9mm Sheild issues

[wicat3]

Hey guys. I sold a sigma 40 for a new shield in 9mm. Got home cleaned it and then put a few magizines through it. First impressions were the magizines I can not load them to full capacity, Im sure its just because there new.

The issues I have run into and need some advice on. First I find the only way to work the slide release is to pull the slide back with one hand and then work the slide release lever. Is this normal?

Next comes one FTE but more importantly not fully going into battery! I found at least 3 times having to push the slide forward and into battery before I could fire the shield. This cant be normal, is it?

 

[66snub]

Sounds like the gun is still stiff. Shoot it some more and see if it smooths out. It should with use.

 

[AR-Getsome]

If you do not have an empty magazine in the pistol, yes you have to manually manipulate the slide lock. What ammo are you using? New or reloads?

 

[wicat3]

I'm shooting white box Winchesters. As for the slide lock I have to two hand it even with a magazine in the pistol. I can understand having to break the gun in and all but I don't see how the slide lock would break in? I could be wrong but Im just not seeing it breaking in

 

[AR-Getsome]

My shield was and still is flawless since I got it new. It runs like a champ. Most owners of the shield have had to shoot the snot out of it to help break it in. Try leaving the slide locked open for a few days (unless its your SD gun) to ease the pressure from the recoil spring. Try that if you cannot shoot a lot of ammo. Hope this helps. There will be other members that will chime in to give you advice.

 

[Atticaz]

It's not a slide release on the Shield. It's a slide stop only. Check your manual. You have to slingshot the slide. If you are strong, it's possible to release the slide using it. But there's nothing wrong with slingshotting it. I even did that with all my other full pistols.

 

[Rpg]

These are problematic pistols.

Most work great: enough don't to make them dicey at best.

Yours needs to go back to S&W.

Write a lengthy, detailed letter - on real paper describing your issues in detail.

E-mail is not the way to go here.

Devote the effort to do an old fashioned letter.


Send it return receipt requested , only to know they got it and you know who received it.

That way you have someone to correspond with.

 

[macski222]

The issues I have run into and need some advice on. First I find the only way to work the slide release is to pull the slide back with one hand and then work the slide release lever. Is this normal?

Next comes one FTE but more importantly not fully going into battery! I found at least 3 times having to push the slide forward and into battery before I could fire the shield. This cant be normal, is it?

Firstly: It's a slide stop and intended for that purpose alone. Also, it will wear in a bit and become easier to use if you do intend to use the stop as a release (which is not recommended by the manufacturer).

Secondly: Are you by chance riding the slide when you chamber a round? or possibly not bringing the slide all the way to the rear when slingshotting? If either of these are the case, it could be causing you shield not to go into battery.

Rule out the second section before you go down the road of returning it to s&w.

Lastly... field strip the gun and check the recoil spring for any abnormalities

 

[SoCalDep]

Oh. my. god. The advice on this forum often borders on lunacy!

First...How experienced are you with handguns? If you are fairly new, the Shield, and most other small size, duty caliber pistols will be a bit tougher to manipulate than a full-size duty caliber pistol. No big deal because it's still a great gun and a little practice will have you running it like a champ. Having a LOT of experience with the Shield and with training law enforcement, user-induced malfunctions occur at a much higher rate than with larger pistols. This just means a bit more training for the user and you will be good to go.

Of course, there could be a problem with your pistol. Some guns do have issues, and if, after proper use it still malfunctions, then send it back to S&W. I bet they will make it right. They recently did with my 342PD I had to send back for a canted barrel shroud.

Are these malfunctions occurring during firing or when attempting to load the handgun? I ask this because your post doesn't make it totally clear.

Secondly... Those who maintain it's a slide-stop only...What is your experience in the combat application of the handgun or in defensive firearms training? The lever on the M&P, Shield, and on most other semi-automatic firearms to include the iconic 1911 is there (among other things) to RELEASE the frigin' slide!!!!!! IF it wasn't, it wouldn't have serrations on the TOP of the lever!!! It's not the only way, but it is definitely "a" way... and if you want to argue fine motor skills, the TRIGGER is a fine motor skill. Landing a plane on the Hudson river or an aircraft carrier requires fine motor skills under stress. So yea...It might be a bit harder than caveman bashing heads in with a stick hard, but we're firing a frigin' gun, not bashing heads in with a stick, so grow up, train, and learn how to use your damn equipment. How many competition shooters (who are by far the most experienced and talented with firearms) slingshot the slide? They DON'T...because it's slower, more inefficient, and hitting the slide RELEASE just isn't that hard if you actually practice.

The following is a picture of a Shield and an M&P compact. At the time this photo was taken said Shield has had somewhere between 14,000 and 18,000 rounds through it. I personally oversaw nearly 6,000 of those rounds and it has had many rounds through it since that picture:



We usually recommend that if the slide stop/release is tough to actuate to confirm the handgun is empty, lock the slide to the rear, and release the slide via the slide stop/release. Repeat this many times and it will eventually wear in. It was the case for most of my M&Ps (I have had six so far) and now they all work great.

As for the failures to feed (FTF), if you are allowing the slide to travel forward under spring tension rather than riding the slide forward (we recommend trying to "rip the slide off the back of the gun until your hand breaks away from the slide") and especially if the FTFs are occurring during firing (as opposed to chambering) then I'd send the pistol back. We had this problem for a while and it seems to be an extractor issue (may also explain the FTE - though not sure if you mean eject or extract) and S&W should be able to fix it for you.

Good luck...Beware of the internet. Hell...Don't believe me either. In fact, just send it back to S&W and sidestep all this internet BS.

 

[macski222]

SoCal,

FWIW armorers and professionals alike that I have spoken with and trained with have always advised to slingshot, as using the stop as a release can wear the stop out prematurely, causing it to not function properly in locking the slide open on the last round fired out of the mag.
Whether it will ever happen, or having it happen after 100000 rounds downrange, or 1000 even, who knows. But it is documented.

I wasn't advising not to use the slide stop on the basis of diminished fine motor skills (which could also be argued), but instead from a mechanical standpoint.

I've also trained with police departments, nra instructors, police academy, etc. Not once was anyone in attendance at any of them shown to use the slide release. Instead we were shown to slingshot and slingshot only. You may train one way, but there are many other ways of training out there. In the end, do what's comfortable for you, and what you are accustomed to doing in training.

There's certainly no need to get so up in arms with people on the forum because you don't like what you're reading when it comes to peoples advice. Everyone's got an opinion, some based on training, some on personal preference. There's no sense in denouncing peoples advice as lunacy because it's not what you agree with.

 

[SoCalDep]

SoCal,

FWIW armorers and professionals alike that I have spoken with and trained with have always advised to slingshot, as using the stop as a release can wear the stop out prematurely, causing it to not function properly in locking the slide open on the last round fired out of the mag.
Whether it will ever happen, or having it happen after 100000 rounds downrange, or 1000 even, who knows. But it is documented.

Where has it been documented?...Show me... Because I'm a certified M&P armorer and I've trained THOUSANDS of law enforcement officers on the M&P as well as other weapons platforms and in all the broken parts (and I've seen them from Sig, S&W, Beretta, HK, Glock - a broken trigger pin three days ago) and I've NEVER seen a slide release/stop worn to the point it wouldn't function appropriately.

I wasn't advising not to use the slide stop on the basis of diminished fine motor skills (which could also be argued), but instead from a mechanical standpoint.

I've also trained with police departments, nra instructors, police academy, etc. Not once was anyone in attendance at any of them shown to use the slide release. Instead we were shown to slingshot and slingshot only. You may train one way, but there are many other ways of training out there. In the end, do what's comfortable for you, and what you are accustomed to doing in training.

True...Which is why I stated in my previous post that it is "a" way, not "the" way. Stating that the slide release/stop should ONLY be used as a lock and not to release the slide is in fact contrary to your statement that there are many other ways of training out there. I have been to lots of training. I am aware of what is out there. I am also aware that those who claim one way is the only way are often lacking in exposure, experience, and training.

There's certainly no need to get so up in arms with people on the forum because you don't like what you're reading when it comes to peoples advice. Everyone's got an opinion, some based on training, some on personal preference. There's no sense in denouncing peoples advice as lunacy because it's not what you agree with.

Advice is one thing. Opinion is one thing. Stating something as fact when it absolutely is not is another. It's not just about what I agree with. I happen to prefer to overhand slingshot. That said, using the slide release is not an invalid technique. Stating the slingshot is the only way it should be done shows a lack of experience and breadth of training.

 

[macski222]

Not going to take away from the OP's thread with a back and forth debate. I will say that its called a slide stop and not a slide release for a reason. And nowhere in any m&p manual that I have ever read does it show the lever being discussed used as a slide release unless riding the slide off the rails to field strip. It does however show the lever being used multiple times for its intended purpose... stopping the slide.

As far as documentation, do a quick google search. Theres some stuff on the web. A friend of mine strictly used his slide stop as a release, and his glock will no longer lock back on an empty mag. He'll be replacing that stop before our next range day.

Anyhow, to each their own. Whether it be training procedure or viewpoints.

 

[SoCalDep]

Not going to take away from the OP's thread with a back and forth debate. I will say that its called a slide stop and not a slide release for a reason. And nowhere in any m&p manual that I have ever read does it show the lever being discussed used as a slide release unless riding the slide off the rails to field strip. It does however show the lever being used multiple times for its intended purpose... stopping the slide.

Great. You read the M&P manual. There is over 100 years of firearms training and advancement, largely due to competition, prior to the manual. The pistol has the same control placement and function as a pistol adopted by the US military in 1911 which has, and does, function as a slide release. As I have stated many times before...You can take the gas pedal of a car and call it the happy button, but it does the same thing as every other car out there and to say it functions different is the height of ignorance. You say it's called a slide stop for a reason...if that reason is that it can't be used as a slide release then please answer why they put serrations on the top of the lever... They could have saved the cost of machining but they didn't. I bet there's a reason.

I believe the manual also doesn't state you can disassemble the pistol by pulling the trigger and I bet there's also probably a warning about how dangerous it is to carry a gun loaded. There's a manual in every vehicle...Does it tell you how to drive?

As far as documentation, do a quick google search. Theres some stuff on the web. A friend of mine strictly used his slide stop as a release, and his glock will no longer lock back on an empty mag. He'll be replacing that stop before our next range day.

Serious?!? A google search? I just did one and the entire first page was by individuals and forums, which, by the way, was largely stating it wasn't a problem. What about experts? You said there is documentation...and I would assume (maybe wrongly) that it would come from some sort of reliable and verifiable source.

Your friend should check his Glock for the slide stop (more likely the spring than the actual part), the recoil spring, follower wear, and the magazine spring as well. The trigger pin that broke on one of the recruits on Thursday resulted in the slide locking back with rounds in the mag, so I'd have him check the pins as well as they can have an impact on the function of the pistol. Let me know when he's eliminated the other possible causes of failure to lock the slide on an empty mag.

Anyhow, to each their own. Whether it be training procedure or viewpoints.

Agreed... Just don't preach it as fact when it's not.

 

[macski222]

Face = Palmed

 

[SoCalDep]

Face = Palmed

Funny... That's how I felt when I read;

It's not a slide release on the Shield. It's a slide stop only. Check your manual. You have to slingshot the slide.

and

Firstly: It's a slide stop and intended for that purpose alone. Also, it will wear in a bit and become easier to use if you do intend to use the stop as a release (which is not recommended by the manufacturer).

 

[gc70]

The issues I have run into and need some advice on. First I find the only way to work the slide release is to pull the slide back with one hand and then work the slide release lever. Is this normal?

The slide lever (not taking sides by calling it a stop or release) is designed to stay up and hold the slide back if an empty mag is in the gun; the follower in the mag pushes the slide lever up. And the slide lever is designed to stay down out of the way of the slide if a loaded mag or no mag is in the gun.

Before sending your gun back to S&W for that issue, you might want to check the conditions under which the slide lever is or is not working correctly. First, eliminate variables and test each one separately. Start by removing both the magazine and slide from the gun.

• The slide lever should be in its down position in the frame. Push the slide lever up manually and it should drop down when released. This tells you whether the slide lever and its return spring are operating properly.
• Insert an empty mag. The slide lever should be pushed up and stay up due to pressure from the mag follower. This tells you whether the mag follower is properly engaging the slide lever.
• Insert a loaded mag. The slide lever should remain in the down position. This tells you whether some part of the magazine might be improperly engaging the slide lever.
• With no magazine in the gun, put the slide on the frame and manually lock the slide back. Pull back on the slide and the slide lever should drop down. This tells you whether the slide lever might somehow be binding against the slide or that you might not be pulling the slide back enough to release the slide lever.

 

[wicat3]

After talking to a few people that have the shield I found a few things that could be the issue. One is the ammo could be having some issues as others who have been using the white box Winchesters are having some issues with it when running there pistols.

The next is that I did not use a good lube and instead only oiled and cleaned the pistol. The FTE is eject. I don't think I was riding the rail but I will try it some more making sure im not riding the rail.

As for the slide stop, Im used to my glock where you can hit the lever and the slide comes forward. I have never had experience with a pistol where I had to sling shot the slide intentionally.

Im going to test out the pistol with some more ammo of a different brand and lubing it up good before I shoot it again.

 

[speedyquad]

i say stay away from tullammo steel case rounds...i have not had any luck in my shield 9 with them. i also had the same issue as you with winchester white box in my 40c. that is the only ammo i have had any issue with. i had two boxes of it, purchased at the same time, that had that issue. i have not bought any since, except one box for the shield 9 the day that i bought it.

 

[Lycan]

It's not a slide release on the Shield. It's a slide stop only. Check your manual. You have to slingshot the slide. If you are strong, it's possible to release the slide using it. But there's nothing wrong with slingshotting it. I even did that with all my other full pistols.

You are absolutely correct. It's up to each person to use it how they like but I can confirm S&W customer service will state that it is a slide lock and not intended as a slide release. I'm only conveying the gun's manufacturer's recommendation, if anyone has a problem with it they should contact Smith & Wesson to discuss the issue with them.

 

[SoCalDep]

You are absolutely correct. It's up to each person to use it how they like but I can confirm S&W customer service will state that it is a slide lock and not intended as a slide release. I'm only conveying the gun's manufacturer's recommendation, if anyone has a problem with it they should contact Smith & Wesson to discuss the issue with them.

Yep...S&W reps have also stated the slide was designed to automatically go forward when inserting a mag with force...and that the front sight was designed to be lined up with the dots and not the metal outline of the notch/post sights... and the manual says nothing about a perfectly functional and appropriate way to disassemble the firearm because the manufacturer doesn't want to encourage people to do something that would hurt its LE market share.

Anyone who believes a manufacturer's customer service rep can't be wrong has little experience with firearms and with customer service reps.

And I'd like to see S&W tell my agency, one of it's biggest contracts, that we're doing it wrong.

On top of it all, it would be extremely simple to design the part to prohibit the operation as a slide release...if it is in fact inappropriate to release the slide via the slide release/stop, it is a MAJOR flaw in the design of the pistol that an inappropriate act is so easy to accomplish.

Frank Proctor...18yr Army Special Forces and USPSA Grand Master...Doing it wrong?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bV3Qri0RR0

Larry Vickers class...He's a Delta Veteran, one of the best 1911 gunsmiths around (he knows guns), and I don't hear him yelling that they did this wrong...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Om0h162TwqE

Here's Travis Haley, a very combat experienced former Force Recon Marine... Is he doing it wrong?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJDp6x3FHsQ

Kyle Defoor, a former Navy SEAL, even puts an extended slide release (it's only serrated on top so if you tell me it's a slide stop you're just dumb and I'll disregard anything else you have to say) on his carry gun:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_AccnRORfg

Here's Rob Leatham...Check out about 1:35 if you don't want to watch the whole thing...though you should...but I guess he's doing it wrong too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9F7_8rxJrQ

I'd continue but I think I've made my point.

So...Who do we believe... these guys above or some un-named S&W rep?

If you want to learn to drive a car, do you call a Ford customer service rep or go to a driving school?

I'd say be very wary of what you see on the net...And in fact I'd recommend (it'll do you good) not believing anything you see in the above videos....Go train with THEM...the top people in competition and tactical shooting...and there's more where they came from. I've trained with three of the people in the above videos, so it's not just internet video kung fu.


Train. Make your own decision.