3rd Gen parts - I'm afraid we're on our own Gents

[kbm6893]

I don't agree. I work at a manufacturing firm and we have a 5 year warranty. If the customer buys a protection plan they can extend it. However, we only repair product we still have parts for. You cannot make parts forever and 20+ year old electronics are not available.

We keep a stock of parts but reasonably ANY company will run out of parts 10 years after a product is discontinued. When a product goes end of life, we look at the pool or users, make EOL parts purchases based on customer return history and the number of customers that purchased protection plans.

S&W likely did something like this for the TSW line. A lot of LEO users still existed, there was some production. Parts production continued and times were good for the civilian user. NOW that the EOL time period has passed MOST LEO are NOT using the guns and won't transition to new ones and the cost structures to keep support for a gun that is LOSING you money means you drop support.

They promised to warranty the gun on material defect and workmanship NOT promise to provide repairs forever. You guys who are complaining are NOT owed anything.

I have a few 3rd Generations, and I don't like it anymore than you, but it is the way the world works. NOTHING remains in production or supported forever. If you want a gun like that buy a 1911. Buy an OPEN design.

BUT you should buy a few now. That is the intent of the Microstamping and state firearm consumer safety laws to make make even 1911's unsupportable.

Electronics don't have the longevity of a firearm. Nobody expects sony to have spare parts for a 20 year old tv. S&w sold MILLIONS of these guns and most of them are still out there and working fine. They should keep making parts for these guns. Making frames? OK, MAYBE not those since I suspect they break very rarely, given the toughness of these guns. But springs, extractors, and other small parts should still be made

The 3rd gen guns are the only gun that offers hammer fired, manual safety, and mag disconnect in a metal frame. I don't want a plastic M&P.

The NYPD still issues the 5946. At least 10,000 of them in service right now. The 3953 and 908 in DAO are still being carried as off duty weapons. Then add in the millions of civilian owners. I guarantee you s&w is not telling big contracts like the NYPD that they are on their own.

 

[DanP7]

S&W stopped supporting the line even for a first owner. Last year they refused to replace a cracked frame on a 659. round count was maybe 2500 rounds. In the past they replaced our cracked frames with third gen frames but that's no loner possible. ^59's had less problems than the 669's which saw more than a few cracked frames.

Not replacing the frame on a 659 does not seem unreasonable

 

[DanP7]

Where is all this "news" about Smith no longer supporting 3d Gens coming from? Everything I've ordered from S&W in the last year has shown up (eventually). Just like ammo and parts for other guns, deliveries are slow, but do arrive eventually.

And the usual aftermarket suppliers are still in business. This morning I received an email from MidwayUSA saying that my backordered 4513/457 recoil spring sets are expected to be in stock soon. (Hint - Get your order in now if you need a set.)

Just to be sure, I just called S&W Customer Support and asked if 3d Generation pistols are still supported and the answer was "absolutely." The rep added that, yes, some parts deliveries are slow, but they're still coming.

Perhaps the people spreading the rumor are trying to buy some fine weapons on the cheap.

Looks like a bunch of rumors and heresy from an hourly CS phone bank rep than anything concrete to me.


Understood that there are some parts shortages.

This thread has become an internet / PR debacle.

People here and elsewhere are making gross assumptions, wringing hands, and swearing that smith will never get another dime from them (often from people who hadn't given smith a dime in the past 20 years in the first place)

Time to put on our junior detective stars, and get to work and pressure smith for some acknowledgement of the forward looking third gen policy and support roadmap. Smaller groups have done this for bigger companies and get results.


Let's, 1. Ascertain smiths's position, and 2. Demonstrate our value as a growing community of visible customers. This handwringing by us has gone on long enough IMO

 

[Brandon0413]

I had trouble getting a guide rod for my 4506, but s&w replaced it when I sent it in a few weeks ago. I bought one for my 3953, but they sent me the new style guide rod twice without the plunger. They finally sent me one of the old style ones. So, I have two extra guide rods for a 3953/3913 without the plunger or spring for the plunger if anyone's interested.

 

[Ascension]

Brandon I just picked up a 910 with the plastic guide rod and it has a small ding on the rim where it engages the barrel so I need a replacement rod. I am have a devil of a time finding a new replacement rod for it. That is finding both the stock plastic 910 rod or the metal rod for the 5906 and other 3rd gens that will drop right in. I feel your pain brother.
Everywhere I have checked shows out of stock and no backorder.
Dan I agree with what you suggest above as this was unnerving since I own several of these 3rd gen S&W auto pistols.
If it is this hard to find a simple replacement recoil guide rod for one of the most popular series in the entire line what would I be looking at if I had a real failure on my 10mm's and needed parts???

 

[Hill_Country]

I have the same springs on backorder (since Dec-2013) too but I haven't heard anything from them. I do see that they now show a 8/13/14 "expected" date for the inner spring but the outer still shows "overdue". I'm not holding my breath for them though.

I got a couple of sets of springs from Brownells just a couple of months ago so don't give up. (Of course, Brownells price was twice what MidwayUSA is selling them for. <G>)

I suspect that much of the shortage is caused by people like me who place backorders with the factory and two or three aftermarket suppliers. As soon as someone gets stock it automatically ships and many people end up with several times as many parts as they really need.

If this problem ever works itself out, there should be enough repair parts in circulation to keep the Third Gens running forever. <G>

I like the idea of getting together as a group and finding out exactly what Smith intends to do with the Third Gens. Perhaps the interest might encourage an aftermarket supplier to make a commitment to supporting all repair parts and not just those with a high turnover.

 

[RobsTV]

Couple months ago, picked up a few new in original retail package S&W 4506 mags, not knowing they had yellow follower. No problem, as I thought there was a recall with yellow followers, and expected S&W to replace these unused mags with later version. The S&W rep almost laughed at me. They explained that they stopped producing ALL 3rd gen replacement parts, and have no intention of re-starting production on any of it. No, they will not replace the yellow follower mags, as they have nothing left to replace them with! (although he explained that they are safe to use). Asked about what that means for future support for my 4506-1, and rep stated that if they get lucky and find a part buried away on a tech's bench, they might be able to repair it. But rep explained that most likely parts will not be found, and they will offer a later model substitution firearm to replace the 4506-1 with, provided I have "verifiable proof of original purchase ownership". This rep was on the phone with me for around 20 minutes, and went and verified with other reps what current status is. Done deal. Have started the move to Ruger and Sig in some firearms already, as USA built and warrantied is getting slim. S&W still makes up the largest part of my collection, and the main reasons were made in USA and warranty.

Now for my 1970's era Radom P-64 9x18, no problems getting any parts from Poland. Guns are not like other consumable's, as many of us have several 100 - 150 year old firearms that still shoot and look like new today.

This is not a car or a TV that will be replaced because it has become outdated and obsolete technology. It is a chunk of steel, with few changes. Not asking for any free parts, just a line on being able to continue to purchase replacement parts, especially those known to wear out.

 

[kbm6893]

Couple months ago, picked up a few new in original retail package S&W 4506 mags, not knowing they had yellow follower. No problem, as I thought there was a recall with yellow followers, and expected S&W to replace these unused mags with later version. The S&W rep almost laughed at me. They explained that they stopped producing ALL 3rd gen replacement parts, and have no intention of re-starting production on any of it. No, they will not replace the yellow follower mags, as they have nothing left to replace them with! (although he explained that they are safe to use). Asked about what that means for future support for my 4506-1, and rep stated that if they get lucky and find a part buried away on a tech's bench, they might be able to repair it. But rep explained that most likely parts will not be found, and they will offer a later model substitution firearm to replace the 4506-1 with, provided I have "verifiable proof of original purchase ownership". This rep was on the phone with me for around 20 minutes, and went and verified with other reps what current status is. Done deal. Have started the move to Ruger and Sig in some firearms already, as USA built and warrantied is getting slim. S&W still makes up the largest part of my collection, and the main reasons were made in USA and warranty.

Now for my 1970's era Radom P-64 9x18, no problems getting any parts from Poland. Guns are not like other consumable's, as many of us have several 100 - 150 year old firearms that still shoot and look like new today.

This is not a car or a TV that will be replaced because it has become outdated and obsolete technology. It is a chunk of steel, with few changes. Not asking for any free parts, just a line on being able to continue to purchase replacement parts, especially those known to wear out.

Amen. And a new plastic M&P is not a comparable gun to a third gen in excellent condition, like mine are. If s&w was still making the 3rd gens, they'd sure sell for more than a new M&P

Ruger does something similar with the Six series revolvers. They no longer support them, but they'll sell you a new GP or SP revolver for cost, something like 350 bucks shipped right to your door. Imagine if they offered a new LCR for a Six? Not in the same league

 

[Hill_Country]

The S&W rep almost laughed at me. They explained that they stopped producing ALL 3rd gen replacement parts, and have no intention of re-starting production on any of it.

I don't doubt what you were told, but there seems to be a disconnect with what another rep told me the day before. The rep I spoke to said that with the exception of some "restricted parts" like frames, barrels or the like, they were continuing to produce repair parts and support the Third Gens.

Perhaps a few more forum members will take the time to make a call and report back with the question and answer. S&W customer service phone is 800-331-0852 or 413-781-8300

 

[DanP7]

Amen. And a new plastic M&P is not a comparable gun to a third gen in excellent condition, like mine are. If s&w was still making the 3rd gens, they'd sure sell for more than a new M&P

Ruger does something similar with the Six series revolvers. They no longer support them, but they'll sell you a new GP or SP revolver for cost, something like 350 bucks shipped right to your door. Imagine if they offered a new LCR for a Six? Not in the same league

If they had to replace my 3913 with a new gun, I don't think an M&P or shield would cut it on a feature equivalency basis. I think the pro series 1911 compact would be the closest thing.

I have concluded that if the features, fit, and finish of your average 3913 were desired in a 1911, you would be looking at a $1300 subcompact 1911.

That being said, I'd rather have a 3913 than an officers sized 1911. More reliable and I don't have to use any manual safeties if I don't want to.

 

[DanP7]

I don't doubt what you were told, but there seems to be a disconnect with what another rep told me the day before. The rep I spoke to said that with the exception of some "restricted parts" like frames, barrels or the like, they were continuing to produce repair parts and support the Third Gens.

Perhaps a few more forum members will take the time to make a call and report back with the question and answer. S&W customer service phone is 800-331-0852 or 413-781-8300

Keep peppering them with questions. Call them out on any contradictions. This will pressure them to hopefully release a statement in order to get everyone on the same corporate policy page.

With any luck, they will reconsider their position. Or at least part of it. (If the third gen support rumor is indeed true).

Complaining on here will get us nowhere.

 

[Mossy Pops]

Per my discussion with S&W rep

I don't doubt what you were told, but there seems to be a disconnect with what another rep told me the day before. The rep I spoke to said that with the exception of some "restricted parts" like frames, barrels or the like, they were continuing to produce repair parts and support the Third Gens.

Perhaps a few more forum members will take the time to make a call and report back with the question and answer. S&W customer service phone is 800-331-0852 or 413-781-8300

I talked to a S&W service rep several weeks ago in search of some recoil springs for a 4553 tsw. I was told that for now the production facilities were going full bore in support of the new lines of pistols but that when things cool down, they will again devote some capacity to 3rd gen replacement parts. He said that he has worked at Smith since the seventies and the 3rd gens are favorites of his too. I didn't think that I was getting the BS treatment. I felt more like I was talking with a fellow 3rd gen fan that had some knowledge of the way S&W was headed for future support.

 

[GaryS]

It seems that no one, even customer service at S&W knows if they are going to continue to support the 3rd generation guns.

I have no reason not to believe that the customer service guy told Mossy Pops what he believed to be true. I have no reason to believe that the CS reps that told people that support is ending believe that is true.

It would be nice if someone from the company would address this on a forum that is chock full of S&W fans. THAT would be real customer service.

I'm not holding my breath, though.

 

[Fastbolt]

It seems that no one, even customer service at S&W knows if they are going to continue to support the 3rd generation guns.

I have no reason not to believe that the customer service guy told Mossy Pops what he believed to be true. I have no reason to believe that the CS reps that told people that support is ending believe that is true.

It would be nice if someone from the company would address this on a forum that is chock full of S&W fans. THAT would be real customer service.

I'm not holding my breath, though.

Hey, right after you perform that minor miracle with S&W, see if you can get Glock corporate to give you an idea of how much longer they're going to keep making the older "gen3" models. (FWIW, Glock only recognizes Gen4 as an official designation, and refers to all earlier versions of their guns by date/feature changes.)

It's never surprising when I listen to a Glock LE dealer, factory LE rep or an armorer instructor tell me how they can't get answers from their company to any number of questions they're frequently asked by their customers ... including how much longer they're going to be making models other than the gen4's.

S&W isn't alone in this sort of thing.

 

[GaryS]

I'll be charitable and suggest that maybe it's because everyone wants to keep a competitive advantage.

Next time you talk to a Glock rep, ask them why "Glock Perfection" is now in it's fourth generation? Get back to me when they answer THAT one.

Hey, right after you perform that minor miracle with S&W, see if you can get Glock corporate to give you an idea of how much longer they're going to keep making the older "gen3" models. (FWIW, Glock only recognizes Gen4 as an official designation, and refers to all earlier versions of their guns by date/feature changes.)

It's never surprising when I listen to a Glock LE dealer, factory LE rep or an armorer instructor tell me how they can't get answers from their company to any number of questions they're frequently asked by their customers ... including how much longer they're going to be making models other than the gen4's.

S&W isn't alone in this sort of thing.

 

[M29since14]

Over the years they have revised the definition of "perfection" about three times.

 

[gtoppcop]

Gents,

I've been watching this thread for several weeks. I just came back to the Autos (5906, 4566, 915, 659, 645 and my pet 39-2) about 1-month ago.

Prior to that my time was spent recapitalizing my S&W revolver fleet (13-1, 65-3, 19-3, 66 no dash, 36, 10-5, RSR 66-2 and 627 Pro).

It worries me that the spigot of parts is drying up...kind of. Brownells and Midway don't have much in the way of parts for them. I wonder if it's panic buying by us folks. Many other forums have also said the same things. Perhaps this is like the ammo crisis we manufactured for ourselves.

I check ebay (under 5906 and 4506) and Numrich for parts. Jack First is also a good source. Many of you have given some very good points.

Yes, S&W is a business. Right now the $$$ they spend on 3rd Gen support is most likely taking them from the M&P line. CHP, NYPD, LASD, LAPD, WVSP and other agencies still use the 3rd Gens. They most likely wont shut them out entirely. They may be holding many of their parts for in-factory repairs of these guns. Who knows!? I think that if enough of us keep calling, their business management team may re-think (or at least pause) their current strategy.

By the way, does anybody have visibility on 3906 followers and mag butt plates. I need 5/ea.

Thanks!

 

[Fastbolt]

Just (finally) received some extractor pins that have been back-ordered for some time. My last miscellaneous spare parts order has been arriving in small bits, spaced apart by a month or more.

 

[vigil617]

Guys, the supplier that has offered to manufacture the recoil spring pairs for the 4513/4516 series, and which fit several other models, contacted me yesterday.

He has scheduled production of these springs for July 29. Following production, the springs will by cryogenically treated and also moly coated, and then will be ready for sale.

I do not have any pricing information yet, but when I do, I will pass it along to you. At present, I think you will be able to order these springs directly from him and won't have to go through a distributor, but that is a business decision that will be entirely up to him.

He has told me that cryogenic treatment results in springs that are good for tens of thousands of rounds, and will not have to be changed out the way the present springs should be. I will keep all of you posted on any further information I get from him on these.

 

[03Fatboy]

I'm up for a set for my 4513!!!