who gave it a "competition chamber" (jugged it out so it would feed anything). Now he complains that both barrels are obviously no good, since he still sprays his shots............
now looking at buying a CZ like he saw an IDPA master shooting. Sure, just spend enough money, it's always the equipment's fault...

 

[gm272gs]

I shoot my AR's and M1A's out to 600 yds with iron match sights, no problem. Practice, position, and reading the wind are a must. And lots of practice, practice, practice.

I bow to your mastery, then.
Unless of course you measure your groups in yards, as well.

 

[PersDef]

I suppose when people hear that xyz combination of firearm and parts is capable of 1" groups at 100 yards it doesn't occur to them that the assembly, proper zero, and the operator all come into play and that the equipment does not make the operator a 1" shooter but rather the equipment enables a 1" shooter to perform to his or her level of ability.

The phrase "it's not the arrow, it's the Indian" would seem to be an appropriate response...

 

[thecatch8]

In carry classes, so many show up with pistols that won't make it through a 5 shot timed string without jamming, I've adopted a "3 strike rule:" 3 jams and your gun is out. Then they have to use my M&P. Many are amazed that the M&P just keeps going, and going, and going, no fuss, no bother.
The most common question is "What have you done to it?" After all, their gun has been "upgraded" and still won't run...

One fellow had a perfectly good M&P 5" Pro he was bringing to IDPA matches, but was spraying his shots. I gave him my card and suggested taking a class, which brought a withering response. He "knew" from the internet the M&P barrels were bad, and had ordered a high-dollar match barrel, which would solve the "gun's problems."

Well, the match barrel had a very tight chamber, and turned the M&P into a jam-o-matic with his sloppy reloads. He took the match barrel to a gunsmith who gave it a "competition chamber" (jugged it out so it would feed anything). Now he complains that both barrels are obviously no good, since he still sprays his shots............
now looking at buying a CZ like he saw an IDPA master shooting. Sure, just spend enough money, it's always the equipment's fault...

Agreed....here is my last range session using my 40. 800 rounds and counting and not one jam, FFF, FFE!

 

[gunny4053]

I've been in a lot of hunting camps where the old timer with a 30-30 brought in the most meat.

Must have been my Uncle. He owned many high end rifles, but the one that always paid off on a hunt was his Winchester model 94.

 

[cs45pilot]

Got a lesson on the subject myself first hand. Shooting NRA Bullyseye with my model 41 and getting a pretty good average, I decided to purchase a "better" target 22. I picked up a Walther GSP Expert priced north of $2k. Surprise. My average didn't move a bit. Lesson learned.

 

[gunny4053]

In carry classes, so many show up with pistols that won't make it through a 5 shot timed string without jamming, I've adopted a "3 strike rule:" 3 jams and your gun is out. Then they have to use my M&P. Many are amazed that the M&P just keeps going, and going, and going, no fuss, no bother.
The most common question is "What have you done to it?" After all, their gun has been "upgraded" and still won't run...

One fellow had a perfectly good M&P 5" Pro he was bringing to IDPA matches, but was spraying his shots. I gave him my card and suggested taking a class, which brought a withering response. He "knew" from the internet the M&P barrels were bad, and had ordered a high-dollar match barrel, which would solve the "gun's problems."

Well, the match barrel had a very tight chamber, and turned the M&P into a jam-o-matic with his sloppy reloads. He took the match barrel to a gunsmith who gave it a "competition chamber" (jugged it out so it would feed anything). Now he complains that both barrels are obviously no good, since he still sprays his shots............
now looking at buying a CZ like he saw an IDPA master shooting. Sure, just spend enough money, it's always the equipment's fault...

I believe your guy and my guy are related. He's bought, sold, or traded no less than 12 firearms in the last 9 months. Every one that has gone away, has departed because it just didn't shoot right or wasn't very accurate.
I'm sorry, but if you can't hit some kind of target with Remington 700's, Ruger SP101's and Blackhawks, M&P 15 OR with Burris scope, Glocks, Charter Arms Bull Dogs, or 1911's, there are bigger problems in the world. You'd think at some point he would consider the operator as problematic, as opposed to the equipment. We all live in our world I guess.

 

[gen3guy]

I have a nephew who is so impatient that if he can't hit the X ring on the first shot he will trade the gun for "something better". His opinion of "better" leaves a lot more questions unanswered as well.

 

[tompehret]

Got a lesson on the subject myself first hand. Shooting NRA Bullyseye with my model 41 and getting a pretty good average, I decided to purchase a "better" target 22. I picked up a Walther GSP Expert priced north of $2k. Surprise. My average didn't move a bit. Lesson learned.

Back in the early 90's I really got into IPSC shooting. Never got past being C-class, but had a lot of fun. I had 2 pistols upgraded. Cost me more than I could afford, each took a LONG time and by the time I got them the latest "mods" were old hat (according to the local experts). I went to using a stock Combat Commander in a concealment holster. Didn't shoot any worse or better; had a lot more fun.