I would not put it past them!

[Protected One]

Thanks for the kind words!

--Andrew, @LawSelfDefense

Excellent read. Would love to have your views expressed on some other topics here in the forum!

 

[bmb96mus]

You haven't heard of "OCIYF!" ("open carry in YOUR FACE!") before because I made the term up as generally representative of these attention-needy childishly petulant little punks.

--Andrew, @LawSelfDefense

Lol nice job!!! Good read and well written

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[Law of Self Defense]

Excellent read. Would love to have your views expressed on some other topics here in the forum!

Thanks for the kind words, much appreciated.

I tend to avoid the forums, frankly, because I do this stuff--write books, give seminars, and blog on self-defense law and gun law--for a living, and I can never be sure when a forum is going to go crazy being I haven't signed up for some kind of "commercial license" on their site.

Most forums appreciate my posts, but others just see me as taking $$$ out of their pocket for not paying "commercial," and there are simply too many forums for me to keep them all straight.

I respect each forum's rules--it's their home, I'm a guest--but it's just too hard to constantly remember what those rules are for the 100 or so gun forums I might participate in from time to time.

And it's simply not financially feasible to pay for "commercial" membership at a 100 forums, any one of which I might post on maybe once every few months.

So, that's the deal with that.

But I got a pingback today on the thread here, so I thought I'd drop in and say "hello".

--Andrew, @LawSelfDefense

 

[Protected One]

Thanks for the kind words, much appreciated.

I tend to avoid the forums, frankly, because I do this stuff--write books, give seminars, and blog on self-defense law and gun law--for a living, and I can never be sure when a forum is going to go crazy being I haven't signed up for some kind of "commercial license" on their site.

Most forums appreciate my posts, but others just see me as taking $$$ out of their pocket for not paying "commercial," and there are simply too many forums for me to keep them all straight.

I respect each forum's rules--it's their home, I'm a guest--but it's just too hard to constantly remember what those rules are for the 100 or so gun forums I might participate in from time to time.

And it's simply not financially feasible to pay for "commercial" membership at a 100 forums, any one of which I might post on maybe once every few months.

So, that's the deal with that.

But I got a pingback today on the thread here, so I thought I'd drop in and say "hello".

--Andrew, @LawSelfDefense

I understand. Well feel free to stop back from time to time and read a posting or two. Who knows...you might see a subject that "is begging" for you to comment!

You obviously have a good rational command of the importance of the subject, and your input would be welcomed and appreciated.

 

[vigil617]

these two dipwads

QUOTE]

More like "wad-for-brains" if you ask me, but I do take your meaning.

 

[Law of Self Defense]

You obviously have a good rational command of the importance of the subject, and your input would be welcomed and appreciated.

Thanks!

Andrew, @LawSelfDefense

 

[Rastoff]

Is it just me or does anyone else think the @&& on the right should be arrested for brandishing?

No, I don't agree with that assessment. He is posing for a picture. Now, if he were walking around like that, then yes, brandishing.

I was told its my responsibility to find out if its "OK" to carry in an establishment and they do not need to post a sign.

No, this makes no sense. If this is law in MI, please post a link to it so we all can learn. If it is true, how are you expected to keep up? I mean, you'd have to spend hours and hours researching every store.

 

[bmb96mus]

No, I don't agree with that assessment. He is posing for a picture. Now, if he were walking around like that, then yes, brandishing.

No, this makes no sense. If this is law in MI, please post a link to it so we all can learn. If it is true, how are you expected to keep up? I mean, you'd have to spend hours and hours researching every store.

What's the law? That's what I was told in my cpl class

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[Rastoff]

What's the law? That's what I was told in my cpl class

I have no idea. That's why I asked you to post a link to the law. I mean, if you just think about it, it makes no sense and puts a tremendous burden on the gun carrier.

Be careful with what a CPL instructor tells you. If it were my class, I would tell you to not take my word for it, but to research everything I said. Often instructors give out wrong advice. This is why instructors carry "Professional Liability" insurance.

Here are some examples I've heard in concealed carry classes:

• You can't carry in a bank.
• You can't carry at the polls.
• You can't carry in a public park.
• You can't carry in a church.
• You can't carry more than one gun.
• You can't carry in a restaurant that serves alcohol.
• You can't carry in a school.

Now, listen very closely to this, all these are false in CA. However, in your state it may be different.

It is your responsibility to know the local laws. This is different than saying it's your responsibility to know if a particular place doesn't allow guns. See the difference?

 

[bmb96mus]

I have no idea. That's why I asked you to post a link to the law. I mean, if you just think about it, it makes no sense and puts a tremendous burden on the gun carrier.

Be careful with what a CPL instructor tells you. If it were my class, I would tell you to not take my word for it, but to research everything I said. Often instructors give out wrong advice. This is why instructors carry "Professional Liability" insurance.

Here are some examples I've heard in concealed carry classes:

• You can't carry in a bank.
• You can't carry at the polls.
• You can't carry in a public park.
• You can't carry in a church.
• You can't carry more than one gun.
• You can't carry in a restaurant that serves alcohol.
• You can't carry in a school.

Now, listen very closely to this, all these are false in CA. However, in your state it may be different.

It is your responsibility to know the local laws. This is different than saying it's your responsibility to know if a particular place doesn't allow guns. See the difference?

I know some states have to post a sign on the business window/door. Michigan, I was told that they do not necessarily have to post it. But for example chipole does not allow firearms in all locations. As well as kroger (one of our larger grocery stores) just because something isn't posted doesn't mean its not true. I'm not sure the penalties in all.states. for example I read in ohio if caught concealing a weapon somewhere that ur not "allowed" its a felony. I was taught it was our resposiblity to know if we can carry or not. Just like knowing any other law like u mentioned. I know u can't CC at homedepot or taco bell or burgerking or chipotle etc etc. Just because its not posted doesn't make it not true. I definitely think its an absurd. I dont agree. But I've never heard different. I will definitely research this. (Again this is what I was told in class. I understand everything someone says may not be true. However I think I have.enough common sense to fig out if some things are complete bull. Like some things u listed fpr example)

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[Rastoff]

Here's some help for your research: http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/michigan.pdf

Michigan looks like a tough state with some confusing laws. I didn't read all of them, but signs do carry the weight of law. That is not common in most states. The part I saw was that there has to be some reasonable communication. Personally, I don't see that requiring a person to have to dig through websites to find some obscure "rule" by the establishment reasonable. Even so, I'd not push that. If I knew or had an inkling that the store didn't want a gun in there, it would be prudent to simply not carry there. However, I wouldn't be paranoid about it. If I didn't see a sign, I would just go in. If asked to leave, I'd just leave.


Edit: I did not know the pdf would display that way. Here is a link to the main site: Handgunlaw.us

 

[bmb96mus]

From what I found, what I wrote is somewhat correct. Any business has the right to say no guns allowed in Michigan. Its not illegal to carry but if caught then they will possibly ask u to leave. If u do not listen u can be charged with criminal trespassing. We still have our list of "gun free zones" (this is what I was told in my cpl class, so instructor was correct)

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[bmb96mus]

Here's some help for your research: http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/michigan.pdf

Michigan looks like a tough state with some confusing laws. I didn't read all of them, but signs do carry the weight of law. That is not common in most states. The part I saw was that there has to be some reasonable communication. Personally, I don't see that requiring a person to have to dig through websites to find some obscure "rule" by the establishment reasonable. Even so, I'd not push that. If I knew or had an inkling that the store didn't want a gun in there, it would be prudent to simply not carry there. However, I wouldn't be paranoid about it. If I didn't see a sign, I would just go in. If asked to leave, I'd just leave.


Edit: I did not know the pdf would display that way. Here is a link to the main site: Handgunlaw.us

Yes I agree with u. If there's a store who doeant want me carrying, then I will go somewhere who does support it. No homedepot so I shop at lowes!

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[gfy1960]

"for example I read in ohio if caught concealing a weapon somewhere that ur not "allowed" its a felony."
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I will have to verify, but I believe in Ohio you may enter anywhere that is not posted with signage (except those areas specifically stated in the ORC). If you are asked to leave and don't, then you are trespassing. If you are not approached and asked then you are within your right to be there. This does not mean they won't call the police without saying anything to you.

Update:ORC.2923.126 Duties of licensed individual.
(3)

(a) Except as provided in division (C)(3)(b) of this section, the owner or person in control of private land or premises, and a private person or entity leasing land or premises owned by the state, the United States, or a political subdivision of the state or the United States, may post a sign in a conspicuous location on that land or on those premises prohibiting persons from carrying firearms or concealed firearms on or onto that land or those premises. Except as otherwise provided in this division, a person who knowingly violates a posted prohibition of that nature is guilty of criminal trespass in violation of division (A)(4) of section 2911.21 of the Revised Code and is guilty of a misdemeanor of the fourth degree. If a person knowingly violates a posted prohibition of that nature and the posted land or premises primarily was a parking lot or other parking facility, the person is not guilty of criminal trespass in violation of division (A)(4) of section 2911.21 of the Revised Code and instead is subject only to a civil cause of action for trespass based on the violation.

 

[Donn]

Open carry is an acquired taste, especially for those NOT used to seeing firearms openly displayed or those simply ignorant of firearms carry and usage. That said, as far as I'm concerned, anyone walking into a public establishment with an exposed AR/AK/etc. is an idiot looking for trouble. Prove your point some other way, or expect to get hassled. Not right, but just the way it is.

I don't feel safe around various people at my membership-only club/range, so I'm not going to be comfortable next to some random person in the booth next to me with his rifle propped up. I'd simply leave and go elsewhere.

^^^ This ^^^ I can count the people I trust with firearms on one hand. I see a pair like the "Chipotle Twins" enter a place, I'm heading for the nearest exit. I don't know these guys, their level of training, or, most importantly, their intentions.

 

[Protected One]

No, I don't agree with that assessment. He is posing for a picture. Now, if he were walking around like that, then yes, brandishing.

Agreed. Here in Michigan, brandishing definition includes the words "in a threatening manner". He is obviouslly not threatening anyone...and just as obviouslly - he's immature.

 

[Protected One]

No, this makes no sense. If this is law in MI, please post a link to it so we all can learn. If it is true, how are you expected to keep up? I mean, you'd have to spend hours and hours researching every store.

Again, agreed. Posted "no guns" signs do not carry the force of law in Michigan but, if discovered to be CC and asked to leave you must do so or you are considered trespasing.

 

[bmb96mus]

Again, agreed. Posted "no guns" signs do not carry the force of law in Michigan but, if discovered to be CC and asked to leave you must do so or you are considered trespasing.

I'm glad I know now. That's why I love this site. Very friendly knowledgeable people. I do not claim to know it all and I want to continue to learn. Thanks!

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[Rastoff]

Again, agreed. Posted "no guns" signs do not carry the force of law in Michigan but, if discovered to be CC and asked to leave you must do so or you are considered trespasing.

According to the Handgunlaw.us site, posted "No Guns" signs do carry the weight of law. If that is wrong, we need to let Garry know so he can update the Handgunlaw site.

Do you have a link to the MI law that says that signs don't have the force of law? It's more likely that there is a law allowing "no guns" signs. Hmmm, I'll so some research too and see what the Internet can tell me as well.

 

[bmb96mus]

According to the Handgunlaw.us site, posted "No Guns" signs do carry the weight of law. If that is wrong, we need to let Garry know so he can update the Handgunlaw site.

Do you have a link to the MI law that says that signs don't have the force of law? It's more likely that there is a law allowing "no guns" signs. Hmmm, I'll so some research too and see what the Internet can tell me as well.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...2ICIAg&usg=AFQjCNGqCDZL3_sAD5kscw1xPTTLzh_5oA

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